THeBlueCashew

General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Gary Oak on December 04, 2012, 11:42:15 AM

Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Gary Oak on December 04, 2012, 11:42:15 AM
The next election may be a scary thing. Enemy of Canada and Canadians Trudeau and Welfare Mulcair being the front runners. I hope the Conservatives find someone good to replace Harper and I Hope Harper doesn't screw Canada substantially with his Nexen and chinese miners deals
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2012, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"I would think that similar sentiments would be felt throughout much of the Western world. Liberal Western democracy is not the best system to respond to the many challenges the West now faces.


QuoteCanadians are significantly less happy with the way their democracy works now than eight years ago, and partisan MPs are largely to blame, a survey has found.



Charitable organization Samara conducted the same poll in 2004 and 2012, gauging Canadians' feelings about the parliamentary system, and found a 20-point drop in satisfaction in less than a decade.



While 55% said they are satisfied with how our democracy works, that's down from 75% eight years ago.



And Canadians aren't pleased with the people they elected to represent them.



Most respondents gave their local MP a failing grade.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/12/03/20402551.html?cid=rssnewscanada

While most Canadians believe our democracy enables freedoms and equality, they're fed up with MPs who toe the party line at the expense of their constituents' needs and wishes.  

   



For example, 46% said their MP represents the views of his or her constituents, while 61% said they represent their party's views.



Samara also interviewed 65 former MPs anonymously, and found that most went to Parliament with their constituents in mind, but found their hands tied by party demands.



"Certainly, part of an MP's role is to explain the positions of one's political party, but to what extent should it come at the expense of the ability to represent constituents' views to the party and Parliament?" Samara's report reads.



"What does it suggest about Canadian political parties if both MPs and citizens see those parties as being at odds with MPs' abilities to represent their constituents?"



Samara, whose goal is to improve political and civic engagement, polled 2,287 Canadians in 10 provinces. The poll has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/12/03/20402551.html?cid=rssnewscanada

I a weak global recovery people need someone to blame. Politicians make great targets.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Gary Oak on December 04, 2012, 12:48:11 PM
Go back to your ESL school for more lessons Seoulfag
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2012, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: "Gary Oak"Go back to your ESL school for more lessons Seoulfag

OK, but my $40 an hour rate is not negotiable. I do guarantee results though and within no time at all I will have your English up to that of an elementary school graduate.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Gary Oak on December 04, 2012, 12:58:31 PM
Then you should be able to edit your previous post. 40$ an hour is quite steep a price for someone whose English needs alot of work
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2012, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: "Gary Oak"Then you should be able to edit your previous post. 40$ an hour is quite steep a price for someone whose English needs alot of work

That's an important first step you just made. Your English does require a lot of work, but your investment will be well worth it.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 04, 2012, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"I would think that similar sentiments would be felt throughout much of the Western world. Liberal Western democracy is not the best system to respond to the many challenges the West now faces.


Really? What's better than democracy?
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Leopardsocks on December 04, 2012, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Shen Li"I would think that similar sentiments would be felt throughout much of the Western world. Liberal Western democracy is not the best system to respond to the many challenges the West now faces.


Really? What's better than democracy?


Ah, the party boy answers a question with a question.



Actually, nothing is better than a democracy. I look forward, like many Canadians, Americans, English and other people, to living in a democratic nation.



Not a nation controlled by one, or two political parties.



Of course, socialism demands a central, party controlled government, doesn't it, Trotsky.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 04, 2012, 06:47:49 PM
Who shouldn't be allowed to vote? Disallowing people to vote isn't democracy.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 04, 2012, 07:24:54 PM
We're a democracy. This "western liberal democracy" is an invented term of yours.



I still can't imagine what you think would be better. Totalitarianism? Authoritarianism?



Who shouldn't be allowed to vote? It should be a right for every adult.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 05, 2012, 12:31:08 AM
That's funny. Singapore is a western liberal democracy. And it's a city state. Being prime minister of Singapore is like being the mayor of Oslo. Two successful western democratic cities.



People unemployed for long periods of time. You mean people like Obvious Li? Welfare recipients. Individual or corporate?



Criminals, crazies and junkies I understand. We all do. But you're crazy if you think we should all just start restricting rights to people who we personally deem undesirable. Citizens who are "unemployed for too long"? A single parent who went on welfare for a couple of weeks before they got a good job? And how do we decide who's a crazy or junkie?  



What you're thinking of isn't democracy. In a democracy, voting is a right.



Canadian women got the right to vote in 1919. Chinese Canadians got the right to vote in 1947. Now we all have the right to vote.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Obvious Li on December 05, 2012, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: "Romero"That's funny. Singapore is a western liberal democracy. And it's a city state. Being prime minister of Singapore is like being the mayor of Oslo. Two successful western democratic cities.



People unemployed for long periods of time. You mean people like Obvious Li? Welfare recipients. Individual or corporate?



Criminals, crazies and junkies I understand. We all do. But you're crazy if you think we should all just start restricting rights to people who we personally deem undesirable. Citizens who are "unemployed for too long"? A single parent who went on welfare for a couple of weeks before they got a good job? And how do we decide who's a crazy or junkie?  



What you're thinking of isn't democracy. In a democracy, voting is a right.



Canadian women got the right to vote in 1919. Chinese Canadians got the right to vote in 1947. Now we all have the right to vote.




Homy..what she said is pretty straight forward..if you don't contribute to society in general then you do not have a say in how it is run.....period......once upon a time voting was restricted to a select group.....everything worked pretty well...then the more "progressive" politicians decided to make voting all inclusive...a noble goal...however, it has now evolved into a system controlled by special interest groups who neither care about or represent the average citizen.....they are merely interested in doing what is right for them..and not society as a whole

is suspect it will take violence and strife to reverse this mess ,  but reverse it we must
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 05, 2012, 12:11:55 PM
That might be some of the most asinine things you've ever posted...you actually think Junkies line up to vote? Ya have to have a fckin address for starters and who will be employed to review the 1000's of people and make a decision of whether they are allowed to vote?...I thought you want less Government officials?...or maybe we can just throw away Doctor Patient confidentiality?





You want to break the law and eat shark fin but then take the right to vote away from people...what the fck are you on, crack?





Corporate welfare...you don't understand? Ya it's called bailouts, tax breaks...see there was this lil financial crisis (2008) maybe you heard about it and corporate welfare was being tossed around like a garden salad...
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 05, 2012, 02:30:40 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"A person show's some f*cking proof they have skin in the game and you are given a ballot. Can't do that, too bad, next!

Everybody can easily show their tax returns, pay stubs, drug tests and psych evaluations. Election workers are more than capable of personally deciding who's worthy of voting.



It's so simple. What could go wrong?
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Obvious Li on December 05, 2012, 04:00:55 PM
lol..listening to some of the more enlightened lefties today is an exercise in futility.......having never created anything, owned anything or produced anything they cannot grasp the concept that the GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE WEALTH....that is done by Corporations and Individuals who put their capital at risk to do so.........the GOVERNMENT gets 100% of it's funds from these people or they borrow it.....so once again...the money belongs to individual citizens and the corporations ...the government takes it from them...they do not give them money they simply take less at certain times.....the fact they take my money and give it to slugs like EU and Homero is both tragic and insulting.....frankly i would be happier if they piled it in the street and burnt it....
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 05, 2012, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"the fact they take my money and give it to slugs like EU and Homero is both tragic and insulting

The government is paying you to sit on your ass. EU and I work for a living and we're helping pay you to sit on your ass.



"But but but I've paid into my entitlements and I deserve them."



So has the average welfare recipient.



The unemployed shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2012, 08:26:51 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Romero"That's funny. Singapore is a western liberal democracy. And it's a city state. Being prime minister of Singapore is like being the mayor of Oslo. Two successful western democratic cities.



People unemployed for long periods of time. You mean people like Obvious Li? Welfare recipients. Individual or corporate?



Criminals, crazies and junkies I understand. We all do. But you're crazy if you think we should all just start restricting rights to people who we personally deem undesirable. Citizens who are "unemployed for too long"? A single parent who went on welfare for a couple of weeks before they got a good job? And how do we decide who's a crazy or junkie?  



What you're thinking of isn't democracy. In a democracy, voting is a right.



Canadian women got the right to vote in 1919. Chinese Canadians got the right to vote in 1947. Now we all have the right to vote.




Homy..what she said is pretty straight forward..if you don't contribute to society in general then you do not have a say in how it is run.....period......once upon a time voting was restricted to a select group.....everything worked pretty well...then the more "progressive" politicians decided to make voting all inclusive...a noble goal...however, it has now evolved into a system controlled by special interest groups who neither care about or represent the average citizen.....they are merely interested in doing what is right for them..and not society as a whole

is suspect it will take violence and strife to reverse this mess ,  but reverse it we must

You don't feel I should be allowed to vote either, am I correct?
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 06, 2012, 09:50:23 AM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Shen Li"A person show's some f*cking proof they have skin in the game and you are given a ballot. Can't do that, too bad, next!

Everybody can easily show their tax returns, pay stubs, drug tests and psych evaluations. Election workers are more than capable of personally deciding who's worthy of voting.



It's so simple. What could go wrong?






Maybe Shin Li can be on the panel to decide who votes...I'm sure her personal bias would not affect any of her decisions...just like when she was a mod here....



(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTb5aHg1AfQvJK-LB9PUSMA7R7fWv8wdgmzVBg6DgyE0ioZqYzH%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9%20...%20yE0ioZqYzH%22%3Ehttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTb5aHg1AfQvJK-LB9PUSMA7R7fWv8wdgmzVBg6DgyE0ioZqYzH%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 06, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"

is suspect it will take violence and strife to reverse this mess ,  but reverse it we must




Buauauauauaua wow so cryptic for a skinny lil thing....ya thru violence I think we should be capable of intimidating people away from idea they are allowed to vote, but maybe you'll have to get someone else to do the violence because I think you'd have trouble takin on a squirrel...got any more great ideas on that front?
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Obvious Li on December 06, 2012, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "Romero"That's funny. Singapore is a western liberal democracy. And it's a city state. Being prime minister of Singapore is like being the mayor of Oslo. Two successful western democratic cities.



People unemployed for long periods of time. You mean people like Obvious Li? Welfare recipients. Individual or corporate?



Criminals, crazies and junkies I understand. We all do. But you're crazy if you think we should all just start restricting rights to people who we personally deem undesirable. Citizens who are "unemployed for too long"? A single parent who went on welfare for a couple of weeks before they got a good job? And how do we decide who's a crazy or junkie?  



What you're thinking of isn't democracy. In a democracy, voting is a right.



Canadian women got the right to vote in 1919. Chinese Canadians got the right to vote in 1947. Now we all have the right to vote.




Homy..what she said is pretty straight forward..if you don't contribute to society in general then you do not have a say in how it is run.....period......once upon a time voting was restricted to a select group.....everything worked pretty well...then the more "progressive" politicians decided to make voting all inclusive...a noble goal...however, it has now evolved into a system controlled by special interest groups who neither care about or represent the average citizen.....they are merely interested in doing what is right for them..and not society as a whole

is suspect it will take violence and strife to reverse this mess ,  but reverse it we must

You don't feel I should be allowed to vote either, am I correct?






you own a house and pay property taxes.....

you work and pay taxes.......



you are good to go.......as stated, those that own property and contribute to society should be allowed to vote, those that take from society should not...it's a simple concept.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 01:02:39 AM
The list just keeps growing and growing. Students and now anyone who doesn't own a house. I'm sure you two can come up with a lot more than that!



Who's next? Retirees? Disabled war vets?



I can't believe you guys can't simply personally comprehend the ridiculousness of your Bizarro World democracy. To vote, you would have to show your pay stubs, tax returns, drug tests etc etc... and your title deed better have your name on it!



Voting would take so much time and effort. It'd be a nightmare and barely anyone would vote. And after all that, some election monitor gets to personally decide if you're worthy!



You two are hoping for a Plutocracy, not a democracy. The funny thing is, neither of you would be able to vote under your ridiculous conditions.



What happened to your libertarianism? This is as big in-your-face government as it gets. "You're a productive citizen? Show me your papers."



Democracy. It's better than a couple of people deciding the rights of others based on personal whims. Think about democratic countries compared to countries where voting is restricted. Canada, the US, the UK, Singapore, Japan... compared to Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran...
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 07, 2012, 09:15:58 AM
Reading you posts Shin Li I think the top of your list should be pregnant women then women with hysteria...they obviously just can't think straight enough to vote...
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 01:04:31 PM
Oh yeah, parents on maternity leave wouldn't be allowed to vote. Serves those moochers right.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 01:15:44 PM
Why? They don't work, they don't pay taxes and they mooch off the government.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 01:47:50 PM
Yet you want an intrusive government inquisition into your life just to have the right to vote.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Obvious Li on December 07, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: "Romero"Oh yeah, parents on maternity leave wouldn't be allowed to vote. Serves those moochers right.




maternity leave would be abolished as another boondoggle and waste of tax payers money....why the fuck should i pay for you to have kids......give your head a shake sparky....



certainly there would be age qualifications for voting as well..i'm in favor of age 30 plus but could be talked in to 29 plus.....Shen Li would get a sponsors exemption of course...
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
Quote from: "Shen Li"A deed, a T4, proof of income or soemthing like that intrusive? Enumerators before elections are a lot nosier than that.

Don't forget the pay stubs, drug tests and property tax receipts.



Nah, having to show a title deed(which would have to be in your name), property taxes(in your name), T4's, tax returns, pay stubs and drug tests isn't intrusive at all!



Voting wouldn't be much more difficult than filing taxes or applying for a bank loan. While peeing into a cup.



What a wonderful democracy. Millions of people waiting in line all day long fumbling around with stacks of documents.



You really have no idea what a joke it would be. Nobody would bother voting. You and Obvious wouldn't.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: "Obvious Li"maternity leave would be abolished as another boondoggle and waste of tax payers money....why the fuck should i pay for you to have kids......give your head a shake sparky....



certainly there would be age qualifications for voting as well..i'm in favor of age 30 plus but could be talked in to 29 plus.....Shen Li would get a sponsors exemption of course...

What do you think, Shen? Maternity leave should be abolished?



And now yet another restriction - age. Except there would be an exception if some guy in Saskatchewan approves.



I knew exactly where this is all going. Pretty soon you two are going to be the only ones allowed to vote! What an amazing coincidence!
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Leopardsocks on December 07, 2012, 07:29:57 PM
Quote from: "Romero"
Quote from: "Shen Li"A deed, a T4, proof of income or soemthing like that intrusive? Enumerators before elections are a lot nosier than that.

Don't forget the pay stubs, drug tests and property tax receipts.



Nah, having to show a title deed(which would have to be in your name), property taxes(in your name), T4's, tax returns, pay stubs and drug tests isn't intrusive at all!



Voting wouldn't be much more difficult than filing taxes or applying for a bank loan. While peeing into a cup.



What a wonderful democracy. Millions of people waiting in line all day long fumbling around with stacks of documents.



You really have no idea what a joke it would be. Nobody would bother voting. You and Obvious wouldn't.


Wrong.



Every voter has to register to be entitled to vote.



This is done LONG before elections are held.



Registration may require certain conditions viz;



If you have been unemployed since the last election, you will not be registered, the exemptions being retirees. People on social welfare for whatever reason are not exempt.

If you have committed an indictable crime since the last election, you are not registered.

It you are not a citizen, you cannot be registered.

If you are in prison, you cannot vote.

If you have been convicted at any time in the past for treason, fraud against the Commonwealth, or any act injurious to the Commonwealth, including incitement, you cannot vote.

If you have not resided in the country for at least 2 years since the last election, you cannot vote, the exemption being if the period between elections is less than the required statutory period. (eg, 3 yrs because of an early election).



No registration slip, don't bother attending.



You must register no more than 3 months prior to the election being due...with, of course, fixed election periods such as the US.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Romero on December 07, 2012, 08:45:22 PM
Most of those are already requirements.



In Canada you don't need to be registered to vote. Most voters are registered, but I guess we can add yet another requirement to the ever-expanding list.



Register long before elections are held? Anything can happen in that time. People can become unemployed, go on welfare... I thought they shouldn't be allowed to vote? No, one would have prove they're employed, own a home, paying taxes and not on drugs every single time they vote. Municipal, provincial, federal, referendums...



What an incredible hassle. I can't believe the three of you of all people would insist on such big government intrusion.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Leopardsocks on December 07, 2012, 09:13:31 PM
I said "register WITHIN 3 months".



ALL of those requirements are easily established. If you haven't recorded income with the tax office, if you've been convicted, registered citizens...Technology makes things a lot easier.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: Obvious Li on December 08, 2012, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: "Romero"Most of those are already requirements.



In Canada you don't need to be registered to vote. Most voters are registered, but I guess we can add yet another requirement to the ever-expanding list.



Register long before elections are held? Anything can happen in that time. People can become unemployed, go on welfare... I thought they shouldn't be allowed to vote? No, one would have prove they're employed, own a home, paying taxes and not on drugs every single time they vote. Municipal, provincial, federal, referendums...



What an incredible hassle. I can't believe the three of you of all people would insist on such big government intrusion.




Homy......only a leftie could take something so simple and make it into a cluster fuck.....if you paid property taxes (local tax rolls) or income tax (after all deductions) (federal tax rolls), AND are over a certain age....and  a citizen of canada........then you get to vote.........the information is readily available and easy to provide at the local polling station when it's time to vote..........easy peasy japaneasy



This would insure that the people paying for the running of this country would control where and how their hard earned tax dollars were spent.....i guaranfuckingtee you the size of the federal govt. would shrink by 50-75% immediately.....about where it should be.
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 10, 2012, 10:49:08 AM
Quote from: "Shen Li"
People unemployed for long periods of time, people with violent criminal records, crazies, junkies, welfare recipients no matter how short of time they have been sponging and homeless people for starters. Basically, if you have no skin in the game you should not be allowed any say over how tax money is spent. Voting should not be a right, it should be restricted to those who have earned it.




To review all those cases and make a decision whether they vote or not is going to be done by who? And what is a junkie? A housewife on Ativan? A professor smokin weed...once you're on a methadone treatment then you're allowed to vote? Or maybe have the entire country piss in a plastic cup? And the interviews to establish who is crazy and who is just a bit "off" and who decides which people are crazy and at what level of craziness do you lose your vote...it's fckin asinine...reactionary shite from the usual suspects. And it will shrink government too? :roll:
Title: Re: Canadians Losing Faith In Their Democracy
Post by: EU on December 10, 2012, 10:51:53 AM
(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjDnzlOfKEUIHlMZ7NrCEEMkrZlK8gsJWFbhN81yKYOZCSupdhEQ%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9%20...%20OZCSupdhEQ%22%3Ehttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjDnzlOfKEUIHlMZ7NrCEEMkrZlK8gsJWFbhN81yKYOZCSupdhEQ%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)