Quote
A landmark Charter challenge on the right of homeless people to affordable housing is dead.
The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that it would not hear an appeal of a lower court's decision to quash the case, essentially upholding the view that legislatures, not the courts, are the place to fight homelessness.
"It think it's fair to say we are all shocked," said lawyer Tracy Heffernan, of the Advocacy Centre for Tenants Ontario, one of several lawyers acting for the applicants on the case.
"The decision has denied hundreds of thousands of visible and invisible homeless across the country the right to be heard," she said. "But the court has also sent a clear signal to government: It is time to step up and take action to address this national emergency."
The Centre for Equality Rights in Accommodation (CERA) and four homeless and precariously housed Torontonians launched the Charter challenge in May 2010.
They claimed homelessness and inadequate housing violate human rights under sections of the Charter that guarantee "security of the person" and the right to equality.
By failing to implement policies that would reduce and eventually eliminate homelessness and substandard housing, they argued, Ottawa and Queen's Park are violating the Charter.
As a remedy, they wanted the court to order governments to develop national and provincial housing strategies to address the crisis.
In a motion to block the case from going forward, the federal and provincial governments argues that the Charter does not include a general right to housing or oblige governments to provide social assistance and housing support. Moreover, economic and social policies are political matters beyond the scope of the court, they added.
Ontario's Superior Court agreed and dismissed the case in September 2013. The Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the ruling last December.
Although Thursday's decision was a blow to the national "right-to-housing" movement behind the Charter challenge, it puts the spotlight back on government to address the crisis, Heffernan said.
"We really hope to see the crisis in homelessness and affordable housing squarely on the political agenda," she said. "Part of that means that whoever wins the (upcoming federal) election really needs to draft a national housing policy."
Ontario has vowed to eliminate homelessness as part of its latest anti-poverty strategy, announced last fall.
Ottawa has argued it is addressing the problem in partnership with the provinces through its Investment in Affordable Housing program.
An estimated 235,000 people are homeless on any given night in Canada, according to a recent report. Many more "hidden homeless" are living in inadequate or unstable housing.
1. Do you feel access to affordable housing for homeless people is necessary in fulfilling the "security of person" Charter right?
2. What rights, if any, do we have to keep homeless people safe from the elements or safe on the streets from abuse, etc?
3. If the government has no responsibility in keeping homeless people safe, who should be responsible for the care of these people? Non-profits? Charities? Churches?
No about this failed legal challenge, but I saw on the news there are 2250 homeless veterans in Canada.
:shock:
1. Do you feel access to affordable housing for homeless people is necessary in fulfilling the "security of person" Charter right?
No. Their plight is their own responsibility. It is not incumbent upon us to compensate them for being irresponsible and stupid.
2. What rights, if any, do we have to keep homeless people safe from the elements or safe on the streets from abuse, etc?
None. See above. Its THEIR choice, not yours.
3. If the government has no responsibility in keeping homeless people safe, who should be responsible for the care of these people? Non-profits? Charities? Churches?[/quote]
THEY are responsible for their own fate!!!
BUT, it must be clear that we need to distinguish between homelessness through reckless stupid, and homelessness due to mental illness. Yes, the demarcation line is not always distinct, but we DO need to do more to help those who can not, as opposed to will not, help themselves.
I was going to say...
Mental illness is related to homelessness. Addiction is also considered an illness. As Fash pointed out about veterans being homeless - how many of those are drowning their PTSD with a bottle. Who should help those people and should they be entitled to access housing?
Also is shelter not a basic human right?
There are many basic human rights. The right to vote, for example. But not all humans avail themselves of such rights. A right is not an obligation.
The government should assist and support the mentally ill with specialised housing and accommodation. That is an obligation. The government should not be assisting those who have failed themselves.
Where do you draw that line? Where does addiction fall?
Voting is also not a basic human right. We're talking food, shelter, water...
Quote from: "RW"
Mental illness is related to homelessness. Addiction is also considered an illness. As Fash pointed out about veterans being homeless - how many of those are drowning their PTSD with a bottle. Who should help those people and should they be entitled to access housing?
The homeless, drug addicts and lunatics(often one is all 3) should be used for medical and industrial research. Give back to society for once in their fucking miserable taker lives.
Like those Veterans?
Quote from: "RW"
I didn't say that.
Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
The government should assist and support the mentally ill with specialised housing and accommodation. That is an obligation. The government should not be assisting those who have failed themselves.
Then churches, private businesses, citizens, NGO's and charities must do it, but these people need a roof over their heads or they will die.
:sad:
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
The government should assist and support the mentally ill with specialised housing and accommodation. That is an obligation. The government should not be assisting those who have failed themselves.
Then churches, private businesses, citizens, NGO's and charities must do it, but these people need a roof over their heads or they will die.
:sad:
Only if the roof over their heads is covering the places where their bodies are used for live medical and industrial research.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
The government should assist and support the mentally ill with specialised housing and accommodation. That is an obligation. The government should not be assisting those who have failed themselves.
Then churches, private businesses, citizens, NGO's and charities must do it, but these people need a roof over their heads or they will die.
:sad:
Only if the roof over their heads is covering the places where their bodies are used for live medical and industrial research.
:001_rolleyes:
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I say yes. Quote
It's absurd that murderers get a warm place to sleep but those who wouldn't hurt a fly have to freeze to death outside.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote
I say yes. Quote
It's absurd that murderers get a warm place to sleep but those who wouldn't hurt a fly have to freeze to death outside.
I say no.
Wouldn't hurt a fly? They'd slit ur throat for your phone, a bottle of big bear or to fuck ur sister. They're animals who serve no useful purpose other than to keep emergency services unnecessarily busy.
Where the hell do you live??? :shock:
Yeah. Those are some nasty homeless people. ac_wot
Quote from: "RW"
In a good area with no homeless scumbags.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "RW"
I didn't say that.
I asked that.
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "RW"
I didn't say that.
I asked that.
No, we have quite a few Afghan vets in this city with PTSD.
I wonder how the homeless shelters manage all those murderous fuckers :ohmy:
Quote from: "RW"
I hope the Herb let's them kill each other.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I meet lots of homeless people each Christmas working the kettles..
Some are very aggressive, some are not..
Some have very interesting stories to tell.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Some are very aggressive, some are not..
Some have very interesting stories to tell.
You mean kettles as in donations?
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Some are very aggressive, some are not..
Some have very interesting stories to tell.
You mean kettles as in donations?
That's right easter bunny, I have been doing it for years..
I meet some interesting people while volunteering..
Some of the most fascinating are street people.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Some are very aggressive, some are not..
Some have very interesting stories to tell.
You mean kettles as in donations?
That's right easter bunny, I have been doing it for years..
I meet some interesting people while volunteering..
Some of the most fascinating are street people.
Somehow I'm not surprised you would be a volunteer. You seem like the type. So sweet. =)
I grew up in an affluent area just north of San Francisco. Marin county. Sausalito, Tiburon, Belvedere, Mill Valley. The county seat is San Rafael. Don't live there any more. Last 2 times I was back, I could not believe the amount of homeless who have taken over San Rafael. They hang in the streets most of the day. Eat at the St. Vincent de Paul homeless kitchen. 3 Xs a day. Then migrate to the parks and other hideouts for the night. In a city of about 100,000, 20,000 are homeless living in the streets. San Rafael is a sanctuary city, which meant illegals would not be harassed. San Rafael has evolved into a homeless haven. I am told that a homeless person can board a public bus and be dropped of in San Rafael for free. Pan handlers can make up to $300. per day. I like to think of myself as a understanding, thoughtful liberal. What I see when I go back makes me ill. At the same time a 1200 sq. foot tract home is going for 1.4 million. How does this scenario equate?
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
My gosh Twenty Dollars, that is amazing..
I don't know what to say..
How did an affluent community turn into a magnet for homeless people?
And what is the connection with illegals? Are they homeless too?
I believe it was the Catholic Parish that helped to set this sanctuary city concept up. Lots of Latinos came north to work in the 90s. They were not ever arrested, unless a crime was committed. Related to the Homeless, I really do t know. It just kind of carried over. Clearly the Bay Area is a liberal place. Marin is a liberal place enhabited by folks with means. I think many are in denial about it, and maybe used to it. When I go back, I sometimes stay with my ex wife. She is aware of it, but doesn't seem to bother her. She lives in a nice neighborhood. I remember the last time I was back getting some money at an ATM machine down town. 3 homeless creeps looking over my shoulder. Weird huh?
It's a city of Haves and Have-Nots
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
If a person can make a couple of hundred panhandling who's not the type who can hold a job, why not? There are two really nice parks in town, however you'd not want to take a stroll after dark through either one of them. Funny, in 3rd world countries one sees poverty, but rarely homelessness.
Do you think someone should be responsible for ensuring these folks have a place to sleep?
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
If a person can make a couple of hundred panhandling who's not the type who can hold a job, why not? There are two really nice parks in town, however you'd not want to take a stroll after dark through either one of them. Funny, in 3rd world countries one sees poverty, but rarely homelessness.
I have heard stories about professional panhandlers. Guys using wheelchairs, with dogs pretending to be blind, women using a small child as guilt prop. I do not give to any of them. Well no, if someone is honest and says I am short for a bottle I will throw him a twoonie.
Quote from: "RW"
If they are making two hundred bones a day like Twenty Dollars says, they do have a place to sleep. Probably a nice one too.
I won't give anything to people on the streets any more. The last guy I did, hugged me and kissed my neck with his frothy mouth. That was the end of that for me.
Quote from: "RW"
Ugly old farts like me do not have to worry about that ac_toofunny
I will give a little money if there is honesty. Bullshit me and you can talk to the hand.
Quote from: "RW"
My answer would be no.
I think there is a solution somewhere here. I think it should be that homeless people should be allowed to set up temp shelters (tents) between certain hours in certain places.
Quote from: "RW"
As long as it's not on my land.
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
If a person can make a couple of hundred panhandling who's not the type who can hold a job, why not? There are two really nice parks in town, however you'd not want to take a stroll after dark through either one of them.
Independence is valued in this culture.
Quote from: "RW"
I say yes, but questions like who, how, how much I don't know.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
If a person can make a couple of hundred panhandling who's not the type who can hold a job, why not? There are two really nice parks in town, however you'd not want to take a stroll after dark through either one of them.
Independence is valued in this culture.
That's a very good point. It's almost like a communism/capitalism thing.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
Hawaii has a big homeless problem too. What an expensive place to live. SF is too of course.
If a person can make a couple of hundred panhandling who's not the type who can hold a job, why not? There are two really nice parks in town, however you'd not want to take a stroll after dark through either one of them.
Independence is valued in this culture.
That's a very good point. It's almost like a communism/capitalism thing.
Families are interdependent in most of the world, but not here..
Not having a home means you are ostracized by your family in most of the world.
Dysfunctional seems to be the norm here. =P
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I dislike using that word, but we do seem to be in a hurry and get our children out on their own two feet and often before they are ready for it..
That's only my own personal observation.
People here are obsessed with collecting toys and having a good time. Kids are treated like a nuisance. It's a formula for extinction. =(
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
I used to have my doubts but not anymore. =)
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
I used to have my doubts but not anymore. =)
Oh that's wonderful easter bunny.
ac_smile
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
I used to have my doubts but not anymore. =)
Oh that's wonderful easter bunny.
ac_smile
I think from now on when someone asks for proof that God exists I'm just going to point at you. ac_wub
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
I used to have my doubts but not anymore. =)
Oh that's wonderful easter bunny.
ac_smile
I think from now on when someone asks for proof that God exists I'm just going to point at you. ac_wub
acc_hugz
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
I see parents obsessed with giving their children all the toys they ask for in some cases..
That's not a good formula either..
I agree. Kids have to learn the word
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Are you married and have children easter bunny?
Not yet. =)
There are two kinds of extremes, parents that can't say no and parents that always say no..
God will provide a lovely wife for you easter bunny.
ac_smile
I used to have my doubts but not anymore. =)
Oh that's wonderful easter bunny.
ac_smile
I think from now on when someone asks for proof that God exists I'm just going to point at you. ac_wub
acc_hugz
All kidding aside, you really are awe inspiring. =)
acc_hugz
^Can we get back on topic here. Have any of you ever lived in the hood? I did and it sucked. The reason is the fucking animals that run wild there and are less civilized than the 4-legged variety in the zoo.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
The place I grew up in is like that now. You couldn't pay me to live there.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
The place I grew up in is like that now. You couldn't pay me to live there.
We lived in Boyle Mccauley when we first came to Canada. Worst slum in Edmonton and one of the worst in Canada. We lived less than two blocks from my school(now closed) and I was not allowed to walk to or from by myself. Hookers beside the playground, used condoms, needles and tons and tons of beer/cheap wine bottles and cans scattered everywhere. I was a kid and I was being harassed for change by fucking adults. People bothering my parents every fucking time they left our apartment. Hookers, beggars, thieves and crackheads in our front foyer. Our apartment vandalized routinely. People trying to sneak into our apartment when we entered. Kids selling drugs for their mothers right on the street. It left a really bad taste in my mouth especially considering I came from a developing country to Canada not expecting to see South American style crime and hopelessness.
What got me is that these wastes of skin were exclusively white or Aboriginal? The Aboriginals were usually just alcohol/drug dependent, but the white ghetto-tards were not even human. They were evil lazy criminal slime. I have seen other hoods in Canada like Forest Lawn down in Calgary and and Regent Park in Toronto. They had a lot of immigrants and you could tell the next generation would not be living in the hood. In Boyle Mccauley I got the impression the next gen will be even worse than this one. They cannot be helped and any effort or expense would be better spent elsewhere.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
The place I grew up in is like that now. You couldn't pay me to live there.
We lived in Boyle Mccauley when we first came to Canada. Worst slum in Edmonton and one of the worst in Canada. We lived less than two blocks from my school(now closed) and I was not allowed to walk to or from by myself. Hookers, beside the playground, used condoms, needles and tons and tons of beer/cheap wine bottles and cans. I was a kid and I was being harassed for change by fucking adults. People bothering my parents every fucking time they left our apartment. Hookers, beggars, thieves and crackheads in our front foyer. Our vandalized routinely. People trying to sneak into our apartment when we entered. Kids selling drugs for their mothers right on the street. It left a really bad taste in my mouth especially considering I came from a developing country to Canada not expecting to see third world crime and hopelessness.
What got me is that these wastes of skin were exclusively white or Aboriginal? The Aboriginals were usually just alcohol/drug dependent, but the white ghetto-tards were not even human. They were evil lazy criminal slime. I have seen other hoods in Canada like Forest Lawn down in Calgary and and Regent Park in Toronto. They had a lot of immigrants and you could tell the next generation would not be living in the hood. In Boyle Mccauley I got the impression the next gen will be even worse than this one.
Free fentanyl! All you can eat! :wink:
Now that would be money well spent.
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
I won't give up hope though easter bunny.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
I won't give up hope though easter bunny.
Well there's always a chance, but you can't let anyone bring you down.
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
I won't give up hope though easter bunny.
Well there's always a chance, but you can't let anyone bring you down.
Giving up hope on people would really bring me down easter bunny.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
I won't give up hope though easter bunny.
Well there's always a chance, but you can't let anyone bring you down.
Giving up hope on people would really bring me down easter bunny.
ac_smile
Poverty does nothing for our country BTW. Not a damn thing. In fact, it brings us all down.
Quote from: "RW"
I agree with ya RW. Since those fucking white savages like the ones I lived around in Boyle Mccauley cannot be helped, they should help us. Use them for medical and industrial research. Their organs(the ones they haven't destroyed) can give life to those that deserve to live.
I live in an inner city, with an outreach mission. We take in stray people. There is a devasting amount of homeless people, children, et....none of which simply "failed themselces". I'm gonna be real honest, I know a lot of people on the streets I'd rather spend time with than what society labels "valuable successful people".
Quote from: "easter bunny"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Srsly though dude, I don't believe the white animals in my first neighbourHOOD in Canada can be saved. The immigrants in BM are there temporarily, but those white animals are lifers and then some. We have limited resources and we should use it for those that can be salvaged.
I know what you mean. Some people are just beyond help. Bottomless pits of wasted money and misery. That's just the way it is. =(
More times than not, with good reason.
Quote from: "Dove"
Fair enough, I would rather spend time with rabid dogs than some of the homless/street junkies and thugs I've seen.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Dove"
Fair enough, I would rather spend time with rabid dogs than some of the homless/street junkies and thugs I've seen.
Getting shanked is way less painful than rabids, mang. Lol. I live in the hood right now....but we are looking to purchase a home a few towns over. Still going to be active in this outreach, though.
Quote from: "Dove"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Dove"
Fair enough, I would rather spend time with rabid dogs than some of the homless/street junkies and thugs I've seen.
Getting shanked is way less painful than eabids, mang. Lol
You'd get both from the animals in my first neighbourhood in Canada.
Quote from: "RW"
2. What rights, if any, do we have to keep homeless people safe from the elements or safe on the streets from abuse, etc?
3. If the government has no responsibility in keeping homeless people safe, who should be responsible for the care of these people? Non-profits? Charities? Churches?
I support helping the homelessness. We should try to do something about the problem now before it gets worse. At the same time, if we provide them with housing, it shouldn't be free or without strings attached.
1. In granting them a place to live, I'd make the homeless individual give 25% of their welfare cheque and earnings from any employment they have.And the government would have access to their bank accounts, if any.
2. The individual would have to enter psychiatric care provided by the complex and drug/alcohol treatment as a condition of getting free housing.
3. The individual would have to 'work' for the complex/co-op they are housed in with a minimal make work type of employment of 20 hours a week. This could be gardening, security guard, cook, janitorial work, cleaning the streets, washing graffiti off the walls.
4. as a condition of getting free housing and meals, the homeless person could not panhandle or loiter the streets.
Quote from: "J0E"
Quote from: "RW"
2. What rights, if any, do we have to keep homeless people safe from the elements or safe on the streets from abuse, etc?
3. If the government has no responsibility in keeping homeless people safe, who should be responsible for the care of these people? Non-profits? Charities? Churches?
I support helping the homelessness. We should try to do something about the problem now before it gets worse. At the same time, if we provide them with housing, it shouldn't be free or without strings attached.
1. In granting them a place to live, I'd make the homeless individual give 25% of their welfare cheque and earnings from any employment they have.And the government would have access to their bank accounts, if any.
2. The individual would have to enter psychiatric care provided by the complex and drug/alcohol treatment as a condition of getting free housing.
3. The individual would have to 'work' for the complex/co-op they are housed in with a minimal make work type of employment of 20 hours a week. This could be gardening, security guard, cook, janitorial work, cleaning the streets, washing graffiti off the walls.
4. as a condition of getting free housing and meals, the homeless person could not panhandle or loiter the streets.
It sounds to me JOE, you are talking about building communal type housing along the lines of a work camp?
You don't like individual dwellings like apartments as a homelessness solution?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
You don't like individual dwellings like apartments as a homelessness solution?
Well Fashionista, I spoke with a homeless guy and he told me that housing shouldn't be given to them free. That they should have to work for it. And that's a homeless guy. He also said if it's all given away like candy, the homeless people will take it for granted and it will fall apart because there'll be no incentive to take care of it. So it's not really my idea, it was some homeless guy I spoke with whom I sometimes bump into and give $1 or $2 to outside the local convenience store.
Also, the newer social housing developments in Vancouver seem to all have round the clock security guards. They keep intruders out off the streeets, but they also watch their tenants and make sure they behave. One of the problems with places like Vancouver Downtown Eastside, is that many of these hotels along Hastings Street don't have any security guards, and all kinds of shit goes on inside them, like drug abuse, people pushing drugs, prostitution, and an assortment of other crimes. And that's where many of the problems in the city are coming from - this small stretch of 6 blocks of the city. If they could close the hotels down and relocate the people to new secure housing complex, that would greatly clean up the area and even revive it. Make it great again. That skid row area used to be decent. The make it that way again.
Anyways, I gotta friend who lives in that Olympic Village which was used to house athletes during the 2010 Winter Olympics. He managed to get a space there. However, the people running that place really watch the social housing inhabitants like a hawk. They can't misbehave, do drugs, have rowdy parties, be shit disturbers. Otherwise, they'll lose their place in this very privileged housing development. BTW, the paid housing units there go for upwards of a million dollars a piece. so in a way, it's not 'free'. They have to earn their keep to hang on to their right to live there. I thought the same approach could be used to help solve the homeless problem in Vancouver.
Quote from: "J0E"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
You don't like individual dwellings like apartments as a homelessness solution?
Well Fashionista, I spoke with a homeless guy and he told me that housing shouldn't be given to them free. That they should have to work for it. And that's a homeless guy. He also said if it's all given away like candy, the homeless people will take it for granted and it will fall apart because there'll be no incentive to take care of it. So it's not really my idea, it was some homeless guy I spoke with whom I sometimes bump into and give $1 or $2 to outside the local convenience store.
Also, the newer social housing developments in Vancouver seem to all have round the clock security guards. They keep intruders out off the streeets, but they also watch their tenants and make sure they behave. One of the problems with places like Vancouver Downtown Eastside, is that many of these hotels along Hastings Street don't have any security guards, and all kinds of shit goes on inside them, like drug abuse, people pushing drugs, prostitution, and an assortment of other crimes. And that's where many of the problems in the city are coming from - this small stretch of 6 blocks of the city. If they could close the hotels down and relocate the people to new secure housing complex, that would greatly clean up the area and even revive it. Make it great again. That skid row area used to be decent. The make it that way again.
Anyways, I gotta friend who lives in that Olympic Village which was used to house athletes during the 2010 Winter Olympics. He managed to get a space there. However, the people running that place really watch the social housing inhabitants like a hawk. They can't misbehave, do drugs, have rowdy parties, be shit disturbers. Otherwise, they'll lose their place in this very privileged housing development. BTW, the paid housing units there go for upwards of a million dollars a piece. so in a way, it's not 'free'. They have to earn their keep to hang on to their right to live there. I thought the same approach could be used to help solve the homeless problem in Vancouver.
Oh I see, self-contained communal living, thank you.
It does damage to people when they don't work for anything. They lose their sense of self worth. This is why I'm not a fan of welfare handouts. I believe people on aid should have to work a required amount of hours or be in a work readiness program, and should be provided with those resources. There is so much more we could be doing.
Quote from: "Dove"
I'm not either, but I'm even less of a fan of Joe's stories about people he's talked to. :negative:
Quote from: "Tabloid Joey making up another whopper "
:laugh: :roll: :roll:
Quote from: "cc la femme"
Quote from: "Tabloid Joey making up another whopper "
:laugh: :roll: :roll:
Anyways, unlike the hard-hearted posters completely lacking in compassion for others like our cc la femme, I feel sorry for the people who live on the streets. Unlike cc, I don't laugh at them.
It must be a tough life.
Here's a tune about those less fortunate which makes up for the deficit of human compassion that some show on this forum such as cc:
I tend to scroll past Joe's stories.
Quote from: "RW"
I am not that crazy about his petty shots at Renee and ceec either.