THeBlueCashew

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Shen Li"^Oh FFS, this is the kind of crap Romero would post. It was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but also convey a point. Eliminating gun ownership won't necessarily lower violent crime rates. Also, we see the types of governments that do NOT trust their citizens with guns. A lot of them are pretty fucking scary.

But proper gun control does work. America's lack of gun control proves it.



Funny how you have to use ridiculous examples like Hitler and Stalin. It just goes to show that you can't use real world examples like Canada, Australia, the UK...

That image was meant to be facetious moron. However, Switzerland has a very rate of gun ownership. They rejected more restrictive gun laws via referendum. Is that a country now another South Africa? Hardly.

QuoteGetting rid of all guns wouldn't lower violent crime rates? Is that supposed to be a joke comment as well?

Restricting gun ownership is supposed to get rid of guns and thus violent crime? The same way that prohibition eliminated alcohol. ac_lmfao  This is a fucking joke right? Nobody could possibly be that fucking naïve? Maybe you just finished a big fattie before you wrote that.

Quote from: "Dove"It's not legal gun owners responsible for these crimes. In fact no one knows how this shooter even got his weapon.

Quote from: "SPECTRE""Our nation's weak gun laws and easy access to unmatched firepower allow virtually anyone the ability to carry out such a lethal event. At the same time, the NRA and its financial patrons in the gun industry work to make sure the next mass shooter has all the tools he needs, by promoting and marketing increasingly lethal products designed with the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time available.



The firearms industry can get away with this because guns are the only consumer product the federal government does not regulate for health and safety. Airplanes are regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration, and if a jetliner crashes, we immediately investigate the causes to prevent it from happening again. Food is regulated by the Food and Drug Administration. A food poisoning outbreak prompts authorities to trace the source of the contamination.



Yet when guns are used to shatter lives and communities in mass attacks, we accept it, surrendering to what the National Rifle Association labels the "price of freedom."



How hard is this for these dumbshit yankees to follow??



More guns = more gun deaths.



Less guns = less gun deaths.



Its basic, simple logic. But fear is rarely logical. An American has to have a gun to defend himself and his family.



Why?



Because they guy next door has a gun.



No wonder they fuck up every military exercise they've ever embarked on.

QuoteA teenage gunman who shot dead a NSW police worker outside the force's Sydney headquarters in an attack "linked to terrorism" has reportedly been identified as Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar.



Officially, police have only described the killer as a 15-year-old boy of Iraqi-Kurdish background and born in Iran, and say they won't confirm his identity until "all formalities" have been completed.



A day after the shocking attack which closed down parts of Parramatta, investigators are trying to work out what led to the teen, named in media reports as Jabar, to shoot Curtis Cheng as he left work at the State Crime Command on Friday afternoon.



Mr Cheng had worked for the police finance department for 17 years.



After gunning the 58-year-old down from behind, Jabar continued to fire.



Dressed in a loose-fitting black robe, he was reportedly waving his pistol about and yelling as he moved in front of the police centre before being shot dead by officers.



Commissioner Andrew Scipione says police are still a long way from establishing a full picture of the teen or what motivated him to carry out the "disturbing" attack.



What they do believe, is "that his actions were politically motivated and therefore linked to terrorism".



At this early stage of the investigation, Mr Scipione says they have no information to tie the boy to a specific group.



"There is nothing to suggest he was doing anything but acting alone," he said in Sydney.



The teenager's family have spoken to police and are co-operating.



Mr Scipione said he had been advised the teenager attended a mosque before the shooting but reminded people such attacks were the acts of a small minority.



"Simply because a person is of the Muslim faith doesn't mean they are a terrorist. We shouldn't be treating entire communities like they are all suspects, because that's simply not the case," he said.



He has spoken with Islamic community leaders who have condemned the shooting and offered full support.



Detectives visited the mosque again on Saturday morning, News Corp Australia reports.



Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who described the shooting as a "cold-blooded murder", echoed the commissioner's comments.



Blaming or vilifying the Muslim community would be utterly counterproductive, he said.



"The Muslim community are our absolutely necessary partners in combating this type of violent extremism," he said.



Mr Scipione remembered Mr Cheng as a "much-loved man" who would be missed and said he was hoping to speak with his family on Saturday.



NSW Premier Mike Baird has expressed his condolences to Mr Cheng's loved ones.



"How can someone so young undertake such a chilling act? It doesn't make sense. It should never have happened," he told the media.



He urged all Australians to not let fear or anger take hold and called for unity.



"This is not a time to point fingers, for anger to reign ... what we have to do is come together and solve it," Mr Baird said.



Mr Scipione said the events of Friday would be taken into consideration with regards to security at the NRL grand final at Homebush on Sunday.



"There will be a very high police presence regardless (but) you may well expect to see higher visibility," he said.



A coronial inquest will be held into the shooting.



Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/03/03/35/nrl-security-may-be-boosted-after-shooting#drSTvpRkzB8jyvqZ.99

Quote from: "RW"He didn't mow down a bunch of students in a school Dove.  He had a "pistol" not a fricken arsenal.  See the difference?

Quote from: "RW"He didn't mow down a bunch of students in a school Dove.  He had a "pistol" not a fricken arsenal.  See the difference?

Quote from: "RW"It's not naive if you learn to read :)

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"It's not naive if you learn to read :)

 So banning guns will cause less violance just like banning drugs caused less addiction.  Got it. The last I checked people don't sit around plotting to do a public shooting but darn it....guns aren't legal. If only guns were legal...I could shoot people.  Makes sense RW. I'm so glad I could read and be told how to think, despite that pesky thing called reality.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"He didn't mow down a bunch of students in a school Dove.  He had a "pistol" not a fricken arsenal.  See the difference?

I don't see the difference. One murder is not less important than 9. Just ask the family members of any murder victim.



Besides unless you believe the Hollywierd bullshit, you can only use one gun at a time. It doesn't matter how many you own. I don't even see where that is relevant in this case.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"What do you mean what?



paid low key actors cited in other situations were spotted during Sandy Hook. It shouldn't come as any surprise. It's how uncle sam rolls.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"No, just a realist here.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"I pointed out that some of the Sandy Hook people resembled known crises actor peoples.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"He didn't mow down a bunch of students in a school Dove.  He had a "pistol" not a fricken arsenal.  See the difference?

I don't see the difference. One murder is not less important than 9. Just ask the family members of any murder victim.



Besides unless you believe the Hollywierd bullshit, you can only use one gun at a time. It doesn't matter how many you own. I don't even see where that is relevant in this case.

Don't you of all people dare twist this shit.  



One mourning family is still less than 10 mourning families.  A single murder is not the same as say Virginia Tech (33), Columbine (15), Sandy Hook (27), Umpqua (10).



Quit pissing around.  It's unbecoming of you.  You too cc.  I would never expect this kind of cheap shit from you.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"I pointed out that some of the Sandy Hook people resembled known crises actor peoples.

Go read snopes ffs.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"He didn't mow down a bunch of students in a school Dove.  He had a "pistol" not a fricken arsenal.  See the difference?

I don't see the difference. One murder is not less important than 9. Just ask the family members of any murder victim.



Besides unless you believe the Hollywierd bullshit, you can only use one gun at a time. It doesn't matter how many you own. I don't even see where that is relevant in this case.

Don't you of all people dare twist this shit.  



One mourning family is still less than 10 mourning families.  A single murder is not the same as say Virginia Tech (33), Columbine (15), Sandy Hook (27), Umpqua (10).



Quit pissing around.  It's unbecoming of you.  You too cc.  I would never expect this kind of cheap shit from you.

You quit "pissing" around. You are honestly going to tell me that if 2 people are killed it is more important than 1 in a situation like this. Since when does body count define the importance of a tragedy. Shame on you.



That kind of game is the shit the media pulls for ratings and the kind of shit sleazy politicians use to whip prople into a frenzy to garner votes. I thought you were smarter than that. You're starting to sound like our shit head president. Since 2012 3,000 people have been shit in Chicago and he doesn't say boo. But let something like this happen and he stands in front of the cameras with angry tears and flaps his lips like what just happened is the most important event in the world. I guess everyone else who was killed or wounded previously don't quite make the grade because they died alone......Fucking disgusting.



AND your arsenal comment was pure emotional illogical bullshit as well. Just cut it out.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"So, if I may summarise the proponents of the status quo; one is comparing gun control to drug control, one is claiming that one death is equivalent to 9. Or 27, and the other isn't American and hasn't a fucking clue what he's talking about at the best of times.



Dove; drugs are physically and psychologically addictive. Guns are not. You cannot kill someone by throwing drugs at them. I suppose you can use drugs as a murder weapon, but its not recommended.



Renee; Your fatality count is 10 times that of ANY western industrialised, modern, democratic society. 10 times is more than 1 time. Its called mathematics. Look into it.



Dinky; You're just a fuckhead, so your comments are vacuous and irrelevant.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "SPECTRE"So, if I may summarise the proponents of the status quo; one is comparing gun control to drug control, one is claiming that one death is equivalent to 9. Or 27, and the other isn't American and hasn't a fucking clue what he's talking about at the best of times.



Dove; drugs are physically and psychologically addictive. Guns are not. You cannot kill someone by throwing drugs at them. I suppose you can use drugs as a murder weapon, but its not recommended.



Renee; Your fatality count is 10 times that of ANY western industrialised, modern, democratic society. 10 times is more than 1 time. Its called mathematics. Look into it.



Dinky; You're just a fuckhead, so your comments are vacuous and irrelevant.

What I'm saying is that the loss of one life from a stand point of morality is not more important than 10 or 12 or 20. A tragic loss of someone's life does not have a finite value that can be added up by body count. Who exactly are you or anyone else for that matter to place a higher level of importance on someone's life over another? That's playing a bullshit game that you don't have the right to play.

Quote from: "RW"Are we talking about the value of a life?  If so, does your country not owe it to its people to not allow fucking crazies access to guns where they kill 10 students or 20 children in a fucking rampage?!!?  Australia has strict gun laws and cc here puts up a story of one cop being shot thinking its fucking comparable!  That's fucking sick.



You cannot justify your country's fucked up relationship with guns by attempting to berate me for being disgusted by it.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"

Quote from: "RW"Are we talking about the value of a life?  If so, does your country not owe it to its people to not allow fucking crazies access to guns where they kill 10 students or 20 children in a fucking rampage?!!?  Australia has strict gun laws and cc here puts up a story of one cop being shot thinking its fucking comparable!  That's fucking sick.



You cannot justify your country's fucked up relationship with guns by attempting to berate me for being disgusted by it.

It must hurt to be so weak in the survival stakes as you, RW.



You're like regular South Australians, almost.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"And the South Australian pipsqueaks up.

Quote from: "RW"Quit hitting on me.  :t1929:

Quote from: "SPECTRE"Thirteen dead.



Twenty wounded.



But the answer is to give them MORE guns!!!

Quote from: "Herman"I have lived and worked in a number of different states. I can tell you that even if a constitutional amendment was passed that forced Americans to surrender their guns and that will never happen, they would have them back tomorrow. Tens of millions of Americans are not going to give up their rights because a few thousand cannot handle the responsibility of gun ownership.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"I have lived and worked in a number of different states. I can tell you that even if a constitutional amendment was passed that forced Americans to surrender their guns and that will never happen, they would have them back tomorrow. Tens of millions of Americans are not going to give up their rights because a few thousand cannot handle the responsibility of gun ownership.

I understand that.  There is no way the US will ever disarm.

Quote from: "Frank"Some years ago when I had a myspace account, I friended a woman who lost her brother in gun homicide.

He was a marine vet who lived in North Carolina.

He was in line at the post office and he got into an argument.

Unfortunately the guy he got into the argument with pulled out his gun and shot him dead.

I did a search on google and it was a true, verifiable story.

It was in the local and state papers.



Anyways the sadness it brought the poor woman was something which could not be mitigated.

She was still writing about her brothers day months later and posting annual remembrances of him.

Quote from: "Frank"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Herman"I have lived and worked in a number of different states. I can tell you that even if a constitutional amendment was passed that forced Americans to surrender their guns and that will never happen, they would have them back tomorrow. Tens of millions of Americans are not going to give up their rights because a few thousand cannot handle the responsibility of gun ownership.

I understand that.  There is no way the US will ever disarm.

In a way, American society's worship of the almighty gun isn't that different from Muslims who flock to Mecca during the hajj and have died in the thousands over the years. Its adherents have this unyielding fanatical faith in their ideal, but it often results in tragedy for its followers.

Quote from: "Dove"This year, I've attended 6 funerals due to heroin deaths. I say...we ban heroin. Oh wait....

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"No, just a realist here.

A realist who is denying Sandy Hook happened???

Quote from: "SPECTRE"So, if I may summarise the proponents of the status quo; one is comparing gun control to drug control, one is claiming that one death is equivalent to 9. Or 27, and the other isn't American and hasn't a fucking clue what he's talking about at the best of times.



Dove; drugs are physically and psychologically addictive. Guns are not. You cannot kill someone by throwing drugs at them. I suppose you can use drugs as a murder weapon, but its not recommended.



Renee; Your fatality count is 10 times that of ANY western industrialised, modern, democratic society. 10 times is more than 1 time. Its called mathematics. Look into it.



Dinky; You're just a fuckhead, so your comments are vacuous and irrelevant.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"Oh, btw...you've just been elected President of the US.



Your first job is to deal with drug abuse.



How will YOU do it?

Quote from: "Dove"When I can't find a hammer, I grab the next blunt object that will suffice. Duh.

Quote from: "Frank"Here's a bird's eye view of what it looks like from a shooter's pov when he kills someone:







Very sad - Lives of 2 perfectly innocent persons ended by a senseless killing.

Such as the terrible power of the gun.



WARNING: Extremely Graphic, but final seconds of video have been blacked out.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Dove"When I can't find a hammer, I grab the next blunt object that will suffice. Duh.

You will find, however, that very few objects can replace a hammer and operate with the same effectiveness. Being a woman, that might be difficult to follow, but its true nonetheless.



Likewise, if you wish to kill someone, and don't have a gun, your available options are far more problematic.



See...the point is, take away the tool, and the tradesman cannot ply his craft. Its not hard to grasp.



Yes, your nation is awash with guns, and removing them MAY be impossible, thus you are condemned to continue to slaughter each other on a grand scale.



On the other hand, your nation might try to show the courage, morality and fortitude it so brazenly displays to the world at large, and start now.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Dove"When I can't find a hammer, I grab the next blunt object that will suffice. Duh.

You will find, however, that very few objects can replace a hammer and operate with the same effectiveness. Being a woman, that might be difficult to follow, but its true nonetheless.



Likewise, if you wish to kill someone, and don't have a gun, your available options are far more problematic.



See...the point is, take away the tool, and the tradesman cannot ply his craft. Its not hard to grasp.



Yes, your nation is awash with guns, and removing them MAY be impossible, thus you are condemned to continue to slaughter each other on a grand scale.



On the other hand, your nation might try to show the courage, morality and fortitude it so brazenly displays to the world at large, and start now.

 Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.  It's like saying 5 people in my city  killed people so we all must get the death penalty.  Why aren't you targeting our media/entertainment industries that glorify violance and drugs?  We have youth being culturally shaped by "cash money, pop a cap in dat ass, nigga fuck dem hoes". You think thats not a problem? Why not look at the fact that many violant crimes are committed by people on psychotropic drugs?  It's not guns that's causing the problem, so banning them will not fix the problem. We will still have nutbags committing shootings. Only now regular people will be unarmed, for no reason.

Quote from: "Dove"Don't add to my point. I'm speaking in generals and that should be obvious. The majority of gun related crimes involve black market guns and involve criminal on criminal violance. You just don't read about that.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Dove"Don't add to my point. I'm speaking in generals and that should be obvious. The majority of gun related crimes involve black market guns and involve criminal on criminal violance. You just don't read about that.

I don't imagine the bloods and crips are obtaining their guns legally. No paper trail for gangsters.

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

Quote from: "Dove"http://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secret-online-weapons-store-thatll-sell-anyone-anything there is also a site on TOR called "Mr Brownstone".  Guess what they sell lol.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

Quote from: "Dove"You guys can keep thinking this is about guns. It's not. Guns are a tool. Guns don't kill.  The problem is with the people. The problem is our system.  Guns are just a TOOL.

Quote  Guns may not kill people, but people with guns do, and they do so more often and more efficiently than people without guns.  People do not behave in a vacuum. They are influenced by their environment, and when that environment is occupied by guns, people behave aggressively and impulsively.  

Quote'Priming' is a well-known, rigorously evaluated concept in cognitive science by which exposure to an unconscious stimulus influences response to a later stimulus.   A textbook example by Bargh, Chen, and Burrows (1996) involves an experiment in which subjects were primed with words related to elderly people (slow, forgetful, wrinkle), and found that subjects in the treatment group walked more slowly out of the room than subjects in a control group. ... They published their findings in a famous paper entitled "Does the Gun Pull the Trigger?" where they found that the mere presence of a weapon primes aggressive behavior.

QuoteAmerica has embraced a social norm that explicitly legitimizes these deaths by providing an unending laundry list of excuses whenever one happens: it was the irresponsible parents, the inadequate firearm training, the bad public policy, and so on.  But it's never the gun.  And yet, somehow, the U.S. is responsible for 80% of all firearm deaths, 86% of all female firearm deaths, and 87% of all child firearm deaths in the developed world.  It's just a coincidence that we have the highest per capita gun ownership rate in the world.  

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

It would be one thing if it was a one off but it isn't.



I know you can't grasp a concept of a society without hand guns on citizens but they do exist and they aren't nearly as terrifying as you think they are.

Quote from: "Dove"My country has no morals. Let alone a highground.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

It would be one thing if it was a one off but it isn't.



I know you can't grasp a concept of a society without hand guns on citizens but they do exist and they aren't nearly as terrifying as you think they are.

 You just assume every culture is the same.  I know gun free societies exist and they are not at all scary. However, you will not have a gun free society in america...so changing our Constitution makes absolutely no sense. That's your problem, you think banning guns will cause this happy gun free society. It won't. Not in america. Not with this mindset. And there is no way the public is going to surrender their fire arms.  I don't even own a gun. I'm just being realistic.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

It would be one thing if it was a one off but it isn't.



I know you can't grasp a concept of a society without hand guns on citizens but they do exist and they aren't nearly as terrifying as you think they are.

 You just assume every culture is the same.  I know gun free societies exist and they are not at all scary. However, you will not have a gun free society in america...so changing our Constitution makes absolutely no sense. That's your problem, you think banning guns will cause this happy gun free society. It won't. Not in america. Not with this mindset. And there is no way the public is going to surrender their fire arms.  I don't even own a gun. I'm just being realistic.

I don't assume all cultures are the same at all.  I know the US will never part with their precious guns.  All I am asking is that you guys stop making bullshit justifications for having them.  If you support readily available access to guns, then you have a society riddled with bullet holes.



I feel sad for you.

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

It would be one thing if it was a one off but it isn't.



I know you can't grasp a concept of a society without hand guns on citizens but they do exist and they aren't nearly as terrifying as you think they are.

 You just assume every culture is the same.  I know gun free societies exist and they are not at all scary. However, you will not have a gun free society in america...so changing our Constitution makes absolutely no sense. That's your problem, you think banning guns will cause this happy gun free society. It won't. Not in america. Not with this mindset. And there is no way the public is going to surrender their fire arms.  I don't even own a gun. I'm just being realistic.

I don't assume all cultures are the same at all.  I know the US will never part with their precious guns.  All I am asking is that you guys stop making bullshit justifications for having them.  If you support readily available access to guns, then you have a society riddled with bullet holes.



I feel sad for you.

One of my Pinay girlfriend's husband told me something interesting..



The Philippines has gun ownership rate one seventh that of Canada, but it's firearm death rate is six times higher.

 :confused1:

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Gay Boy Roberto"

Quote from: "Dove"  Banning guns is not going to reduce gun violance. The people who obtain and use guns legally are NOT, I repeat, NOT the ones committing the crimes.

Like this week's mass shooter idiot of the week, who bought 13 guns LEGALLY

 

 I can't discuss this with emotional thinkers who don't understand generals. You think everyone should lose rights over the actions on one person and that beyond fucking stupid. You don't deserve freedom. Yanno what don't respond to me unless you've read my entire post. I'm not going to tediously walk you through everything I've already said.

It would be one thing if it was a one off but it isn't.



I know you can't grasp a concept of a society without hand guns on citizens but they do exist and they aren't nearly as terrifying as you think they are.

 You just assume every culture is the same.  I know gun free societies exist and they are not at all scary. However, you will not have a gun free society in america...so changing our Constitution makes absolutely no sense. That's your problem, you think banning guns will cause this happy gun free society. It won't. Not in america. Not with this mindset. And there is no way the public is going to surrender their fire arms.  I don't even own a gun. I'm just being realistic.

I don't assume all cultures are the same at all.  I know the US will never part with their precious guns.  All I am asking is that you guys stop making bullshit justifications for having them.  If you support readily available access to guns, then you have a society riddled with bullet holes.



I feel sad for you.

One of my Pinay girlfriend's husband told me something interesting..



The Philippines has gun ownership rate one seventh that of Canada, but it's firearm death rate is six times higher.

 :confused1:

Canada, per capita, has a lot of guns.  The question is, what kind of guns are they and what are they used for?  I know a lot of people who own rifles but not one who owns a handgun for personal use.  My uncle is a farmer and he hunts so he has rifles.  I think because of the rural natural of a large part of our country, we have a lot more long guns which aren't designed to kill humans like handguns are.



I'm guessing though so people should feel free to correct me.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

Quote from: "SPECTRE"Nah, its one word.



Its buried deep in the American psyche, both at the individual and national level, and is generated to some degree by those things you mention.



It all boils down to FEAR.



That is the ONLY reason you would wish to carry a lethal handgun. You are afraid.



It is clear that America is a country in turmoil and crisis, and there is no reason for optimism, as their penchant for violence and weaponry to solve problems seems on the increase.



If they confined their disease within their own borders, like every other country, it wouldn't be an issue. But they export their corruption and violence to all corners of the globe.



It is by far the most dangerous country on the planet.

Quote from: "Dove" I'd rather be here than in the middle east. There are much more dangerous countries. America's crime rate is lower than it was in the early 80s....there is just a lot of propaganda. But if the government attempts to remove guns there WILL be a huge revolt. It will get a lot worse. There is a mentality and a culture here that is being overlooked by those in other countries.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"Nah, its one word.



Its buried deep in the American psyche, both at the individual and national level, and is generated to some degree by those things you mention.



It all boils down to FEAR.



That is the ONLY reason you would wish to carry a lethal handgun. You are afraid.



It is clear that America is a country in turmoil and crisis, and there is no reason for optimism, as their penchant for violence and weaponry to solve problems seems on the increase.



If they confined their disease within their own borders, like every other country, it wouldn't be an issue. But they export their corruption and violence to all corners of the globe.



It is by far the most dangerous country on the planet.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Dove" I'd rather be here than in the middle east. There are much more dangerous countries. America's crime rate is lower than it was in the early 80s....there is just a lot of propaganda. But if the government attempts to remove guns there WILL be a huge revolt. It will get a lot worse. There is a mentality and a culture here that is being overlooked by those in other countries.

I agree.



But those more dangerous countries that you refer to do NOT hold themselves up as the "world's greatest democracy", nor take it upon themselves to invade and bomb other nations in a policing role.



Your nation needs to stfu, withdraw and think about itself.

Quote from: "Renee"


Okay I've heard this "fear" talk one too many times out of you.

Quote from: "Dove" Yeah, our government is the reason we have our guns. And won't be disarmed.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

 We do know who the criminals are. What question?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Just like banning drugs and the war on drugs cut down on drug use.  It DOESN'T WORK, not here. You know why?  Because guns and drugs are not the problem, RW.  It's easy to put the focus and responsibility on an object that by itself can't do a thing, isn't it?

Can we please stop with the ridiculous comparisons?  Please?



This "it's not the guns" argument is down right retarded.  That's like saying it's not the toaster's fault for making toast because a person put the bread in the slot.  It garners a response of "no shit Sherlock".  People in your country are using guns to shoot and kill others.  That's a fact.  Say whatever stupid crap you like to justify it, you can't change it.



My question to you is what is the solution to get PEOPLE to stop using GUNS to do things like shoot up schools in the US?

 So let's remove the guns from non criminal and just assume criminals won't get them because it's illegal.  It's not a "ridiculous" comparison. It's reality....and you know it.

At least you'd know who the criminals were!



Now care to answer the question posed?

 We do know who the criminals are. What question?

The one above that follows, "My question to you is..."



 :oeudC:

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Dove" Yeah, our government is the reason we have our guns. And won't be disarmed.

Well, thanks for being honest.



In that case, your country is far from a model to the world (a line from a former President), and has no right imposing its "democracy" on other nations.



Wouldn't you agree?

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Renee"


Okay I've heard this "fear" talk one too many times out of you.

Then I suggest you put me on ignore, or take another powder.



I am somewhat surprised that you bothered to do a little research about Australia. Sadly, you made the mistake of joining the dots you discovered with your eyes closed.



What you foolishly and fatuously (no, not THAT kind of fat) try to misrepresent is our sensible and reasonable management of immigrants, and our rational approach to the prevention of fence jumpers. I'm amused by your claim that it represents fear. What then, to make of your leading Presidential candidate's proposal to build a wall between you and Mexico? No walls on this island, toots.



As to your other idiotic claims in a frankly stupid attempt to paint us as just as frightened of our own shadow as you, I will not even dignify them with a response. Anyone who knows Australia, and Australians, will recognise your ill-conceived attempt at portraying us in the same light as you as as absurd as you becoming a vegetarian.



Let me make it simple. We had a mass murder, by a deranged lunatic, with a high powered rifle. Our PM said that such firearms in a modern community are too dangerous, because we cannot eradicate lunatics. We can, however, eradicate guns.



He proposed a law banning certain firearms that were at the time quite legal to own.



We as a nation said "OK". We don't want any more mass slaughter, and agree that as long as these guns are in our midst, the risk is high it will be repeated. We handed our guns back because we realised it was the right thing to do.



That, you demented and dumpy doofus, is called "courage". Courage of our conviction that we wanted our society to be safe. Courage that your own President cited when he once again pleads with the rednecks, rifle owners and religious ratbags to reconsider the issue of gun control, and to try to grasp that citing a 200 year old piece of paper as justification makes no sense in the modern world.



As a result, we have had no mass firearm related murder since the hand back. Gun crime and death has reduced.



And we're fucking PROUD of ourselves for making a good community decision.



We don't live in fear of ourselves. Our aborigines are not persecuted. We don't need guns to keep ourselves safe.



And NOTHING you say in your histrionic moronics mentions 30,000 plus gun deaths per year.



Are you PROUD of that?

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

Quote from: "Herman"
Banning import and especially production? How much will that cost in terms of jobs and economy? I think they would have to criminalize gun ownership first before they do that. That would require a constitutional amendment, so good luck with that.

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Herman"
Banning import and especially production? How much will that cost in terms of jobs and economy? I think they would have to criminalize gun ownership first before they do that. That would require a constitutional amendment, so good luck with that.

To be sure, what you say is true.  And murder decreases unemployment by reducing directly or freeing up opportunities for others.  The economics of guns are pretty clearly in favour of mayhem.  Hopefully tragic loss of life doesn't come down to a simple question of economy.  It doesn't seem to in any other sector of society.



You don't need a constitutional amendment to ban the production or import of guns.

Quote from: "Herman"
Murder reduces unemployment?  :001_rolleyes: That was stupid not funny.

Quote from: "Herman"I've worked in the states. Most gun owners are very responsible. They like their guns and they are legal, so is their production and import. Why would they be illegal when the right to own them is in the constitution? I gave up my guns long ago, but I can understand if lawful, responsible owners do not or even want to buy more.

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Herman"
Murder reduces unemployment?  :001_rolleyes: That was stupid not funny.

It's a true statement.  In exactly the same way that what you said is a true statement.  Evidently that went over your head.

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

  Then we need to completely get rid of all weapons evetywhere. How realistic is that?

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"People don't like personal responsibility.  It's a societal flaw.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"People don't like personal responsibility.  It's a societal flaw.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Quote from: "Renee":43(2):

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Holy SHIT! I nominate that post for the fucking PKB Award of the year. No.....wait, the "PKB Hall of Fame" would probably be more fitting.



OMG, can you get any more pompous? :laugh3:

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

  Then we need to completely get rid of all weapons evetywhere. How realistic is that?

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"

Quote from: "Renee":43(2):

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Holy SHIT! I nominate that post for the fucking PKB Award of the year. No.....wait, the "PKB Hall of Fame" would probably be more fitting.



OMG, can you get any more pompous? :laugh3:

I was going to comment on that but didn't want to be perceived as pompous.  ac_smile

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

Quote from: "asal"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"

Quote from: "Renee":43(2):

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Holy SHIT! I nominate that post for the fucking PKB Award of the year. No.....wait, the "PKB Hall of Fame" would probably be more fitting.



OMG, can you get any more pompous? :laugh3:

I was going to comment on that but didn't want to be perceived as pompous.  ac_smile

Reel is always right.  Someone said that a few years ago.  It's borne out to be true, mostly.

Quote from: "Dove"I mean I'd we continue this and really start narrowing in on the actual problem (people) that'd be great.

Quote from: "RW"I agree but some people are committing these crimes with guns they obtained legally.  What about that?

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"Armchair social engineers really shit me sometimes. They're always treating the overall quantity of life but avoid the hard questions about the quality of life and self determination. Every problem becomes a rubber stamping opportunity to make more broad policy instead of treating people as the responsible individuals they should be.



Makes me shake my head and worry about the continuance of our species sometimes.

QuoteIf a disease killed 30,000 a year in one country, you'd expect a travel warning. Not in America.



Between December 2013 and September 2015, the World Health Organization says 28,424 people contracted the Ebola virus and 11,311 died of it.



That outbreak ruined the economies of three West African countries and even shook governments where stray cases turned up: Nigeria, Spain, Italy. Just one case showed up in Dallas, Texas, and threw the United States into a nationwide panic.



Now consider a country where a preventable disease routinely sickens 73,000 people and kills about 30,000 a year, or over 80 daily. It has done so year after year since at least the 1960s, with some outbreaks getting a lot of attention while others don't even make the local media.



You would expect the World Health Organization to issue a travel alert about such a country, if not a full-blown Public Health Emergency of International Concern -- the step just below declaring a pandemic.



You would be wrong.



//http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/10/07/Gun-Violence-What-It-Is/

Quote from: "reel"Before I jump down off my soapbox...  I think the Chief Inspector intended to ask a rhetorical question when he asked where the guns come from, but it seems none of you respect him enough to play along.  The answer is that they come from factories with dedicated machine tools and skilled labour.  They don't come from Colombian jungle peasants.  Unlike drugs, guns are a product for which supply chain can be severely restricted without massive, pointless expenditure.  All it requires is the will to do it.

QuoteAnd finally, the notion that small arms can make the difference in an insurrection against a tyrannical government is woefully outdated.  Control of military assets and control of flow of information are what would matter in today's world.  A thousand peasants with handguns would not be able to overcome a single modern battle tank.  That argument is silly.

Quote from: "reel"


You have to be quite the naïve, delusional idealist to believe that even a minority of individuals are capable of being responsible without some degree of social control.  Individualism is the American ideal, but like any ideal, it fails miserably when taken to the extreme.

QuotePolice in Auburn Hills, Michigan are investigating whether or not to charge a conceal carry permit holder who opened fire at alleged shoplifters at a Home Depot store.



According to The Detroit News, the 47-year-old woman was watching from the store's parking lot on Tuesday as a loss prevention officer appeared to be trying to stop a shoplifter. When the suspects tried to flee in a dark SUV, the woman pulled out her concealed 9mm handgun and began shooting.



The SUV escaped but police believed that at least one of the bullets hit the vehicle, flattening a tire. The suspects were described as two men in their 40s, one black and one white. It was not immediately clear if either of the men were shot as they fled.



The Detroit Free Press reported that the woman had a concealed carry permit and was cooperating with law enforcement. Auburn Hills police had not decided if the woman would be charged.



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/michigan-woman-with-concealed-carry-permit-opens-fire-at-alleged-home-depot-shoplifters/

Quote from: "asal"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "reel"I get the argument that there are just too many guns in circulation in the US and that they can't all be removed, thus giving people the psychological impetus to feel they need to own a legal gun to protect from the illegal ones.  So you can't ban gun ownership.  Then don't.  



Ban the import and production of guns.  Destroy illegal guns as they are seized.  Increase penalties to and ease prosecution of people owning illegal guns.  People who own guns can keep them to protect themselves from the bogeyman.  People who want to own guns will have to pay an increasingly higher price to buy one from a decreasing stock.  Everyone will be hesitant to use their gun because its use will mean its destruction and a high price of replacement.



There are ways to control guns that overcome this perceived problem of only the criminals having guns.  You just don't want to.



And guns are not drugs.  They don't grow in fields.  A skilled blacksmith could handcraft a gun, but he's certainly not going to flood the market with them before he gets caught.  Banning import and production would rapidly decrease stock.

  Then we need to completely get rid of all weapons evetywhere. How realistic is that?

He's not saying to completely get rid of all weapons evetywhere.



What he's saying is stop importing them, stop making them in factories.



People will still own them, trade them, make them on their property.  Making them won't happen very often and the quality won't be reliable.

Quote from: "reel"Fair enough on your point that it has long been the case that peasants are outgunned by the military.  But then what real difference does it make if we are all toting handguns vs. hunting rifles?  To be honest, if it came down to civil insurrection, I'd rather have the hunting rifle.

QuoteAnd I'm not saying that it should be done, I'm saying that it's untrue to say that it can't be done if the will was there or that the result, if undertaken in this way would be that only criminals would have guns.

QuoteI personally have no interest in owning a gun because I think the sense of protection it brings is false barring an enormous breakdown in civil society, plus they are a big pain to get here.

QuoteThus I don't have one and I rest confident in the fact that few people do.

QuoteUnless you live autonomously in the bush, you cede personal autonomy to planners every day.  There's a long list of things that you don't have the right to do and my proposal does not add to that list.  You (if you were an American) would still have the right to own a gun.  You would just have more difficulty obtaining it.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"


Australia is awash in now illegal firearms since Port Arthur gave our assholes in power the much needed excuse to buy back by penalty of criminal law, anything they deemed unnecessary for the greater majority of legal and law abiding peoples. Many simply buried or safely hid whatever they had which wasn't registered. Criminals still act criminally. Not much has changed except the penalties.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"Lindt Cafe in Sydney last December, wasn't it? Rural Australia gets them somewhat regularly too. Mostly people known to other people but mass murders all the same.



2 teens attempted in the last couple weeks, one in Sydney and the other in Melbourne.



We don't get the numbers that the States do, but they're between 13-15 times our population here in Australia. All relative.

Quote from: "Dove"Mexican cartels saw people's heads off with chainsaws and hunting knives. I've seen videos. :o

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"Really asal? Someone killing a family of 4 is just a domestic murderer but the 15 year old kid last week in Parramatta, NSW who shot a police employee in the back at the cop shop before being taken down is a mass murderer?



You're weird.

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"Really asal? Someone killing a family of 4 is just a domestic murderer but the 15 year old kid last week in Parramatta, NSW who shot a police employee in the back at the cop shop before being taken down is a mass murderer?



You're weird.

Quote from: "Dove"Mexican cartels saw people's heads off with chainsaws and hunting knives. I've seen videos. :o

They don't need to, though. Bush and Obama regularly had firearms crossing the border for the cartels in the whole Fast and Furious scam. The decapitations were more for shock value.

Quote from: "reel"

Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"Armchair social engineers really shit me sometimes. They're always treating the overall quantity of life but avoid the hard questions about the quality of life and self determination. Every problem becomes a rubber stamping opportunity to make more broad policy instead of treating people as the responsible individuals they should be.



Makes me shake my head and worry about the continuance of our species sometimes.

You have to be quite the naïve, delusional idealist to believe that even a minority of individuals are capable of being responsible without some degree of social control.  Individualism is the American ideal, but like any ideal, it fails miserably when taken to the extreme.

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "SPECTRE"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "reel"You must be new here.



I'm not going to argue with you if you are going to get your panties all in a knot over a bit of light sparring.  You clearly did completely miss my point, just as you missed it in the original post.  Economics should not trump public safety.  It doesn't in any other industry.  Why should it in this one?  People are so intent on gun ownership that they make enormous concessions to protect it that are not permitted in any other area of society.

Sparring? Arguing? Missed you point? Are you high too when you go trolling? The debate was going well until you showed up asshole.

Herman, I like you and delight in your contributions to our little community..



But, reel is the furthest person you could find from a troll..



He is respected by myself, RW, Shen Li and cc la femme..



I understand you got off on the wrong foot, but I wanted to clear up any confusion about reel before this went any further.

I will take your word for it. It's water under the bridge now.

Don't be clouded by the testimonials.



Reel thinks far more of himself, and values his own opinion above all others.



If he knew half as much as he portrays, he'd be a genius.



And a genius, he aint.

Depending on the subject, I value my own opinion above all others too. On the topic of guns in the states, I don't believe restricting the production and supply chains will do stop the flow of new fire power. Dove, has been saying it has not worked with drugs. Even if the states severely restricted the production and distribution of a legal product by law, which will never happen, the black economy will pick up the slack.

QuoteTexas man kills wife with shotgun blast after incorrectly guessing she was an intruder



A Texas man shot and killed his wife after mistaking her for an intruder.



Police said the San Antonio man, whose name was not released, told them he heard some noises coming from the front of the house about 4 a.m. Saturday and saw a flash of light.



He grabbed a shotgun and went to investigate.



The man said he saw a light and someone standing at a distance, so he fired one blast from the shotgun.



That's when he realized he had shot his wife, 48-year-old Debora Kelly.



Police tried to resuscitate her when they arrived, but she was pronounced dead at the scene from a gunshot wound to her chest.



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/texas-man-kills-wife-with-shotgun-blast-after-incorrectly-guessing-she-was-an-intruder/

QuoteDallas Cowboys fans urge gunman to shoot helpless man in the head during tailgating brawl — and he does



The man who shot another man in the head after a Dallas Cowboys football game was reportedly egged on by the crowd of people watching the fight.



The New York Daily News reported that the shooting took place at AT&T stadium in Arlington about an hour after the New England Patriots beat the Dallas Cowboys 30-6.



Witnesses reported that the two men got into an argument, which escalated to a fistfight. Then, as the gunman held his weapon to the head of the victim, the crowd urged him to shoot, which he did.



Paramedics and police were called to the scene and the unnamed victim, a male in his early 40s, was taken to a local hospital with life-threatening injuries.



The shooter was apprehended by police after he tripped over a low retaining wall and injured his leg while trying to flee the scene.



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/dallas-cowboys-fans-urge-gunman-to-shoot-helpless-man-in-the-head-during-tailgating-brawl-and-he-does/

Quote from: "cc la femme"you will not change idiots from being idiots

Quote from: "cc la femme"nor stop there being guns in the US

Quote from: "cc la femme"Whatever. The will is to keep guns.



You guys can scream your guts out but you will never change the US. They are not asking for your advice and sure as hell won't listen to it

QuotePeople are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year



This week a 2-year-old in South Carolina found a gun in the back seat of the car he was riding in and accidentally shot his grandmother, who was sitting in the passenger seat. This type of thing happens from time to time: A little kid finds a gun, fires it, and hurts or kills himself or someone else. These cases rarely bubble up to the national level except when someone, like a parent, ends up dead.



But cases like this happen a lot more frequently than you might think. After spending a few hours sifting through news reports, I've found at least 43 instances this year of somebody being shot by a toddler 3 or younger. In 31 of those 43 cases, a toddler found a gun and shot himself or herself.



These numbers are probably an undercount. There are likely instances of toddlers shooting people that result in minor injuries and no media coverage. And there are probably many more cases where a little kid inadvertently shoots a gun and doesn't hit anyone, resulting in little more than a scared kid and (hopefully) chastened parents.



Notably, these numbers don't include cases where toddlers are shot, intentionally or otherwise, by older children or adults. Dozens of preschoolers are killed in acts of homicide each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.



//http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/

QuoteColorado man goes on murderous rampage after 911 dispatcher lectures panicked caller on open carry law



A neighbor might have helped stopped a Colorado man from killing three people as he roamed around with a military-style rifle, but the state's open carry law apparently prevented police from following up on her concerned report.



Naomi Bettis called 911 Saturday after spotting her neighbor, who she recognized but did not know by name, walking outside his home with an AR-15 rifle, reported the Denver Post.



"He did have a distraught look on his face," Bettis said. "It looked like he had a rough couple days or so."



However, the 911 dispatcher declined to send police and reminded Bettis that Colorado allows gun owners to legally and publicly carry their firearms out in the open.



Police eventually did respond — but not until 33-year-old Noah Harpham had already shot two women and a man with the rifle that had concerned his neighbor at least several minutes earlier.



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/colorado-man-goes-on-murderous-rampage-after-911-dispatcher-lectures-panicked-caller-on-open-carry-law/

QuoteLynne Russell: The Second Amendment saved my life



"If you don't want to carry please don't. Then, shut the fuck up about it."



Ex-CNN anchor Lynne Russell and her marksman husband fought off a robber during a deadly motel shootout in New Mexico, according police and a friend.



Russell's spouse, former Green Beret and investigative reporter Chuck De Caro, was hit three times during the gun battle but managed to kill the intruder. He reportedly underwent surgery on Wednesday and was expected to survive.



"Chuck is a bona fide hero," his longtime pal Patrick Clawson told the Daily News. "He saved Lynne's life."

Quote from: "Romero"

QuoteColorado man goes on murderous rampage after 911 dispatcher lectures panicked caller on open carry law



A neighbor might have helped stopped a Colorado man from killing three people as he roamed around with a military-style rifle, but the state's open carry law apparently prevented police from following up on her concerned report.



Naomi Bettis called 911 Saturday after spotting her neighbor, who she recognized but did not know by name, walking outside his home with an AR-15 rifle, reported the Denver Post.



"He did have a distraught look on his face," Bettis said. "It looked like he had a rough couple days or so."



However, the 911 dispatcher declined to send police and reminded Bettis that Colorado allows gun owners to legally and publicly carry their firearms out in the open.



Police eventually did respond — but not until 33-year-old Noah Harpham had already shot two women and a man with the rifle that had concerned his neighbor at least several minutes earlier.



//http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/colorado-man-goes-on-murderous-rampage-after-911-dispatcher-lectures-panicked-caller-on-open-carry-law/

Quote from: "Renee"

QuoteLynne Russell: The Second Amendment saved my life



"If you don't want to carry please don't. Then, shut the fuck up about it."



Ex-CNN anchor Lynne Russell and her marksman husband fought off a robber during a deadly motel shootout in New Mexico, according police and a friend.



Russell's spouse, former Green Beret and investigative reporter Chuck De Caro, was hit three times during the gun battle but managed to kill the intruder. He reportedly underwent surgery on Wednesday and was expected to survive.



"Chuck is a bona fide hero," his longtime pal Patrick Clawson told the Daily News. "He saved Lynne's life."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/07/06/lynne-russell-second-amendment-saved-my-life/

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Renee"

QuoteLynne Russell: The Second Amendment saved my life



"If you don't want to carry please don't. Then, shut the fuck up about it."



Ex-CNN anchor Lynne Russell and her marksman husband fought off a robber during a deadly motel shootout in New Mexico, according police and a friend.



Russell's spouse, former Green Beret and investigative reporter Chuck De Caro, was hit three times during the gun battle but managed to kill the intruder. He reportedly underwent surgery on Wednesday and was expected to survive.



"Chuck is a bona fide hero," his longtime pal Patrick Clawson told the Daily News. "He saved Lynne's life."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/07/06/lynne-russell-second-amendment-saved-my-life/

Would the guy had been shot if he didn't have a gun and decide to play hero?

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Renee"

QuoteLynne Russell: The Second Amendment saved my life



"If you don't want to carry please don't. Then, shut the fuck up about it."



Ex-CNN anchor Lynne Russell and her marksman husband fought off a robber during a deadly motel shootout in New Mexico, according police and a friend.



Russell's spouse, former Green Beret and investigative reporter Chuck De Caro, was hit three times during the gun battle but managed to kill the intruder. He reportedly underwent surgery on Wednesday and was expected to survive.



"Chuck is a bona fide hero," his longtime pal Patrick Clawson told the Daily News. "He saved Lynne's life."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/07/06/lynne-russell-second-amendment-saved-my-life/

Would the guy had been shot if he didn't have a gun and decide to play hero?

I don't think anyone was "playing" hero. From what I've read Chuck De Caro had just come out of the shower and was naked during the ordeal. I don't think he was looking to "play" hero with his junk hanging out. :laugh:



Accounts state that the assailant fired first and the Albuquerque police have ruled the shooting self defense. Regardless no one has the right to force you at gun point into a room for God knows what purpose. IMHO, the prep got everything he deserved. In a situation like that you have no idea what the assailant is capable of or what his or her intentions are. You have to make a decision to either be a piece of meat and cower in the corner or step up and defend yourself. I for one am tired of this idea that you have to just meekly submit while you are fucking violated by some scumbag.



If you are a CCW holder you have to know when to shoot and what constitutes a legal shoot and act accordingly. I'd say under the given circumstance the right decision was made. That is why conscientious CCW permit holders train and attend classes taught by law enforcement personnel on the responsibilities of concealed carry. Also given the fact that Chuck De Caro is an ex member of special forces he is probably better qualified to make a life or death decision than most.

Quote from: "RW"He handle it.



I just wonder what would have happened had he not got into a gun fight with the perp.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "RW"He handle it.



I just wonder what would have happened had he not got into a gun fight with the perp.

Dead or worse.

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "RW"He handle it.



I just wonder what would have happened had he not got into a gun fight with the perp.

Dead or worse.