THeBlueCashew

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"The NT....wasn't written in English. Are you asking for a long winded class on greek and hermenuetics, or do you want to just take our word for it?  People laugh at Christians because they are ignorant of why we believe what we believe and make assumptions. Arrogantly. Like you just did. I could in depth on this if you'd like. You'll be subjected to several scriptures though.

What was it written in?



How, then, did it become English?

 Greek. It was translated from greek, with the exception of a few translated from greek to Latin to English, like kjv 1611, I believe.  It's a whole, interesting and time consuming endeavor to study on.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"Lust is a strong desire for something.  If that's the case, why it is I can't lust for my husband?

 You can. In a marriage it's not lust. In fact, biblically, your husband can't deny you unless he is fasting/praying.  He HAS to put out.  Lol.

Why is it not lust?

 Because you are joined with that person.  It's not lust. Lust is a drive for things that are not yours. Like coveting, only sexual.

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"The NT....wasn't written in English. Are you asking for a long winded class on greek and hermenuetics, or do you want to just take our word for it?  People laugh at Christians because they are ignorant of why we believe what we believe and make assumptions. Arrogantly. Like you just did. I could in depth on this if you'd like. You'll be subjected to several scriptures though.

What was it written in?



How, then, did it become English?

 Greek. It was translated from greek, with the exception of a few translated from greek to Latin to English, like kjv 1611, I believe.  It's a whole, interesting and time consuming endeavor to study on.

So how did it come to be written in Greek?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Love is love.  Lust is lust.  Human nature is to procreate and extend our species.  Sex is a physical act. Period. It's not all the other shit that's been piled onto it over the centuries.



You talk about failed urges but it begs the question of if we were allowed to follow true human nature without religious rules, would we have broken homes and porn and STDs?

Quote from: "J0E"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

If you don't mind me asking, by any chance, did your previous experience as an Exotic Dancer have anything to do with your condemnation of Lust as a sin, Dove?



Were there certain experiences which shaped your beliefs?



Or would you prefer not to answer/talk about them?

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Love is love.  Lust is lust.  Human nature is to procreate and extend our species.  Sex is a physical act. Period. It's not all the other shit that's been piled onto it over the centuries.



You talk about failed urges but it begs the question of if we were allowed to follow true human nature without religious rules, would we have broken homes and porn and STDs?

 You see "religious rules" where God speaks of freedom from the bondage of our flesh. You don't follow rules to "be good". You don't follow rules, period.  God changes your nature. You become a new creation.  You still sin, but you aren't bound to it.   In the secular world, lust is fine and sex is simply physicsl. There is no sin.  So....asking if it is a sin is opening up a dialog about the biblical view.  But, if sex was just a drive to procreate.  ....there wouldn't be so much abortion flying around and plenty of women have sex to feel loved. It's not just physical. If it were as meaningless as you presented, why would anyone bother "piling all that other" stuff on it?  Why all the fuss?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Love is love.  Lust is lust.  Human nature is to procreate and extend our species.  Sex is a physical act. Period. It's not all the other shit that's been piled onto it over the centuries.



You talk about failed urges but it begs the question of if we were allowed to follow true human nature without religious rules, would we have broken homes and porn and STDs?

 You see "religious rules" where God speaks of freedom from the bondage of our flesh. You don't follow rules to "be good". You don't follow rules, period.  God changes your nature. You become a new creation.  You still sin, but you aren't bound to it.   In the secular world, lust is fine and sex is simply physicsl. There is no sin.  So....asking if it is a sin is opening up a dialog about the biblical view.  But, if sex was just a drive to procreate.  ....there wouldn't be so much abortion flying around and plenty of women have sex to feel loved. It's not just physical. If it were as meaningless as you presented, why would anyone bother "piling all that other" stuff on it?  Why all the fuss?

Did you ever consider that maybe religion perverted sex to be more than just physical?

Quote from: "RW"Yes I'm aware of the Bible's take on human nature.  It pretty much says it's all wrong and applies rules against it.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"Well you can but the goal is to avoid it. Focus on the attraction and the person, who they are, and forming a friendship. Alot of courting Christian couples make a point to avoid situations that would inspire lust taking over.  I'm not really one to talk, because lust is a major struggle for most.  Married people are supposed to keep each other satisfied to avoid pre occupation with intense sexual desire.  Which is also a challange.  Alot of honest reflection, prayer, and bring intentional in thought and action. The more you entertain thoughts the bigger they get, the harder it is to overcome.  We will never be entirely free of sin....hence, God's grace.

Personally, I think it's merely a means of control to make wrong basic human instincts such as lust.  We are supposed to have strong sexual desires.  It's human nature.  So is the bible saying that God created us with basic instincts then turned around and made them sins?



Sounds fishy to me.

 Well look at the fruit of human lust.  Stds, broken families, porn, abuse, human trafficking, sex addiction, et.   Yes, God gave us sexual desire. Then humans fell, and because of that, we are all born spiritually dead and in our flesh, sin nature.  So we have flawed "urges".   God's design was for one man and one woman to come together and become one. To love and take care of eachother.  Sex is more than a physical release, it's a joining of two people. There is a Hebrew word which describes this love as a bonding, mingling of souls.  Compare how we approach sex, and what God intended it for....and you see how our fallen nature destroyed it.  Like our greed destroying creation. I guess you have to have a good understanding and grasp on total depravity and what we were, and what creation was meant to be.

Love is love.  Lust is lust.  Human nature is to procreate and extend our species.  Sex is a physical act. Period. It's not all the other shit that's been piled onto it over the centuries.



You talk about failed urges but it begs the question of if we were allowed to follow true human nature without religious rules, would we have broken homes and porn and STDs?

 You see "religious rules" where God speaks of freedom from the bondage of our flesh. You don't follow rules to "be good". You don't follow rules, period.  God changes your nature. You become a new creation.  You still sin, but you aren't bound to it.   In the secular world, lust is fine and sex is simply physicsl. There is no sin.  So....asking if it is a sin is opening up a dialog about the biblical view.  But, if sex was just a drive to procreate.  ....there wouldn't be so much abortion flying around and plenty of women have sex to feel loved. It's not just physical. If it were as meaningless as you presented, why would anyone bother "piling all that other" stuff on it?  Why all the fuss?

Did you ever consider that maybe religion perverted sex to be more than just physical?

Quote from: "RW"Yes I'm aware of the Bible's take on human nature.  It pretty much says it's all wrong and applies rules against it.

Quote from: "RW"Yet it denies we should feel all the sexual things that gets us to marriage.



Maybe humans aren't even cut out to be married hence the infidelity and broken homes.

Quote from: "Dove"Sexual things shouldn't ever be a motivating factor in marriage, and this is probably why people feel entitled to cheat and why so many marriages fail. Again, if it's just some physical act, why base marriage on it?

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "RW"Yet it denies we should feel all the sexual things that gets us to marriage.



Maybe humans aren't even cut out to be married hence the infidelity and broken homes.

Yes, I know secular marriage often leads to infidelity and broken homes.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"Yes I'm aware of the Bible's take on human nature.  It pretty much says it's all wrong and applies rules against it.

 It provides freedom from it. Not rules against it.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Fashionista"

Quote from: "RW"Yet it denies we should feel all the sexual things that gets us to marriage.



Maybe humans aren't even cut out to be married hence the infidelity and broken homes.

Yes, I know secular marriage often leads to infidelity and broken homes.

Oh yeah Fash, it's limited to secular marriages only.



 :001_rolleyes:

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"The NT....wasn't written in English. Are you asking for a long winded class on greek and hermenuetics, or do you want to just take our word for it?  People laugh at Christians because they are ignorant of why we believe what we believe and make assumptions. Arrogantly. Like you just did. I could in depth on this if you'd like. You'll be subjected to several scriptures though.

What was it written in?



How, then, did it become English?

 Greek. It was translated from greek, with the exception of a few translated from greek to Latin to English, like kjv 1611, I believe.  It's a whole, interesting and time consuming endeavor to study on.

So how did it come to be written in Greek?

Because Paul wrote it in greek, to greek churches such as the one in Rome (romans) the one in Corith (corinthians) et.  During acts, pentecost,  the apostles were given the ability to speak in tongues they didn't know in order to preach gospel to gentiles. Also, Luke wasn't jewish. Hebrew/greek are the languages of the original texts.

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"

Quote from: "Dove"The NT....wasn't written in English. Are you asking for a long winded class on greek and hermenuetics, or do you want to just take our word for it?  People laugh at Christians because they are ignorant of why we believe what we believe and make assumptions. Arrogantly. Like you just did. I could in depth on this if you'd like. You'll be subjected to several scriptures though.

What was it written in?



How, then, did it become English?

 Greek. It was translated from greek, with the exception of a few translated from greek to Latin to English, like kjv 1611, I believe.  It's a whole, interesting and time consuming endeavor to study on.

So how did it come to be written in Greek?

Because Paul wrote it in greek, to greek churches such as the one in Rome (romans) the one in Corith (corinthians) et.  During acts, pentecost,  the apostles were given the ability to speak in tongues they didn't know in order to preach gospel to gentiles. Also, Luke wasn't jewish. Hebrew/greek are the languages of the original texts.

Was Paul a Greek?

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"Yes I'm aware of the Bible's take on human nature.  It pretty much says it's all wrong and applies rules against it.

 It provides freedom from it. Not rules against it.

That's a big ole pile of BULLSHIT right there.



Hahaha

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"Yes I'm aware of the Bible's take on human nature.  It pretty much says it's all wrong and applies rules against it.

 It provides freedom from it. Not rules against it.

That's a big ole pile of BULLSHIT right there.



Hahaha

 I'm a reformed, 5 point Calvinist. I'm not catholic. I strongly disagree with catholics. In fact, I view them as pagan heretics who butcher scripture.  So....if you please stop trying to argue against that nonsense with me as if I take the Catholic stance, that'd be great.

Quote from: "Dove"It's really frustrating to be attempting to shed light on the biblical world view and how it applies to what we see happening, when you continually make it about your personal issues. Not everyone who grew up in a religious home was sexually repressed.  And yeah, it's not about rules actually....we have already discussed this. I told what the Bible says. I'm not telling you to agree with it.  I'm also not getting all flipped out about it. The reality is, casual sex is more linked to low self esteem, depression, all kinds of issues than it is with health. You don't need to read the bible to get that info. Most credible psych studies have shown it. But please, let's talk about how you were abused with biblical cherry picking again. By all means. *eyeroll*   Then when I point out again, how that was wrong and actually not a reflection of what scripture teaches, you can defend the religious system that repressed you...again. no thanks.  I made my point anyway.

Quote from: "Dove"I was a Calvinist, before I really knew it was Calvinist. Lol.  The five points are right there plain as day in the bible.  I was raised in a pentecostal climate during the Copeland era, so, I didn't have a great opinion on the church for a long time.  I don't understand why people continually thrust the Catholic stance on Christians like this. It's like having strawmans fired at you like machine gun rounds.  You tell them over and over catholic isn't Christian and how, but they still go off as if catholic beliefs still apply somehow. RW isn't the only one I've seem do this. It just confirms my stance on the rc. It is not of God.

Quote from: "Dove"We don't believe in shame or works based salvation though....so....yeah.

Quote from: "Dove"You missed the point entirely. You should have spent less time looking to humans and more time studying scripture. Then this shame thing would make sense. And you'd know creationism isn't just 3 chapters.  And that...it's not following rules.  You know a lot about corrupt religious systems and you don't know squat about God, or the bible.  I'm not just not engaging this anymore. You want a whipping post for your emotional issues with beliefs I don't have. It's really aggressive and bizzare.

Quote from: "Dove"I wasn't repressed. I was assulted. There is no comparison here.  But I think you keep forgetting I was raised in a harsh religious environmrnt. They were good at throwing out of context scripture too.   It never occurred to me there was a difference in what religion says and what scripture says until I took ALOT if time to dig into it myself.  Scripture interprets scripture. People dont. It interprets itself.   Even Christ Himself warned of false teachers and man centered religious systems and works based 'salvation'.  We all sin, we have a sin nature, what's the point of shame?   We are instructed to not be ashamed. That we are justified by faith, alone, not by works. I just quoted scripture. You clearly are operating under catholic belief, because there is literally nothing biblically Christian in your complaints.

Quote from: "Dove"You just cannot expand your thinking, can you?  Believe what you want.  But, learn to respect the beliefs of other instead tossing your world view like it's the basis for reality.  I could easily say everything you believe is bullshit and go off about how my mom oversexualized me and the damage it did. I don't though.  Again, I don't think you want to have meaningful discussions leading to a deeper understanding. I think you actually believe you have figured it all out, have completely shut down to any view that opposes yours and only argue to be right. That's closeminded. I've given my views on structured religion several times. Deaf ears, deaf ears.  You'll never understand the spiritual aspects of Scripture if you keep throwing it into religious context. You seemingly refuse to listen to those who have broken past man made religion.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"You just cannot expand your thinking, can you?  Believe what you want.  But, learn to respect the beliefs of other instead tossing your world view like it's the basis for reality.  I could easily say everything you believe is bullshit and go off about how my mom oversexualized me and the damage it did. I don't though.  Again, I don't think you want to have meaningful discussions leading to a deeper understanding. I think you actually believe you have figured it all out, have completely shut down to any view that opposes yours and only argue to be right. That's closeminded. I've given my views on structured religion several times. Deaf ears, deaf ears.  You'll never understand the spiritual aspects of Scripture if you keep throwing it into religious context. You seemingly refuse to listen to those who have broken past man made religion.

HAHAHA!  I was RAISED within religion.  I had to get out of that shit to expand my thinking.

Quote from: "RW"



Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"



Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"



Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

I agree that the construct of religion is part of the human condition but that doesn't mean it's controlling rules don't go against our human nature.  



I said sex was a physical act and it is.



Please don't assume you know anything about my marriage because you'd find yourself being very wrong.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"



Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

I agree that the construct of religion is part of the human condition but that doesn't mean it's controlling rules don't go against our human nature.  



I said sex was a physical act and it is.



Please don't assume you know anything about my marriage because you'd find yourself being very wrong.

 Sex is not just physical.  Back the claim.   I don't know crap about your marriage.  But if Sex WAS just physical, no one would care about monogamy. It ain't taking a bike ride with friend or a handshske, rw. It's an intimate joining.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"



Cut the crap Dove. Quit making excuses for religion's fight against human nature.

  Religion is part of human nature. Just saying.  And trying to compare healthy balanced attractions and compatability to lust is a fallicy, as is claiming sex is a meaningless physical act.  If that's true, you'd be cool with your husband doing it with whomever he wishes....and we both know you wouldnt.

I agree that the construct of religion is part of the human condition but that doesn't mean it's controlling rules don't go against our human nature.  



I said sex was a physical act and it is.



Please don't assume you know anything about my marriage because you'd find yourself being very wrong.

 Sex is not just physical.  Back the claim.   I don't know crap about your marriage.  But if Sex WAS just physical, no one would care about monogamy. It ain't taking a bike ride with friend or a handshske, rw. It's an intimate joining.

Quote from: "Dove"
Yes, we are all aware of personal issues around sex.  You've made it all very clear for us thank you. / well, in all fairness, you've been bringing your religious srxual oppression as if it somehow debunks lust as a sin. It doesnt.

QuoteScripture will say whatever the hell you want it to say or whatever someone else pushes you to believe it says.  It's why we have so many religions in the first place./ this is what is called a fallicy.  Back this claim.

QuoteLast time I checked, Catholics and Christians read the same Bible./ check again. The Catholic bible is different. They do NOT read the same bible.

QuoteThe bible is pretty clear on shame.  It says don't feel shame when you are doing things to honour God like testifying about him and Jesus but it says sin is always a cause for shame because sin is behavior that dishonours God (See Ezekiel, Romans, and Thessalonians for details)./ likewise, see Psalms, Luke, John, Romans, et. Also I'd like to see the exact verses and explore your exegesis.

QuoteWhat you aren't getting is that sex and human nature existed before religion.  Before marriage and all the rest of this scripture crap./ what YOU are getting is that God existed before any of it. Unless you have found, and can provide strong for the cause of the universe. The God of the bible we are discussing created the universe....so....He is the first, in caused cause.  We could go into the cosmological argument and go the way of apologetics. But you'd have to get over this whole "religion! Religion!"  stuff. and get objective.

QuoteI just realised that you don't believe in life before religion./ I don't believe in religion, as I've stated SEVERAL TIMES.  I also don't believe in the whole flipping universe suddenly poofing itself into existence and life booming from non life and magically arranging itself into every living species we see today, and since the bible has more evidence to its truth than any other "religious" text and I've personally experienced the healing power of God, I'm not blindly following a random belief system I pulled out of hat. But thank you, for the assumptions.

Quote from: "RW"Oh good.  It means you're human.

Quote from: "Mr Crowley"So, would someone please explain to me why what is written in the bible is sacrosanct?

Quote from: "Herman"

Quote from: "RW"Oh good.  It means you're human.

Dove and Fash are human too, even though they put their trust in dieties. It's not for me, but it does not affect me either, so I do not care.

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"

Quote from: "Dove"

Quote from: "RW"Lust is a strong desire for something.  If that's the case, why it is I can't lust for my husband?

 You can. In a marriage it's not lust. In fact, biblically, your husband can't deny you unless he is fasting/praying.  He HAS to put out.  Lol.

Why is it not lust?

 Because you are joined with that person.  It's not lust. Lust is a drive for things that are not yours. Like coveting, only sexual.

QuoteAs debate intensifies over whether to release President Clinton's video-taped testimony to the grand jury, the head of the Judiciary committee, which has the power to launch impeachment proceedings, has suddenly come under the spotlight.



Henry Hyde, chair of the House of Representatives' Judiciary Committee, has admitted to carrying on a five-year relationship with a younger married woman 30 years ago.



Henry Hyde, then 41-years-old and married, was a lawyer and rising star in Republican state politics. When asked, he described the relationship as a "youthful indiscretion" and labelled the allegations as an attempt to intimidate him.



The affair



The story broke when Salon, a politically influential San Francisco-based Internet magazine, published a story chartering Mr Hyde's affair with Cherie Snodgrass, a former beautician. The headline read: This hypocrite broke up my family, The secret affair of Henry Hyde, the man who will judge President Clinton.



According to the article, Mr Hyde's relationship with Mrs Snodgrass, who had three small children, lasted from 1965 to 1969.



Henry Hyde released the following statement: "Suffice it to say Cherie Snodgrass and I were good friends a long, long time ago. After Mr Snodgrass confronted my wife, the friendship ended and my marriage remained intact."



"The only purpose for this being dredged up now is an obvious attempt to intimidate me and it won't work. I intend to fulfil my constitutional duty."



Fred Snodgrass, a 76-year-old Florida retiree, and Cherie Snodgrass's former husband said Henry Hyde was a "hypocrite" who broke up his family.



Republicans defend Hyde



The House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, a Republican, reacted to the story saying, "It is sad that the president's attack dogs don't know the difference between breaking the law and making a mistake decades ago."



"Nobody doubts the credibility of Henry Hyde. Nobody doubts his sense of fairness and his sense of honor," he added.



In an editorial accompanying the story, Salon Magazine, a self-proclaimed "outspoken critic of Kenneth Starr's investigation", insisted that publishing the piece was not a "pro-Clinton" gesture.



The editorial went on to suggest that in the "brave new world" created by the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, private lives of public figures are no longer off limits.



Revelations about other Congressmen and women were predicted. Almost as soon as he received the Starr report, Mr Hyde warned fellow committee members that the president's supporters might try to dig up dirt on them.



He called it a "scorched earth" policy - suggesting that members of Congress sitting in judgement on the president will themselves be judged.