Title: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US State
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 12:03:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 12:03:01 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 12:21:43 PM
"Alberta as a U.S. state would not simply be rich – the richest in the Union, in fact – but would have a vibrantly well-financed and diverse economy that would put its former (and a lot of its new-found) countrymen to shame," writes Zeihan.Quote
Zeihan believes what ought to really weigh on the minds of every Albertan are the province's massive energy supplies. According to Zeihan, Alberta has been getting the short end of the stick and sucked dry for years.
"Alberta produces more energy than the rest of Canada put together, their primary export market is the United States and a merger would eliminate everything from tax liabilities to foreign currency fluctuations," said Zeihan.
However, it isn't just economics or naked self-interest that should determine the future of the province.
Zeihan also argues that an aging population in the rest of Canada is going to place a heavy economic burden on the youthful and growing population of Alberta.
"As the price of that retiree bulge rises, and it's already pushing the Canadian budget to the limit, there is really only one place that Canadians can tax to fund their retiree system that they have promised their citizens. And that is Alberta," said Zeihan.
In an interview with Jen Gerson, a National Post columnist, Zeihan said it makes sense when you look at the demographic transition going on in the rest of Canada.
"Canada's demographic situation is similar to the rest of the developed world — a large population moving toward retirement and hardly any young people in the replacement generation coming up," said Zeihan.
"However, Alberta does not fit that mould. It is the youngest province, and is becoming younger, better paid and more highly skilled as the rest of Canada becomes older and less skilled, and a ward of the state financially."http://www.brockpress.com/2015/03/u-s-author-believes-alberta-would-be-better-off-with-the-united-states-645/
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 01:46:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 01:46:53 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 02:08:47 PM
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 02:08:47 PM
We have a national government that refuses to be cheerleader for our number one export. Any time a loony self-serving mayor says no to Alberta they get their way which is unsustainable for us. BC can pay Quebec's allowance.Quote from: "Shen Li"
...how about, since you don't like it here, why don't you emigrate there?
no medicare, 1% of the population in jail at any given time, a nation at war always sending its kids to go somewhere and fight.
...plus a nation which is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
Yeah, America was once golden, the breadbasket of the world, but it is no longer.
This aint 1960 no more.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:23:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:23:35 PM
We have a national government that refuses to be cheerleader for our number one export. Any time a loony self-serving mayor says no to Alberta they get their way which is unsustainable for us. BC can pay Quebec's allowance.Quote from: "Shen Li"
...how about, since you don't like it here, why don't you emigrate there?
no medicare, 1% of the population in jail at any given time, a nation at war always sending its kids to go somewhere and fight.
...plus a nation which is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
Yeah, America was once golden, the breadbasket of the world, but it is no longer.
This aint 1960 no more.
Did you read my post Joe? I said what the criteria would need to be before Alberta or Saskatchewan would exit Canada. Number one would be that we retain our health care systems. Other states can copy it if they wish.
And telling Albertans to emigrate if they don't like having their economy deliberately handcuffed for political reasons is not a solution.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:26:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:26:50 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 02:29:37 PM
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 02:29:37 PM
We have a national government that refuses to be cheerleader for our number one export. Any time a loony self-serving mayor says no to Alberta they get their way which is unsustainable for us. BC can pay Quebec's allowance.Quote from: "Shen Li"
...how about, since you don't like it here, why don't you emigrate there?
no medicare, 1% of the population in jail at any given time, a nation at war always sending its kids to go somewhere and fight.
...plus a nation which is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
Yeah, America was once golden, the breadbasket of the world, but it is no longer.
This aint 1960 no more.
Did you read my post Joe? I said what the criteria would need to be before Alberta or Saskatchewan would exit Canada. Number one would be that we retain our health care systems. Other states can copy it if they wish.
And telling Albertans to emigrate if they don't like having their economy deliberately handcuffed for political reasons is not a solution.
Herman, I think there was a time when America was great. Golden actually.
But that time in history has passed them by.
We or any part of our nation would be be crazy to join them now.
If anything, it'll be Americans who'll want to come here.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:34:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:34:41 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:42:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:42:24 PM
We have a national government that refuses to be cheerleader for our number one export. Any time a loony self-serving mayor says no to Alberta they get their way which is unsustainable for us. BC can pay Quebec's allowance.Quote from: "Shen Li"
...how about, since you don't like it here, why don't you emigrate there?
no medicare, 1% of the population in jail at any given time, a nation at war always sending its kids to go somewhere and fight.
...plus a nation which is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
Yeah, America was once golden, the breadbasket of the world, but it is no longer.
This aint 1960 no more.
Did you read my post Joe? I said what the criteria would need to be before Alberta or Saskatchewan would exit Canada. Number one would be that we retain our health care systems. Other states can copy it if they wish.
And telling Albertans to emigrate if they don't like having their economy deliberately handcuffed for political reasons is not a solution.
Herman, I think there was a time when America was great. Golden actually.
But that time in history has passed them by.
We or any part of our nation would be be crazy to join them now.
If anything, it'll be Americans who'll want to come here.
Don't worry about Alberta or Saskatchewan. Worry about BC which will face the same price discounts trying to sell natural gas to the states or a US state department that will block gas pipelines from BC to the rest of Canada. Canada will be forced to buy natural gas from the newest US state of Alberta.
Alberta and Saskatchewan leaving Canada would crush BC's economy and living standards quickly.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:57:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 02:57:43 PM
Don't worry about Alberta or Saskatchewan. Worry about BC which will face the same price discounts trying to sell natural gas to the states or a US state department that will block gas pipelines from BC to the rest of Canada. Canada will be forced to buy natural gas from the newest US state of Alberta.
Alberta and Saskatchewan leaving Canada would crush BC's economy and living standards quickly.
Ignore the troll Herm. Trust me, he's not listening to you.
Anyway, you are right about BC. If Alberta pulls the pin, that province is doomed. After a couple of years separated from Canada physically, but picking up the equalization slack they would be an economic basket case. Mexico wouldn't let them become a state let alone the US.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
Don't worry about Alberta or Saskatchewan. Worry about BC which will face the same price discounts trying to sell natural gas to the states or a US state department that will block gas pipelines from BC to the rest of Canada. Canada will be forced to buy natural gas from the newest US state of Alberta.
Alberta and Saskatchewan leaving Canada would crush BC's economy and living standards quickly.
Ignore the troll Herm. Trust me, he's not listening to you.
Anyway, you are right about BC. If Alberta pulls the pin, that province is doomed. After a couple of years separated from Canada physically, but picking up the equalization slack they would be an economic basket case. Mexico wouldn't let them become a state let alone the US.:laugh3:
Actually Shen, I don't like how certain groups diss Alberta oil & pretend that they don't need it all the while they depend on and rake the profits in from. I'm actually for the oil industry in Fort Mac/Alberta. I supported the Keystone pipeline proposal. However, I do think that some criticisms of them were valid. That under the last Conservative federal provincial governments there, they didn't do enough to diversify the industry. Shouldn't just be oil . Alberta could be an energy superpower, with oil extraction as just one part of it. With all its wealth and the recent oil boom, it didn't seem that the province did quite enough to diversify itself against a downturn which inevitable comes with all these boom bust cycles there.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 03:50:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 03:50:24 PM
New StatsCan 'net jobs numbers' came out and the news was extra bad for Alberta. Alberta has shed 100,000 gross jobs with a net jobs loss of almost 20,000. StatsCan had to revamp their numbers from just a couple weeks ago, when they announced 15,000 net jobs had been lost in Alberta. Analysts are saying this downturn is the worst since 1982, during Pierre Trudeau's National Energy Program.Quote
With this bad news in hand, rookie Lakeland MP and rising star in the new federal Conservative caucus, Shannon Stubbs, held the Liberals feet to the fire with a question that should make any Albertan beam with pride. She asked, "Mr. Speaker, I am proud of Alberta's world leading energy sector.When is the Natural Resources Minister or any of the 4 Alberta Liberal MPs finally going to support Alberta's energy workers who contribute so much to Canada?"
Hang on, I'm wiping away a tear of pride. Okay, I'm good.
A Liberal MP from Calgary, the Veterans Affair Minister, Kent Hehr fielded this one. And it was ugly. He replied "The people I am talking to, they're actually refreshed by the new approach of this government."
The howls and jeers from the opposition benches nearly overwhelmed the Veterans Affairs Minister as he struggled to finish his ridiculous response that rambled on into "Sunny Ways" territory. It culminated with an invitation for Ms. Stubbs to come to Calgary to talk to Liberal voters, presumably.
Stubbs represents a large Alberta riding that encompasses both Bonnyville and LLoydminster, two oil patch towns. She knows exactly what the downturn in oil and gas coupled with lack of pipeline infrastructure is doing to the people in her riding. She doesn't need to go to Kent Hehr's downtown Calgary riding to talk to Liberal voters to find out.
Are you like me? Are you getting pretty tired of Liberals telling you that you need to be more cheerful while you watch your friends and neighbours get laid off? Is the last thing you feel when the economy is so precarious "refreshed"?Imagine if a Conservative cabinet minister had shrugged off the woes in the auto sector in 2008 and 2009 for sunny ways, refreshing attitudes and smug platitudes the way Kent Hehr just did.The CBC and the Liberal media would be going full supernova.
But it's Alberta that's hurting this time. So it's way different I guess. It's being ignored by everyone but the Rebel and you.http://www.therebel.media/liberal_mp_claims_albertans_refreshed_by_trudeau_s
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
This leaving Canada shit is so fucking ridiculous.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
If you don't like how Canada runs things, MOVE TO THE US. You don't have a maple tree tied to your leg.Quote from: "RW"
This leaving Canada shit is so fucking ridiculous.
That is not even a serious argument RW and you know it. For a host of reasons, Alberta's departure from Canada is all but inevitable. At the very least, Alberta will speak to Canada from a position of strength which will lead to demands for more. BC's living standards will drop faster than Alberta's credit rating under Nothead when we are gone.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 04:13:10 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 04:13:10 PM
Hear that ringing Shen? It's reality calling.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 04:28:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 04:28:12 PM
HAHAHA! Inevitable! HahahaQuote from: "RW"
Hear that ringing Shen? It's reality calling.
I think instead of denying the obvious frustrations felt by the prairie provinces, Canada needs to figure out how it can be equally accommodating to Alberta and Saskatchewan as it is to Quebec and Ontario. If not than Canada needs to accept lower living standards when they say goodbye to about 1.3 million square kilometres and 5.4 million people. That's a lot of land, a lot of resources and a lot of talent.
A couple of members of the Saskatchewan party have also talked about changing the way they deal with Ottawa. All options are on the table except the status quo. Trudeau governments are particularly bad for national unity, so expect the demands for change to get louder as the years roll on.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Renee on January 29, 2016, 04:32:35 PM
Post by: Renee on January 29, 2016, 04:32:35 PM
I highly doubt the majority of people in Alberta will give up being Canadian anymore than I'm going to give up being American. This discussion is quite amusing to watch.
Besides, secession is not in your blood. You wouldn't even know how to go about doing it. And do you really think your government in Ottawa will just let you walk out the door anymore than the US federal government let the southern states secede in 1861? You will be kept as part of Canada by force if push comes to shove.
Do not kid yourselves. Don't underestimate the ruthlessness of your government.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 04:34:34 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 04:34:34 PM
Trudeau has been in for a few months now and you guys are already this pissy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the problem isn't Trudeau. See, Harper was from Alberta so now that Alberta doesn't have the PM in the provincial pocket, I think there is this attitude that Trudeau can be bullied.
Tantrum away.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
Never.....going.....to......happen.Quote from: "Renee"
I highly doubt the majority of people in Alberta will give up being Canadian anymore than I'm going to give up being American. This discussion is quite amusing to watch.
Besides, secession is not in your blood. You wouldn't even know how to go about doing it. And do you really think your government in Ottawa will just let you walk out the door anymore than the US federal government let the southern states secede in 1861? You will be kept as part of Canada by force if push comes to shove.
Do not kid yourselves. Don't underestimate the ruthlessness of your government.
Don't kid yourself. If Alberta and Saskatchewan play their hand right, they could see a very different response from Ottawa. I am old enough to remember a former premier of Alberta play a high stakes game of chess with another Trudeau. This Trudeau is not nearly as ruthless as his father was. Even if they are not really serious, always negotiate from strength not weakness.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 05:57:44 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 05:57:44 PM
How about Albertans stop denying what the actual problem is which is a drop in oil prices causing reductions in production and the fact that the Albertan economy is a single note which is a huge problem (obviously).Quote from: "RW"
Trudeau has been in for a few months now and you guys are already this pissy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the problem isn't Trudeau. See, Harper was from Alberta so now that Alberta doesn't have the PM in the provincial pocket, I think there is this attitude that Trudeau can be bullied.
Tantrum away.
Alberta's economy is fine as I showed you before. Low commodity prices are nothing new to Alberta and Saskatchewan(which is not feeling the pain as badly as we are). Do you forget that we paid down debt in low commodity prices before?
The problem is as a former premier said, the double and triple standards that are applied to different provinces. Alberta and Saskatchewan will do just fine with a reliable partner in Ottawa no matter what potash and oil prices are. We don't have that and never had that with a Trudeau at the helm.
Anyway, if you feel our economy is not as diverse as say BC, you won't have to worry about because we'll be gone. You can make your economy as diverse as you like because BC WILL be the new scapegoat. I hope you like poverty.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:05:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:05:07 PM
Government Double Standard on Pipelines Is No Way to Build a Nation
In a poll in the Calgary Herald, more than 93% of respondents said the government has NOT improved the approval process.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:08:37 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:08:37 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:10:14 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:10:14 PM
How about Albertans stop denying what the actual problem is which is a drop in oil prices causing reductions in production and the fact that the Albertan economy is a single note which is a huge problem (obviously).Quote from: "RW"
Trudeau has been in for a few months now and you guys are already this pissy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the problem isn't Trudeau. See, Harper was from Alberta so now that Alberta doesn't have the PM in the provincial pocket, I think there is this attitude that Trudeau can be bullied.
Tantrum away.
Alberta's economy is fine as I showed you before. Low commodity prices are nothing new to Alberta and Saskatchewan(which is not feeling the pain as badly as we are). Do you forget that we paid down debt in low commodity prices before?
The problem is as a former premier said, the double and triple standards that are applied to different provinces. Alberta and Saskatchewan will do just fine with a reliable partner in Ottawa no matter what potash and oil prices are. We don't have that and never had that with a Trudeau at the helm.
Anyway, if you feel our economy is not as diverse as say BC, you won't have to worry about because we'll be gone. You can make your economy as diverse as you like because BC WILL be the new scapegoat. I hope you like poverty.
It won't happen Shen. Quit wasting your fingers entertaining this bullshit. Figure a way to get what you want done that doesn't involve the pipe dream of fracturing our country.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:11:30 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:11:30 PM
Never.....going.....to......happen.Quote from: "Renee"
I highly doubt the majority of people in Alberta will give up being Canadian anymore than I'm going to give up being American. This discussion is quite amusing to watch.
Besides, secession is not in your blood. You wouldn't even know how to go about doing it. And do you really think your government in Ottawa will just let you walk out the door anymore than the US federal government let the southern states secede in 1861? You will be kept as part of Canada by force if push comes to shove.
Do not kid yourselves. Don't underestimate the ruthlessness of your government.
You would be wrong to assume that Renee. We are not the states. We have a history of provinces pushing the limits when it comes to their interests. Alberta and Saskatchewan have a lot to offer the states. I see this as a bargaining chip, but a very effective one if played right. The Liberal party has a history of presiding over regional alienation and separatism. I am old enough to remember the last time this happened. The next five years could be interesting.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:19:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 06:19:39 PM
That means the clock is ticking?Quote from: "RW"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You'll like having your exports held hostage because of a lack of market access. Gawd knows we do. Anyway, with the two most conservative provinces gone, you'll never have to worry about a Tory majority again(not that you would anyway when Justine rigs elections in his party's favour). Hope you like having your hands that pay the bills bitten. I say BC joins the US or becomes independent within two years of Alberta's departure.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:36:26 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 06:36:26 PM
That means the clock is ticking?Quote from: "RW"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You'll like having your exports held hostage because of a lack of market access. Gawd knows we do. Anyway, with the two most conservative provinces gone, you'll never have to worry about a Tory majority again(not that you would anyway when Justine rigs elections in his party's favour). Hope you like having your hands that pay the bills bitten. I say BC joins the US or becomes independent within two years of Alberta's departure.
How many times has Quebec tried to separate and failed?
Every time this separation shit comes up I want to fucking puke at the stupidity of it all. I think we need something that says separation is NOT even an option. If you don't like the way things are going, go someplace else. Move to the states. Go to Texas and make a go of it. No fucks given.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Bricktop on January 29, 2016, 06:54:58 PM
Post by: Bricktop on January 29, 2016, 06:54:58 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 07:13:24 PM
Post by: RW on January 29, 2016, 07:13:24 PM
Would this be an issue if you eliminated your state or provincial political structure, and had a single government?Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
Considering the issue is with the federal government, I'd say yes.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Romero on January 29, 2016, 07:38:03 PM
Post by: Romero on January 29, 2016, 07:38:03 PM
If nothing else this would be a good bargaining chip. Canada needs Alberta a lot more than Alberta needs Canada. In fact, people in this province would be much better off without Canada. The US would almost certainly accept Alberta into the fold.Quote from: "Shen Li"
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 09:38:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 09:38:22 PM
Ontario is the province that most desperately needs to diversify away from it's dependence on a declining auto sector. Thirteen straight years of sub par economic performance. The former economic engine of Canada cannot even get going with a 70 cent dollar. We got a multi billion dollar bailout from the previous government for our number one industry and Alberta gets the door slammed in it's face by this government. I can understand the frustration the people of Alberta must feel. But, we cannot afford to lose Alberta. We could survive without Quebec, Newfoundland or Nova Soctia, but we are done as a nation without Alberta.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 10:54:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 10:54:13 PM
One of the options they have on the table is union with the United States..
Apparently it's always been around, but has gained traction over the last few years with comments about Dutch disease and that Canada is better off in the hands of leaders from Quebec so they tell us..
I was wondering what would the future be for Canada if Alberta left confederation for the United States?
I assume Saskatchewan and BC would also reassess their role in Canada too.
Perhaps Canada would be from Manitoba to Newfoundland plus the three territories.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 11:24:44 PM
Post by: J0E on January 29, 2016, 11:24:44 PM
My husband and I know a couple who are very active in a movement to change Alberta's relationship with the rest of Canada..Quote from: "Fashionista"
One of the options they have on the table is union with the United States..
Apparently it's always been around, but has gained traction over the last few years with comments about Dutch disease and that Canada is better off in the hands of leaders from Quebec so they tell us..
I was wondering what would the future be for Canada if Alberta left confederation for the United States?
I assume Saskatchewan and BC would also reassess their role in Canada too.
Perhaps Canada would be from Manitoba to Newfoundland plus the three territories.
I don't want to join the United States Fashionista.
They have a lot of social problems.
So much violence.
Too many guns.
Too many of their own citizens in prison.
Too much social pressure.
A lot of racism.
Asians like yourself have it better in Canada than they do in the US.
Your identity would be 'Asian-Am'.
The USA has a national debt of $20 trillion - which they'd fully expect Alberta and Saskatchewan to subsidize.If you think Ottawa is milking Alberta for all its worth, then it would be ten times worse with Uncle Sam. He'd want even more, and if Alberta didn't fork over, they'd play hardball.
Being part of America isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
There are regions in the US which feel they aren't getting a good deal either.
It's not a place that you'd feel comfortable raising your children in.
But you'd only find that out when after you moved there.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 11:45:49 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 11:45:49 PM
My husband and I know a couple who are very active in a movement to change Alberta's relationship with the rest of Canada..Quote from: "Fashionista"
One of the options they have on the table is union with the United States..
Apparently it's always been around, but has gained traction over the last few years with comments about Dutch disease and that Canada is better off in the hands of leaders from Quebec so they tell us..
I was wondering what would the future be for Canada if Alberta left confederation for the United States?
I assume Saskatchewan and BC would also reassess their role in Canada too.
Perhaps Canada would be from Manitoba to Newfoundland plus the three territories.
Did you really expect this retard to have your back?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 11:49:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2016, 11:49:02 PM
I roll my eyes that people are still peddling the myth that Alberta has done nothing to diversify it's economy. Only Newfoundland has diversified more than Alberta. The reason at least prior to Jim Prentice and Rachel Notley was it's super competitive tax policies and zero net debt. In 2012, Calgary Economic Development lists 123 companies headquartered in Calgary that report annual revenues of $100 million or more. Dozens have revenues in excess of $1 billion and, somewhat surprisingly, 12 of that number are not oil and gas companies. Both of our class one rail companies have their logistical centres in Alberta.Quote from: "seoulbro"
Ontario is the province that most desperately needs to diversify away from it's dependence on a declining auto sector. Thirteen straight years of sub par economic performance. The former economic engine of Canada cannot even get going with a 70 cent dollar. We got a multi billion dollar bailout from the previous government for our number one industry and Alberta gets the door slammed in it's face by this government. I can understand the frustration the people of Alberta must feel. But, we cannot afford to lose Alberta. We could survive without Quebec, Newfoundland or Nova Soctia, but we are done as a nation without Alberta.
It's not resource rich Alberta, Saskatchewan or BC that have put all their economic eggs in one basket. It's Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec who are receiving equalization payments while NOT fully developing their resources.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: J0E on January 30, 2016, 05:39:47 PM
Post by: J0E on January 30, 2016, 05:39:47 PM
Oil is still important to this country, will be for a long time to come, but better use must be made of it and the other natural resources we have. Nations with far less somehow manage to do a lot more with what they have. ie - Sweden gets 10 x more the use out of its forests than Canada does, and its industrial engine makes us seem like laggards.
We don't seem to have a truly 1st world economy like many others.
We need to develop one.
I roll my eyes that people are still peddling the myth that Alberta has done nothing to diversify it's economy. Only Newfoundland has diversified more than Alberta. The reason at least prior to Jim Prentice and Rachel Notley was it's super competitive tax policies and zero net debt. In 2012, Calgary Economic Development lists 123 companies headquartered in Calgary that report annual revenues of $100 million or more. Dozens have revenues in excess of $1 billion and, somewhat surprisingly, 12 of that number are not oil and gas companies. Both of our class one rail companies have their logistical centres in Alberta.Quote from: "seoulbro"
Ontario is the province that most desperately needs to diversify away from it's dependence on a declining auto sector. Thirteen straight years of sub par economic performance. The former economic engine of Canada cannot even get going with a 70 cent dollar. We got a multi billion dollar bailout from the previous government for our number one industry and Alberta gets the door slammed in it's face by this government. I can understand the frustration the people of Alberta must feel. But, we cannot afford to lose Alberta. We could survive without Quebec, Newfoundland or Nova Soctia, but we are done as a nation without Alberta.[size=200]BULLSEYE!![/size]
It's not resource rich Alberta, Saskatchewan or BC that have put all their economic eggs in one basket. It's Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec who are receiving equalization payments while NOT fully developing their resources.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 05:44:12 PM
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 05:44:12 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
Shen, just wait 4 years and we'll have a new retard in power. Maybe we'll even get one from Alberta again.Quote from: "RW"
It was nice knowing you Western neighbour. With us gone and Alberta jr(Saskatchewan) following us, you British Columbians will be the new bad guys that federal Liberals love to hate, but want ur money. We wish you luck, cuz you'll need it. We've got our own problems now with our left-wing prez, Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:21:02 PM
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:21:02 PM
No offense to the US, but I'd rather move to Newfoundland than become an American State.
Like I said, just cool your heels and in 4 years we'll have some new idiot running the shit show.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2016, 06:26:40 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2016, 06:26:40 PM
We've never even been on their radars, nevermind the bad guys.Quote from: "RW"
Like I said, just cool your heels and in 4 years we'll have some new idiot running the shit show.
Alberta outside Canada is good for Albertans. True Dope will be looking around for a new province to demonize. BC and NFLD are both resource dependent. My money is going on you guys being the bad guys since you have about 10 times the population s NFLD. You'll love paying for Quebec to trash talk you. We sure did.
Alberta and Alberta jr are gone. It's inevitable, deal with it.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:43:02 PM
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:43:02 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:50:27 PM
Post by: RW on January 30, 2016, 06:50:27 PM
"United we stand divided we fall," Corey M. O'Brien of Edmonton, Alberta wrote. "Like it or not it was a legal election, the way it has been done for centuries now, if you don't like, it feel free it emigrate anywhere else in the world. Leave Canada the way it is."
"This smells of the Quebec referendum from years ago, and I know the opinion of the majority of western Canadians as to how that went, so please stop this whining," he added. "If you don't like the results of the election then get more involved in the process next time. Until then it is a majority government for the next 4 years."
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Renee on January 31, 2016, 12:42:51 PM
Post by: Renee on January 31, 2016, 12:42:51 PM
The US will not jeopardize our relationship with Canada just to appease a bunch of radical separatists.
As far as you industry and oil goes. If we really wanted the benefits from it, Washington would have given the green light to keystone 4 years ago.
Stop dreaming. Work out your problems with your boy ruler. If you hold all the cards then use it to put enough pressure on your national leaders to achieve what you want.
Maybe you need to work on electing leaders in Alberta with some brains and some balls?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 12:49:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 12:49:02 PM
It will never happen unless DC and Ottawa can reach an agreement that EVERYONE can live with.Quote from: "Renee"
The US will not jeopardize our relationship with Canada just to appease a bunch of radical separatists.
As far as you industry and oil goes. If we really wanted the benefits from it Washington would have given the green light to keystone 4 years ago.
Stop dreaming. Work out your problems with your boy ruler. If you hold all the cards then use to put enough pressure on your national leaders to achieve what you want.
Keystone was about internal US politics and we know that. IBut, the US has hinted in the past it would make an offer of union to English Canada if Quebec separated. Alberta and Saskatchewan would be easily assimilated and give the US access to rich supplies of uranium and potash along with oil and gas.
There is a misunderstanding that it is about imbecile of a pm and that is not true. This has never gone away. It's always been there. I predicted separatism would raise it's again if another Trudeau became pm and I was right.
Now back to my question. What are the incentives for the status quo?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 02:00:51 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 02:00:51 PM
Why should Alberta and Saskatchewan remain in Canada? What are the incentives to stay?Quote from: "Herman"
Why do you think it's an option to leave? I mean, if you want to go, there's the door but "our home and native land" stays with us in Canada.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:02:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:02:25 PM
It will never happen unless DC and Ottawa can reach an agreement that EVERYONE can live with.Quote from: "Renee"
The US will not jeopardize our relationship with Canada just to appease a bunch of radical separatists.
As far as you industry and oil goes. If we really wanted the benefits from it Washington would have given the green light to keystone 4 years ago.
Stop dreaming. Work out your problems with your boy ruler. If you hold all the cards then use to put enough pressure on your national leaders to achieve what you want.
Keystone was about internal US politics and we know that. IBut, the US has hinted in the past it would make an offer of union to English Canada if Quebec separated. Alberta and Saskatchewan would be easily assimilated and give the US access to rich supplies of uranium and potash along with oil and gas.
There is a misunderstanding that it is about imbecile of a pm and that is not true. This has never gone away. It's always been there. I predicted separatism would raise it's again if another Trudeau became pm and I was right.
Now back to my question. What are the incentives for the status quo?
There are incentives, but they are all for Central Canada. I could not fathom Quebeckers paying all the bills while at the same time obstructing their ability to pay the bills. They would never stand for it and why should the West. Maybe some sort of re write of confederation might be necessary to make all provinces happy. Opening up the constitution will be a nasty can of worms for sure.
Under no circumstances can we afford to lose Alberta and or Saskatchewan. They are too valuable to the nation. Governments present and future must stop taking them for granted.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
It will never happen unless DC and Ottawa can reach an agreement that EVERYONE can live with.Quote from: "Renee"
The US will not jeopardize our relationship with Canada just to appease a bunch of radical separatists.
As far as you industry and oil goes. If we really wanted the benefits from it, Washington would have given the green light to keystone 4 years ago.
Stop dreaming. Work out your problems with your boy ruler. If you hold all the cards then use it to put enough pressure on your national leaders to achieve what you want.
Maybe you need to work on electing leaders in Alberta with some brains and some balls?
This is just it. Why the fuck would they want to join the US when they aren't building a fucking pipeline either.
What Albertans seem to not be accepting is the price of oil is down right now and they are blaming everyone else for it but reality. The pipeline through BC is on the table so long as criteria can be met but they don't give a fuck about the environment like BC does so they don't understand having standards.
Instead, they want to talk about leaving because they no longer have a PM in the the front pocket of their overalls.
Shut up you bunch of prairie whiners before I get together a bunch of BCers to kick some fucking sense into your greasy heads.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:22:16 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:22:16 PM
It will never happen unless DC and Ottawa can reach an agreement that EVERYONE can live with.Quote from: "Renee"
The US will not jeopardize our relationship with Canada just to appease a bunch of radical separatists.
As far as you industry and oil goes. If we really wanted the benefits from it, Washington would have given the green light to keystone 4 years ago.
Stop dreaming. Work out your problems with your boy ruler. If you hold all the cards then use it to put enough pressure on your national leaders to achieve what you want.
Maybe you need to work on electing leaders in Alberta with some brains and some balls?
This is just it. Why the fuck would they want to join the US when they aren't building a fucking pipeline either.:oeudC:
What Albertans seem to not be accepting is the price of oil is down right now and they are blaming everyone else for it but reality. The pipeline through BC is on the table so long as criteria can be met but they don't give a fuck about the environment like BC does so they don't understand having standards.
Instead, they want to talk about leaving because they no longer have a PM in the the front pocket of their overalls.
Shut up you bunch of prairie whiners before I get together a bunch of BCers to kick some fucking sense into your greasy heads.:sdfjh(2):
The US has approved about 10 pipelines under Obama's watch. What does low commodity prices have to do with a system that penalizes one region to get votes in another. If all Alberta and Saskatchewan wants to make them happy is approving a couple of pipelines, then for heavens sake do it and get it over with. But it seems the root of this runs a lot deeper than a 36 inch piece of steel in the ground. Maybe our confederation is dysfunctional.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:33:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:33:45 PM
The US has approved about 10 pipelines under Obama's watch. What does low commodity prices have to do with a system that penalizes one region to get votes in another. If all Alberta and Saskatchewan wants to make them happy is approving a couple of pipelines, then for heavens sake do it and get it over with. But it seems the root of this runs a lot deeper than a 36 inch piece of steel in the ground. Maybe our confederation is dysfunctional.Quote from: "seoulbro"
You got that right. The Reform Party used to hold the federal government's feet to the fire. This government does not have that kind of opposition, so they can do or say anything they want. Putting a shovel in the ground for a pipeline would be a lift for our provinces and the national economy too, but it won't be the end of prairie separatism. At the very least, Alberta and Saskatchewan need to look at creating a tax authority like Quebec has. We have a lot of different options, but I don't see the status quo as being viable in the next few years. A perfect storm is brewing as I predicted it would when another Trudeau became pm.
Now, back to my question. What incentives are there for Alberta and Saskatchewan to remain in Canada? Nobody can think of any.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:43:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 02:43:08 PM
The US has approved about 10 pipelines under Obama's watch. What does low commodity prices have to do with a system that penalizes one region to get votes in another. If all Alberta and Saskatchewan wants to make them happy is approving a couple of pipelines, then for heavens sake do it and get it over with. But it seems the root of this runs a lot deeper than a 36 inch piece of steel in the ground. Maybe our confederation is dysfunctional.Quote from: "seoulbro"
You got that right. The Reform Party used to hold the federal government's feet to the fire. This government does not have that kind of opposition, so they can do or say anything they want. Putting a shovel in the ground for a pipeline would be a lift for our provinces and the national economy too, but it won't be the end of prairie separatism. At the very least, Alberta and Saskatchewan need to look at creating a tax authority like Quebec has. We have a lot of different options, but I don't see the status quo as being viable in the next few years. A perfect storm is brewing as I predicted it would when another Trudeau became pm.
Now, back to my question. What incentives are there for Alberta and Saskatchewan to remain in Canada? Nobody can think of any.
I don't why the West puts up with being a second and third class parts of confederation. Issues cannot be swept under the carpet indefinitely. We cannot afford to lose the prairies, so re write confederation so it does work for all provinces. This should not even be an issue. Just get on with it.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 03:24:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 03:24:50 PM
Ralph Klein used to say that at any given time about 25% of Albertans had separatist sympathies. In fact, support for separatism or a new arrangement with Ottawa was often highest when commodity prices were high. Peter Lougheed understood this too. We have a system in Canada that does not work for all regions. Alberta and Alberta jr. would be better off financially as US states than as Canadian provinces. Nobody can deny this.
And Herm, you are right about Reform. They were Central Canada's watchdog. They forced the Chretien government to be a national government instead of the the traditional Liberal approach of screwing one region to buy votes in another. They are missed and perhaps something like them will re-emerge.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 03:26:33 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 03:26:33 PM
The US has approved about 10 pipelines under Obama's watch. What does low commodity prices have to do with a system that penalizes one region to get votes in another. If all Alberta and Saskatchewan wants to make them happy is approving a couple of pipelines, then for heavens sake do it and get it over with. But it seems the root of this runs a lot deeper than a 36 inch piece of steel in the ground. Maybe our confederation is dysfunctional.Quote from: "seoulbro"
You got that right. The Reform Party used to hold the federal government's feet to the fire. This government does not have that kind of opposition, so they can do or say anything they want. Putting a shovel in the ground for a pipeline would be a lift for our provinces and the national economy too, but it won't be the end of prairie separatism. At the very least, Alberta and Saskatchewan need to look at creating a tax authority like Quebec has. We have a lot of different options, but I don't see the status quo as being viable in the next few years. A perfect storm is brewing as I predicted it would when another Trudeau became pm.
Now, back to my question. What incentives are there for Alberta and Saskatchewan to remain in Canada? Nobody can think of any.
I don't why the West puts up with being a second and third class parts of confederation. Issues cannot be swept under the carpet indefinitely. We cannot afford to lose the prairies, so re write confederation so it does work for all provinces. This should not even be an issue. Just get on with it.
I have no problem using our governance to solve issues but breaking up Canada should NEVER be an option.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 03:30:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 03:30:12 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 04:13:05 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 04:13:05 PM
If Canada breaks up it's the fault of Ottawa.Quote from: "Shen Li"
No, it will be on the provinces that separate.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 05:09:32 PM
I am Taiwanese after all..
However, Canada is not China....why can't we reach a solution that satisfies all sides?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 06:12:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 06:12:57 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 06:14:16 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 06:14:16 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 06:17:54 PM
I think the rest of Canada should have a say in separation matters.Quote from: "RW"
I don't....if Taiwan wants to formalize our de facto independence, it must have the assent of 24 million Taiwanese not 1.4 billion Chinese.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 06:38:03 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 06:38:03 PM
If Albertans don't like the ways things are going, there is a lot they can from lobbying to protesting to pressuring government to moving the fuck out of Alberta/Canada if they don't like how things are run here.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 07:13:54 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2016, 07:13:54 PM
And you see Taiwan was a comparable to a province in the middle of Canada?Quote from: "RW"
If Albertans don't like the ways things are going, there is a lot they can from lobbying to protesting to pressuring government to moving the fuck out of Alberta/Canada if they don't like how things are run here.
That's what Peking says.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Bricktop on January 31, 2016, 07:43:19 PM
Post by: Bricktop on January 31, 2016, 07:43:19 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
And you see Taiwan was a comparable to a province in the middle of Canada?Quote from: "RW"
If Albertans don't like the ways things are going, there is a lot they can from lobbying to protesting to pressuring government to moving the fuck out of Alberta/Canada if they don't like how things are run here.
That's what Peking says.
And is Peking part of a democracy?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 08:03:43 PM
Post by: RW on January 31, 2016, 08:03:43 PM
Does anyone else see the irony of Mao's Minion starting a thread about splitting???Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
Yes, it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:00:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:00:46 PM
Does anyone else see the irony of Mao's Minion starting a thread about splitting???Quote from: "Mr Crowley"
Does anyone see the irony that the same people who support Chinese provinces splitting do not support Canadian provinces doing the same?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:08:34 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:08:34 PM
And you see Taiwan was a comparable to a province in the middle of Canada?Quote from: "RW"
If Albertans don't like the ways things are going, there is a lot they can from lobbying to protesting to pressuring government to moving the fuck out of Alberta/Canada if they don't like how things are run here.
That's what Peking says.
And is Peking part of a democracy?
The things you are saying are the same things Peking says to Taiwan, Xinjiang, Tibet and Inner Mongolia?
If you don't like how we do things, leave, but we keep the land..
I expect this from China, but not from Canada.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 01:21:14 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 01:21:14 PM
Also I think anyone who wants to join up with another country should live there for a while and see how they like it before they run off with it.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:55:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 01:55:26 PM
Why don't you expect it from Canada? As a Canadian, I feel strongly enough about not fracturing my country in the middle making the land itself important. We aren't talking about a little island off our coast like PEI.Quote from: "RW"
Also I think anyone who wants to join up with another country should live there for a while and see how they like it before they run off with it.
So you oppose the right to self determination?
I am not saying I would approve of changing my province's sovereignty, but I support their right to do so.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 02:05:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 02:05:56 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 03:27:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 03:27:14 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 03:43:02 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 03:43:02 PM
Why don't you expect it from Canada? As a Canadian, I feel strongly enough about not fracturing my country in the middle making the land itself important. We aren't talking about a little island off our coast like PEI.Quote from: "RW"
Also I think anyone who wants to join up with another country should live there for a while and see how they like it before they run off with it.
So you oppose the right to self determination?the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms. It states that nations, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference.
I am not saying I would approve of changing my province's sovereignty, but I support their right to do so.
NATIONS Fash. Not provinces within nations.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 03:44:40 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 03:44:40 PM
Canada's borders might change? Big fucking deal. It would not be the first country to lose territory and it sure as fuck would not be the last.Quote from: "Shen Li"
I'm sorry but I don't think they will change. There have been talk for ages and even votes yet Canada remains united.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
Canada's borders might change? Big fucking deal. It would not be the first country to lose territory and it sure as fuck would not be the last.Quote from: "Shen Li"
If the case for an exit from confederation is only economic than give Canada a chance to make the system work better for the regions. I realize times change and our system may need change too. But for God sakes, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:09:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:09:48 PM
Canada's borders might change? Big fucking deal. It would not be the first country to lose territory and it sure as fuck would not be the last.Quote from: "Shen Li"
If the case for an exit from confederation is only economic than give Canada a chance to make the system work better for the regions. I realize times change and our system may need change too. But for God sakes, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I do want Alberta to leave, but I respect the right of any province to secede.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:28:58 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:28:58 PM
"Secession is recognized as a possibility, not a right. A provincial government has no right to appoint itself as the government of an independent State. It cannot, legally, secede unilaterally without first securing a negotiated agreement with the Canadian State. It doesn't have that right, either under international law or domestic law. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed, in its 1998 opinion, that "the secession of a province from Canada must be considered, in legal terms, to require an amendment to the Constitution, which perforce requires negotiation"(para. 84) "within the existing constitutional framework" (para. 149)."
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:34:01 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:34:01 PM
Canada's borders might change? Big fucking deal. It would not be the first country to lose territory and it sure as fuck would not be the last.Quote from: "Shen Li"
If the case for an exit from confederation is only economic than give Canada a chance to make the system work better for the regions. I realize times change and our system may need change too. But for God sakes, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
You mean take part in our democratic governance rather than threatening to leave when things don't go Alberta's way?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:53:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:53:09 PM
Provincial secession is NOT a right according to both Canadian or international law:Quote from: "RW"
"Secession is recognized as a possibility, not a right. A provincial government has no right to appoint itself as the government of an independent State. It cannot, legally, secede unilaterally without first securing a negotiated agreement with the Canadian State. It doesn't have that right, either under international law or domestic law. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed, in its 1998 opinion, that "the secession of a province from Canada must be considered, in legal terms, to require an amendment to the Constitution, which perforce requires negotiation"(para. 84) "within the existing constitutional framework" (para. 149)."
China eliminated the right to secede from it's constitution. But what does that really mean? That China will use force? Will Canada use force if provinces seek a better deal outside of Canada? Canada would have to negotiate the terms of exit, but block it? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:56:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 04:56:06 PM
Canada's borders might change? Big fucking deal. It would not be the first country to lose territory and it sure as fuck would not be the last.Quote from: "Shen Li"
If the case for an exit from confederation is only economic than give Canada a chance to make the system work better for the regions. I realize times change and our system may need change too. But for God sakes, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
You mean take part in our democratic governance rather than threatening to leave when things don't go Alberta's way?
It's Quebec that gets it's own way. Alberta and Saskatchewan just want a system that supports their tremendous contributions to Canada. Leaving Canada would be a last resort.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:59:06 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 04:59:06 PM
Provincial secession is NOT a right according to both Canadian or international law:Quote from: "RW"
"Secession is recognized as a possibility, not a right. A provincial government has no right to appoint itself as the government of an independent State. It cannot, legally, secede unilaterally without first securing a negotiated agreement with the Canadian State. It doesn't have that right, either under international law or domestic law. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed, in its 1998 opinion, that "the secession of a province from Canada must be considered, in legal terms, to require an amendment to the Constitution, which perforce requires negotiation"(para. 84) "within the existing constitutional framework" (para. 149)."
China eliminated the right to secede from it's constitution. But what does that really mean? That China will use force? Will Canada use force if provinces seek a better deal outside of Canada? Canada would have to negotiate the terms of exit, but block it? I doubt it.
I love how you guys keep throwing in the Republic of China into this conversation like it's a comparable situation.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:08:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:08:19 PM
Provincial secession is NOT a right according to both Canadian or international law:Quote from: "RW"
"Secession is recognized as a possibility, not a right. A provincial government has no right to appoint itself as the government of an independent State. It cannot, legally, secede unilaterally without first securing a negotiated agreement with the Canadian State. It doesn't have that right, either under international law or domestic law. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed, in its 1998 opinion, that "the secession of a province from Canada must be considered, in legal terms, to require an amendment to the Constitution, which perforce requires negotiation"(para. 84) "within the existing constitutional framework" (para. 149)."
China eliminated the right to secede from it's constitution. But what does that really mean? That China will use force? Will Canada use force if provinces seek a better deal outside of Canada? Canada would have to negotiate the terms of exit, but block it? I doubt it.
I love how you guys keep throwing in the Republic of China into this conversation like it's a comparable situation.
You sound like a member of the standing committee of the CCP?
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:32:17 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:32:17 PM
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:46:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 05:46:28 PM
What about Aboriginal self determination? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?Quote from: "seoulbro"
They don't want actual independence.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 06:12:55 PM
Post by: RW on February 01, 2016, 06:12:55 PM
Provincial secession is NOT a right according to both Canadian or international law:Quote from: "RW"
"Secession is recognized as a possibility, not a right. A provincial government has no right to appoint itself as the government of an independent State. It cannot, legally, secede unilaterally without first securing a negotiated agreement with the Canadian State. It doesn't have that right, either under international law or domestic law. The Supreme Court of Canada confirmed, in its 1998 opinion, that "the secession of a province from Canada must be considered, in legal terms, to require an amendment to the Constitution, which perforce requires negotiation"(para. 84) "within the existing constitutional framework" (para. 149)."
China eliminated the right to secede from it's constitution. But what does that really mean? That China will use force? Will Canada use force if provinces seek a better deal outside of Canada? Canada would have to negotiate the terms of exit, but block it? I doubt it.
I love how you guys keep throwing in the Republic of China into this conversation like it's a comparable situation.
You sound like a member of the standing committee of the CCP?
Or maybe I sound like a person who loves her country AS A WHOLE and who is tired of this threat.
Title: Re: Since Canada Won't Work With Alberta, Alberta Needs To Start Looking At Different Options Including Becoming A US St
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 07:05:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2016, 07:05:36 PM
Or maybe I sound like a person who loves her country AS A WHOLE and who is tired of this threat.Quote from: "RW"
This touches a raw nerve with you. I was working overseas when Quebec had it's last referendum. I wanted the yes side to win. If Parizeau had declared Quebec independent the next day, our lives would go on. I don't see Alberta and Saskatchewan leaving Canada anytime soon, but if they do life will go on for you. There would be big changes for the national economy as the Seoul brother pointed out. But that's not necessarily a bad thing either.