http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/09/21/vw-pulls-polluting-diesel-cars-from-canadian-market.html
"We have issued, as of today, a stop-sale order to our dealers in Canada for all the affected vehicles. That's pending resolution of this matter," VW Canada spokesperson Thomas Tetzlaff said in an interview Monday.
The move comes three days after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said half a million diesel-powered VWs had been programmed to bypass emission controls, except during emissions tests.
Shares in the parent company lost nearly a quarter of their value after Volkwagen AG said Sunday that it would stop selling the cars in the U.S. while launching an internal investigation into what went wrong.
The Wolfsburg, Germany-based company admitted to fitting its U.S. diesel vehicles with software that turns on full pollution controls only when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, the EPA said Friday.
During normal driving, the cars with the software, which the EPA called a "defeat device," would pollute 10 times to 40 times the legal limits, the agency estimated.
Literally very dirty of VW. They won't be able to blame this on a few bad apples.
Its stock lost over $17 billion today. The Environmental Protection Agency says fines could be around $18 billion.
500,000 vehicles may be recalled. I don't know if that'll cut it for customers. When these vehicles are "fixed" they're going to come back with worse mileage and performance.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
"We have issued, as of today, a stop-sale order to our dealers in Canada for all the affected vehicles. That's pending resolution of this matter," VW Canada spokesperson Thomas Tetzlaff said in an interview Monday.
The move comes three days after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said half a million diesel-powered VWs had been programmed to bypass emission controls, except during emissions tests.
Shares in the parent company lost nearly a quarter of their value after Volkwagen AG said Sunday that it would stop selling the cars in the U.S. while launching an internal investigation into what went wrong.
The Wolfsburg, Germany-based company admitted to fitting its U.S. diesel vehicles with software that turns on full pollution controls only when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, the EPA said Friday.
During normal driving, the cars with the software, which the EPA called a "defeat device," would pollute 10 times to 40 times the legal limits, the agency estimated.
This is the biggest case of industrial fraud I have ever seen. It's too big to have had some assistance from department's like the EPA or Environment Canada.
One in seven jobs in Germany is in the automotive industry. This news could hardly get any worse for Germany.
And, this is not their first offence of this nature.
One of their models had a manufacturing fault that caused the vehicle to accelerate unexpectedly. It caused serious and fatal accidents, one in Australia.
VW denied any flaw, despite several engineers confirming the transmission was faulty.
Only after the Australian government threatened to carry out a parliamentary enquiry did they admit and rectify...and this was only after the American and Chinese government forced a recall in those nations.
Volkswagen is NOT a nice company.
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
One of their models had a manufacturing fault that caused the vehicle to accelerate unexpectedly. It caused serious and fatal accidents, one in Australia.
VW denied any flaw, despite several engineers confirming the transmission was faulty.
Only after the Australian government threatened to carry out a parliamentary enquiry did they admit and rectify...and this was only after the American and Chinese government forced a recall in those nations.
Volkswagen is NOT a nice company.
Vehicle recalls are nothing new. The blatant tampering with safety or environmental controls is though. And like I said, they could not have pulled this off without help from government environmental departments.
Recalls aren't the issue.
Volkswagen denied the fault despite settling in 2 other nations.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/death-prompts-vw-owners-to-speak-out-20130530-2nexi.html
In other words, to avoid spending money on the recall in Australia, they permitted their vehicles to be driven on the road whilst unsafe, leading to at least one fatality. The company DENIED on oath knowing anything of the design flaw, despite that same flaw being the subject of forced recall in other countries.
Their sales in Oz have plummeted.
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Volkswagen denied the fault despite settling in 2 other nations.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/death-prompts-vw-owners-to-speak-out-20130530-2nexi.html
In other words, to avoid spending money on the recall in Australia, they permitted their vehicles to be driven on the road whilst unsafe, leading to at least one fatality. The company DENIED on oath knowing anything of the design flaw, despite that same flaw being the subject of forced recall in other countries.
Their sales in Oz have plummeted.
Toyota has been having the most recalls it would seem over the last few years. I never heard about this one. This is still different though than the emissions tampering. They didn't want to do the responsible act in Australia. This current is fraud. I would never buy a VW car, but now I agree with you that they are not a nice company.
Models affected by emissions scandal
2009-15 Jetta
2010-2015 Golf
2009-2015 Golf Wagon/Sportwagon
2013-2015 Beetle
2012-2015 Passat
Only those models equipped with the 2.0 Disell engine are affected.
Source: Volkswagen Canada
I liked the Jetta.
ac_unsure
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Volkswagen denied the fault despite settling in 2 other nations.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/death-prompts-vw-owners-to-speak-out-20130530-2nexi.html
In other words, to avoid spending money on the recall in Australia, they permitted their vehicles to be driven on the road whilst unsafe, leading to at least one fatality. The company DENIED on oath knowing anything of the design flaw, despite that same flaw being the subject of forced recall in other countries.
Their sales in Oz have plummeted.
Toyota has been having the most recalls it would seem over the last few years. I never heard about this one. This is still different though than the emissions tampering. They didn't want to do the responsible act in Australia. This current is fraud. I would never buy a VW car, but now I agree with you that they are not a nice company.
Toyota's recent recall issues were due to fraud as well. Executives and engineers at Toyota, for years even decades have consistently ignored US NSTB warnings regarding their unintended acceleration issues, breaking system failures and air bag installation flaws. In 2013 Toyota paid out a 16 million dollar settlement for violation of CA, consumer protection laws. Before that they were found guilty of hiding design flaws in their vehicle fuel systems and paid 10 million to a family killed an injured in a crash that was directly attributed to the acceleration problems their vehicles reportedly had for years. They Also agreed to pay 1 billion in damages to owners of Toyota products to compensate them for the loss of resale value of their vehicles.
BTW, Toyota still wins an ass load of awards and accolades year after year and their sales seem to be basically unaffected by the recalls and lawsuits. Why.....because the little slippery Japs all bowed nicely, smiled and said "me so solly" and the sheep who swallow all that bullshit about Toyota making a superior product, ate it up. :laugh:
All the hysterics and dramatics surrounding VW will pass. A violation of The Clean Air Act is hardly a blip on the radar compared to the way Toyota deliberately put peoples lives at risk, just so they could save a few nickles and dimes. So anyone with VW stock;.....you can clean your underwear, in a year's time this will be forgotten. In fact while the stock is swirling around in the bowl, it might be a good time to buy some. :thumbup:
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Volkswagen denied the fault despite settling in 2 other nations.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/death-prompts-vw-owners-to-speak-out-20130530-2nexi.html
In other words, to avoid spending money on the recall in Australia, they permitted their vehicles to be driven on the road whilst unsafe, leading to at least one fatality. The company DENIED on oath knowing anything of the design flaw, despite that same flaw being the subject of forced recall in other countries.
Their sales in Oz have plummeted.
Toyota has been having the most recalls it would seem over the last few years. I never heard about this one. This is still different though than the emissions tampering. They didn't want to do the responsible act in Australia. This current is fraud. I would never buy a VW car, but now I agree with you that they are not a nice company.
Toyota's recent recall issues were due to fraud as well. Executives and engineers at Toyota, for years even decades have consistently ignored US NSTB warnings regarding their unintended acceleration issues, breaking system failures and air bag installation flaws. In 2013 Toyota paid out a 16 million dollar settlement for violation of CA, consumer protection laws. Before that they were found guilty of hiding design flaws in their vehicle fuel systems and paid 10 million to a family killed an injured in a crash that was directly attributed to the acceleration problems their vehicles reportedly had for years. They Also agreed to pay 1 billion in damages to owners of Toyota products to compensate them for the loss of resale value of their vehicles.
BTW, Toyota still wins an ass load of awards and accolades year after year and their sales seem to be basically unaffected by the recalls and lawsuits. Why.....because the little slippery Japs all bowed nicely, smiled and said "me so solly" and the sheep who swallow all that bullshit about Toyota making a superior product, ate it up. :laugh:
All the hysterics and dramatics surrounding VW will pass. A violation of The Clean Air Act is hardly a blip on the radar compared to the way Toyota deliberately put peoples lives at risk, just so they could save a few nickles and dimes. So anyone with VW stock;.....you can clean your underwear, in a year's time this will be forgotten. In fact while the stock is swirling around in the bowl, it might be a good time to buy some. :thumbup:
Unintended acceleration is a lot more serious than emissions..
But, I didn't know this.
:ohmy:
Big, big drops on global markets today. I know this seems like a money sense post, but it is directly attributable to VW.
Quote from: "Herman"
The software was designed to fool government agencies. It's not as if the agencies skewed any tests or data. There's no reason or gain for them to do that. And we're finding out that this has been happening worldwide.
11 million vehicles now!
Quote
Volkswagen AG said Tuesday that some 11 million diesel vehicles worldwide were fitted with software at the centre of a U.S. emissions scandal, and that it is setting aside around 6.5 billion euros ($7.3 billion) to cover the fallout.
The company then admitted that it intentionally installed software programmed to switch engines to a cleaner mode during official emissions testing. The software then switches off again, enabling cars to drive more powerfully on the road while emitting as much as 40 times the legal pollution limit.
//http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/22/vw-11-million-diesel-vehicles-fitted-with-suspect-software-setting-aside-7-3-billion_n_8175598.html
Am I the only one who doesn't give a hoot about this? Give them their fine and slap on the wrist and move on.
I'm pretty sure there's going to be more investigating needed, especially considering that the fraud just jumped from 500,000 vehicles in the US to 11 million worldwide. Can't slap a fine and close the case after only a couple of days.
But that's what will happen in the end.
Quote from: "RW"
I don't see the big deal either. This stuff happens all the time and for issues that are a lot worse.
In 2014 Toyota recalled 10 million vehicles and paid 1.2 billion dollar fine to get out of a criminal investigation (unintended acceleration). Later that year another 6.4 million Toyota vehicles were recalled for faulty seat rails, steering column brackets, engine starters, windshield wiper motors and air bag cables. All problems that the US NSTB had warned Toyota about previously. That's a total of 16.4 million vehicles recalled in one fucking year.
In 2014 GM recalled 7 million cars due to faulty ignition switches that could result in an accident when the switch inadvertently would shut the engine down while driving.
WTF, this is an emissions violation and it will be rectified; all it takes is money. The resulting media attention being paid to this issue is dramatics and nothing more.
Why wouldn't there be media attention? It's a massive criminal fraud and VW has lost nearly $40 billion now.
Quote from: "RW"
Yeah, after the investigations are complete. These things take more than just a day or two. When's the last time a major criminal investigation was wrapped up after a day or two?
I understand there is a process. I just don't see a point in getting all worked up about it.
Quote from: "Renee"
I don't see the big deal either. This stuff happens all the time and for issues that are a lot worse.
That is a self contradictory statement.
This will be the straw that made the camel say "Fuck you. The whole car industry will be more closely scrutinised".
Deliberately, and with malice aforethought, another of the biggest car makers in the world has been caught committing a serious fraud on the governments in its market.
If you think this will not reverberate throughout the auto industry, leading to scrutiny and monitoring the likes of which they could not have dreamed of, you are crazy.
Not just 2, but the two LARGEST, have been exposed as cheats. Whilst governments will give the industry a pass for ONE rogue, it will not for two.
The auto industry has for years been denying flaws, failures and faults whilst drivers were killed or injured driving their crap. Now the two biggest are exposed as frauds, governments will have no option but to up the heat. As usual, all will pay for the acts of a few (at the moment, anyway).
Faults that harm people are one thing. Emissions bullshit is another.
Quote from: "RW"
The crime is less critical than the cause; deliberate, pre-meditated planning and design to avoid government monitoring.
Faults in manufacturing and design are part of the game. Its a price we pay for innovation and constant improvement. Manufacturers ducking their responsibility are as old as Model T's ("They aint nuttin wrong wid da brakes. Ya just gotta push ya foot down EARLIER").
But to sanction a specific design characteristic that has only ONE purpose...to avoid detection of a design imperfection...will not be so easily wiped away. And when its the world's largest manufacturer, which also includes Audi, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda, and of course Volkswagen (Das Ut-oh!!!), governments will be scrutinising all their makes and models as meticulous as a school ma'am on lice day.
This has ramifications for the industry. Not just ONE manufacturer.
If another one emerges as conducting itself in a similar way, there will be chaos in the industry.
And remember, other manufacturers who compete against VW will have spent considerable sums making THEIR vehicles compliant, assuming that all other players in the market will have done the same. VW's cheating also gives them a marketing edge by keeping their cost down.
I do not agree with the "Ho Hummers" in this thread.
This is going to be a massive breakdown of confidence between makers and governments.
Bottom line - we're going to pay more for cars.
No. We already PAY for this feature in these cars.
That's the point!!! VW are not avoiding emission constraints. They can fix that easily. They are cutting their costs to make more money.
This is a scam. Not a manufacturing snafu.
Either way. We will pay more.
Dramatics and that is all it is.
Who was injured?....no one. Who died.....NO ONE. Unless of course you are going to make the hysterical case that the environment was raped. :laugh3:
Some of you people (SPECTRE) need a serious reality check. Auto manufacturers and their subcontractors have been putting people's lives at jeopardy since Henry Ford's assembly line rolled off the first model T. This ain't one of those times.
Quote from: "Renee"
Who was injured?....no one. Who died.....NO ONE. Unless of course you are going to make the hysterical case that the environment was raped. :laugh3:
Some of you people (SPECTRE) need a serious reality check. Auto manufacturers and their subcontractors have been putting people's lives at jeopardy since Henry Ford's assembly line rolled off the first model T. This ain't one of those times.
Your ignorance of the passenger motor vehicle industry is understandable, given that it has been a long time since you were able to access one.
No-one needs to die for governments to get very pissed off at vehicle manufacturers. Volkswagen's deliberate breach of the law will lead to serious consequences.
Now, I understand your attitude. Being American, anything goes if it makes a buck. But countries with a stronger moral compass, like Australia for example, are less forgiving of individuals and organisations that put greed ahead of their legal obligations. You money worshippers will do anything or anyone as long as it feeds the gaping mouth of your ultra-capitalistic system and addiction to "wealth", and so probably quietly applause the actions of a fraudulent company as being "a good American". You certainly trained your post WW2 Deutsch flunkies well.
Fortunately, American values are not widely regarded in the civilised world. Your German kamarades will lose a ball or two over this.
Quote from: "SPECTRE"
Quote from: "Renee"
Who was injured?....no one. Who died.....NO ONE. Unless of course you are going to make the hysterical case that the environment was raped. :laugh3:
Some of you people (SPECTRE) need a serious reality check. Auto manufacturers and their subcontractors have been putting people's lives at jeopardy since Henry Ford's assembly line rolled off the first model T. This ain't one of those times.
Your ignorance of the passenger motor vehicle industry is understandable, given that it has been a long time since you were able to access one.
No-one needs to die for governments to get very pissed off at vehicle manufacturers. Volkswagen's deliberate breach of the law will lead to serious consequences.
Now, I understand your attitude. Being American, anything goes if it makes a buck. But countries with a stronger moral compass, like Australia for example, are less forgiving of individuals and organisations that put greed ahead of their legal obligations. You money worshippers will do anything or anyone as long as it feeds the gaping mouth of your ultra-capitalistic system and addiction to "wealth", and so probably quietly applause the actions of a fraudulent company as being "a good American". You certainly trained your post WW2 Deutsch flunkies well.
Fortunately, American values are not widely regarded in the civilised world. Your German kamarades will lose a ball or two over this.
Oh please, take your hype, hysteria and tired anti-Americanism elsewhere. You look like a fool. But that's nothing new. You've made a career of it around here.
VW will indeed suffer a black-eye over this but it will be short lived just as it was for Toyota who did far worse than circumvent an EPA law.
BTW you fucking coporlite, in this case, if it wasn't for the US and our EPA, the rest of the world would still think that there was nothing wrong with VW's diesel emissions. It was the US that made VW admit it was skirting OUR laws and standards, not Australia, not Canada, not the EU. Our gov was on VW's ass for over a year on this issue. Where was your vaulted government and their "moral compass" on this one? Too busy playing musical prime ministers I suspect.
So fuck off with that
I'm with you on this one Renee. In the grand scheme of things, emissions rank low in terms of big issues with cars.
Quote from: "RW"
That's because you aren't an Aussie douche canoe and you lack that higher moral compass. :laugh3:
Or maybe you have half a brain and you don't have one thumb in your ass and the other in your mouth like the rest of the feeble minded, lame-oids who are all ramped up about this crap. :laugh3:
Quote from: "Renee"
Oh please, take your hype, hysteria and tired anti-Americanism elsewhere. You look like a fool. But that's nothing new. You've made a career of it around here.
VW will indeed suffer a black-eye over this but it will be short lived just as it was for Toyota who did far worse than circumvent an EPA law.
BTW you fucking coporlite, in this case, if it wasn't for the US and our EPA, the rest of the world would still think that there was nothing wrong with VW's diesel emissions. It was the US that made VW admit it was skirting OUR laws and standards, not Australia, not Canada, not the EU. Our gov was on VW's ass for over a year on this issue. Where was your vaulted government and their "moral compass" on this one? Too busy playing musical prime ministers I suspect.
So fuck off with that
No, I must agree that it was the Americans who sprung the krauts. Well done.
However, America's response will be the key issue here. The krauts deserve a MASSIVE ass kicking over this, and anything less will prove my point; you can do anything you like in the US if it makes a buck.
Our "vaulted" government threatened VW with serious consequences if they didn't fix their transmission fault. They fixed it. VW also were compelled to make a public apology over their malpractice. Didn't help. You can't give those death traps and smog machines away here.
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-news/volkswagen-finally-apologises-poor-handling-dsg-drama/
"Volkswagen paid a high price for their attitude. According to figures released in early July, VW sold 1226 fewer cars than in the same period last year, a 19 percent drop in a market that has grown by 5.5 percent. Golf and Jetta sales were even harder hit, falling by more than 50 percent."
Quote from: "RW"
I agree with Renee too. But the size of the fraud and rigging is what has me shocked.
Quote from: "RW"
It seemed very serious when I read about it RW..
I don't know enough about cars to say..
I drive, but anything that happens under the hood is husband's area of expertise.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "RW"
It seemed very serious when I read about it RW..
I don't know enough about cars to say..
I drive, but anything that happens under the hood is husband's area of expertise.
... it's beyond most of us, Fashionista ... Q ac_smile
Quote from: "the shark hunter"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "RW"
It seemed very serious when I read about it RW..
I don't know enough about cars to say..
I drive, but anything that happens under the hood is husband's area of expertise.
... it's beyond most of us, Fashionista ... Q ac_smile
Turning wrenches is second nature to me. But then again, growing up on the farm you are operating equipment about the same time you learn to ride a two wheeler.
Quote from: "the shark hunter"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "RW"
It seemed very serious when I read about it RW..
I don't know enough about cars to say..
I drive, but anything that happens under the hood is husband's area of expertise.
... it's beyond most of us, Fashionista ... Q ac_smile
I don't even want to learn..
Anything with an engine around our house that has problems, I tell my husband and he fixes it.
... the news media is yet again putting hysterical support behind this just like they support most every other prosecution the united states government launches. their blind support for the obama administration is dumbfounding. but then it's all about the lawyers with the news media so what would you expect?
You "ho-hummers" may like to know that the US government will now be checking ALL diesel vehicles imported into the US.