that this whole Cypress debacle is probably the point that people will look back on and say this is when the world tipped over the point of no return........i can think of no greater threat to civilization than the casual appropriation of citizens back accounts (personal property) by their duly elected government.....i mean i know the government steals your money via excessive taxes, but you budget for that and expect it......but to come along and take your savings to bail out a mismanaged private banking institution is to say the least, a criminal action. What say you...?????
to me it speaks of a financial contagion that could infect the world financial community......lets try stealing from account holders in a small insignificant country, a offshore banking destination to boot, and see what happens......not too much blowback.....ok lets try greece, italy, protugal, ireland...USA, whichever.......what does this action tell account holders around the world about the security of their money in a bank...it speaks volumes about how insecure your deposits are.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
I totally agree OL and it is what I meant by dangerous precedent. If you had told me a few years ago in an EU member nation I would have said you were crazy. As you said let's start with a little banking haven and see where it goes from there.
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it gives new meaning and clarity to Obamas hatred of the rich and successful and his desire to institute a program of wealth distribution.....ok next stop, let's just confiscate all bank accounts in excess of those guaranteed by the govt. ($100K) from all americans, tax their assets to zero, and use that to pay down the debt......then we can start borrowing again and increase govt. programs .......sounds like a plan
I am appalled at the great Cyprus Bank robbery. I understand that electorates in Germany and northern Europe demand some sacrifice. However, when you accept a solution that basically expropriates 10 percent of deposits, you set a dangerous precedent. If they get into deeper trouble, will they take 50 percent?
The Cypriot bailout terms can't be viewed in isolation. The signals sent to troubled euro zone countries and to foreign depositors are unmistakable. While this isn't a Lehman moment, the same lack of systemic concerns is evident.
The representatives at the bailout press conference tried to present this as a one-off, they were not willing to rule out similar measures elsewhere - not that it would have mattered much, as the trust is gone anyway.
i suspect depositors in excess of 100k will be actively seeking ways to shelter and protect their assets...looks like a whole new opportunity for some wise young guy/gal.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
I think the whole drill is to see if they can get away with it on a larger scale .
All I can say is it would be a good time to start robbing banks in Cypress.
Whats the biggest shame of it is most of those people are trying to save, it's not like it's peoples money that waste all the time, and have nothing.
The useless people in sociaty once again gets a free ride off working peoples back.
I never thought so till like George Bushes second term, then it started rolling .
It's scary really, and little by little they take something, but people don't seem to notice.
I think it was Clinton dropping the Glass Stegal act that hurt everyone the most.
You also have the special interest groups, and individuals like Soros chipping away little by little, lawsuit after lawsuit.
One friendly judge will overturn 10 other judges, that's not right.
Quote from: "Blue"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
I think the whole drill is to see if they can get away with it on a larger scale .
All I can say is it would be a good time to start robbing banks in Cypress.
instead of the banks robbing customers.
The banks have been robbing people saving for years now with the low interest they get.
.01% on interest, that's a scam.
Quote from: "Blue"
.01% on interest, that's a scam.
I have high interest accounts. The thing about bank accounts is there is no risk involved, so very little reward.
I think I make 1.5 % in my account, but in my investments 4.5% and 5% so I put most in investments.
I see the banks making about 10% or more, plus they are buying old bonds from desperate people that make as much or more.
And it is not Cyprus. It is all of the EU in cahoots on this. Not one of the EU said "
Agree to that. The EU is committing slow suicide, but Germany will prey and is preying on the others. It will come out the boss with all the power... like as though it already hasn't
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "cc li tarte"
Germany is the best of the worst and they will rule.
the universe is unfolding exactly as it should......Bismark is smiling
European fiscal mismanagement will do what Hitler couldn't; make Germany ruler of Europe.
i'm still not clear of the logic behind average citizens are being asked, either directly or through their taxes, to bail out these banks...starting in Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece and through to Cyprus. Surely the banks should call any outstanding loans they have to businesses and individuals first, followed by the value of shareholders holdings reduced to zero. If after that there remains outstanding debts, then the bank should be wound up and the depositors assets moved to another financial institution. If all the banks in one country fail this test then the govt. would be obligated to open a temporary bank until it could be put under private hands ASAP. Instead the citizens of these countries are being forced into servitude by the EU to maintain these grossly miss-managed banks, including their criminally inept management. I say let them fail...does anyone honestly think that one of the "well managed" banks would not step in and take over.....or another enterprise would not step in and buy their depreciated assets. Instead we now see countries, where their citizens, will live like paupers for decades. Some will say they deserve it for borrowing and spending so recklessly. I would have more sympathy for this point of view if all these banks had to pay a similar price and their management and political masters were sitting in jail.
By Michael, on March 28th, 2013
Cyprus-Style Bank Account Confiscation Is In The New Canadian Government BudgetThe politicians of the western world are coming after your bank accounts. In fact, Cyprus-style "bail-ins" are actually proposed in the new Canadian government budget. When I first heard about this I was quite skeptical, so I went and looked it up for myself. And guess what? It is right there in black and white on pages 144 and 145 of "Economic Action Plan 2013" which the Harper government has already submitted to the House of Commons. This new budget actually proposes "to implement a 'bail-in' regime for systemically important banks" in Canada. "Economic Action Plan 2013" was submitted on March 21st, which means that this "bail-in regime" was likely being planned long before the crisis in Cyprus ever erupted. So exactly what in the world is going on here? In addition, as you will see below, it is being reported that the European Parliament will soon be voting on a law which would require that large banks be "bailed in" when they fail. In other words, that new law would make Cyprus-style bank account confiscation the law of the land for the entire EU. I can't even begin to describe how serious all of this is. From now on, when major banks fail they are going to bail them out by grabbing the money that is in your bank accounts. This is going to absolutely shatter faith in the banking system and it is actually going to make it far more likely that we will see major bank failures all over the western world.
What you are about to see absolutely amazed me when I first saw it. The Canadian government is actually proposing that what just happened in Cyprus should be used as a blueprint for future bank failures up in Canada.
The following comes from pages 144 and 145 of "Economic Action Plan 2013" which you can find right here. Apparently the goal is to find a way to rescue "systemically important banks" without the use of taxpayer funds...
Canada's large banks are a source of strength for the Canadian economy. Our large banks have become increasingly successful in international markets, creating jobs at home.
The Government also recognizes the need to manage the risks associated with systemically important banks — those banks whose distress or failure could cause a disruption to the financial system and, in turn, negative impacts on the economy. This requires strong prudential oversight and a robust set of options for resolving these institutions without the use of taxpayer funds, in the unlikely event that one becomes non-viable.
So if taxpayer funds will not be used to bail out the banks, how will it be done? Well, the Canadian government is actually proposing that a "bail-in" regime be implemented...
The Government proposes to implement a "bail-in" regime for systemically important banks. This regime will be designed to ensure that, in the unlikely event that a systemically important bank depletes its capital, the bank can be recapitalized and returned to viability through the very rapid conversion of certain bank liabilities into regulatory capital. This will reduce risks for taxpayers. The Government will consult stakeholders on how best to implement a bail-in regime in Canada. Implementation timelines will allow for a smooth transition for affected institutions, investors and other market participants.
So if the banks take extreme risks with their money and lose, "certain bank liabilities" (i.e. deposits) will rapidly be converted into "regulatory capital" and the banks will be saved.
In other words, the banks will just be allowed to grab money directly out of your bank accounts to recapitalize themselves.
That may sound completely and utterly insane to us, but this is how things will now be done all over the western world.
Sometimes a "bail-in" can be done by just converting unsecured debt into equity, but as we just saw in Cyprus, often when there is a major bank failure a lot more money is required to "fix the banks" than can possibly be raised by converting unsecured debt into equity. That is when it becomes very tempting to dip into uninsured back accounts.
In fact, some European politicians are openly admitting as much. According to RT, the European Parliament will soon be voting on a new law which will make Cyprus-style bank account confiscation a permanent part of the solution when major banks fail throughout the EU...
The new template is now likely to turn into a full-scale EU law, letting taxpayers off the hook in case a bail-out is needed, but imposing major losses on bigger savers on a permanent basis.
"You need to be able to do the bail-in as well with deposits," said Gunnar Hokmark, member of European Parliament, who is leading negotiations with EU countries to finalize a law for winding up problem banks, Reuters reported.
"Deposits below 100,000 euros are protected ... deposits above 100,000 euros are not protected and shall be treated as part of the capital that can be bailed in," Hokmark told Reuters, adding that he was confident a majority of his peers in the parliament backed the idea.
The European Commission has written the draft of the law, which now awaits approval from eurozone member states and the parliament on whether and when it can be implemented. It's been reported, the law is planned to take effect in the beginning of 2015.
Are you starting to understand?
The other day when I said that "The Global Elite Are Very Clearly Telling Us That They Plan To Raid Our Bank Accounts", I was not exaggerating.
When the crisis first erupted, they were told that 10 percent of all deposits over 100,000 euros would be confiscated.
Then a few days later they were told that it would be 40 percent.
Now, according to the Washington Post, those with deposits over 100,000 euros at the second largest bank in Cyprus may lose as much as 80 percent of those deposits...
A deal was finally reached in Brussels with other euro countries and the International Monetary Fund early Monday. The country's second-largest bank, Laiki, is to be split up, with its healthy assets being absorbed into the Bank of Cyprus. Savers with more 100,000 euros ($129,000) in either Bank of Cyprus and Laiki will face big losses. At Laiki, those could reach as much as 80 percent of amounts above the 100,000 insured limit; those at Bank of Cyprus are expected to be much lower.
Sadly, the truth is that those people will be lucky to ever see any of that money ever again.
How would you feel if someone came along and wiped out your life savings so that banks that took incredibly reckless risks could be bailed out?
Needless to say, a lot of people in Cyprus are very, very angry right now. The following reactions from outraged depositors in Cyprus are from Sky News...
"They have stolen our money," Milton Loucas told Sky News.
"I have been working for 60 years. I am 80 years old. I cannot work again for my living - they have cut the lot.
"Our money, our social insurance - they have cut them. How are we going to live?"
Another Cypriot, Stelios, came out of the bank empty handed.
"I tried to get my February wages and they gave me a piece of paper only," he said.
"I have two children in the army and they asked for money - I don't have money to give them.
"The Government didn't pay anybody. My old parents didn't get their pension."
A lot of people have just had their entire lives turned upside down.
But there were some people that were told ahead of the crisis and were able to get their money out in time.
According to the BBC, foreigners pulled a whopping 18 percent of their money out of Cyprus banks during the month of February alone...
Information from the Central Bank of Cyprus released on Thursday showed that foreign depositors had already withdrawn 18% of their cash from the nation's banks during February, before the current crisis hit home.
So how did they know to pull their money out and who told them?
In addition, branches of the two largest banks in Cyprus were kept open in Moscow and London even after all of the banks in Cyprus itself were shut down. So wealthy Russians and wealthy Brits have been able to take all of their money out of those banks while the people of Cyprus have been unable to. It is hard to even find the words to describe how unfair that is. The following is from a recent article by Mark J. Grant...
So let us then turn back to Cyprus and see why the Russians are not quite so upset as they were at the beginning of the crisis. The answer to this question is Uniastrum bank which is headquartered in Moscow. Eighty percent (80%) is owned by the Bank of Cyprus. After the crisis began and right up until the capital controls were implemented the bank was open for business with no restrictions upon withdrawals. So the crisis began, was all over the Press and the Russian depositors walked into the local bank and withdrew their money from Uniastrum, the Bank of Cyprus, or had it wired in from the other local Cyprus banks and it was then withdrawn. Problem solved!
At the same time Laiki bank and the Bank of Cyprus had operating branches in London. There were no restrictions there either so people could walk into those banks and withdraw their money as well. No restrictions at all right up until the time of the Capital Controls. In the meantime, in Cyprus, people and institutions could not get at their money so the Russians and many British took out their money, closed their accounts while the people in Cyprus were left high and dry.
The wealthy always seem to come out ahead somehow, don't they?
As well as the daily withdrawal limit, Cypriots may not cash cheques.
Payments and/or transfers outside Cyprus via debit and or credit cards are allowed up to 5,000 euros per person per month.
Transactions of 5,000-200,000 euros will be reviewed by a specially established committee, with applications for those over 200,000 euros needing individual approval.
Travellers leaving the country will only be allowed to take 1,000 euros with them.
When the next great wave of the economic collapse strikes, capital controls and bank account confiscation will suddenly become "normal" all over the world.
So get prepared while you still can.
One thing that you can do is make sure that you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. The following is what Jim Rogers recently told CNBC...
"I, for one, am making sure I don't have too much money in any one specific bank account anywhere in the world, because now there is a precedent," he said. "The IMF has said 'sure, loot the bank accounts' the EU has said 'loot the bank accounts' so you can be sure that other countries when problems come, are going to say, 'well, it's condoned by the EU, it's condoned by the IMF, so let's do it too.'"
The more places that you have your money, the more difficult it will be for "the powers that be" to loot it.
The global elite are fundamentally changing the game. From now on, no bank account on earth will ever be able to be considered "100% safe" again. This is going to create an atmosphere of fear and panic, and no financial system can operate normally when you destroy the confidence that people have in it.
Confidence is a funny thing - it can take decades to build, but it can be destroyed in a single moment.
None of us will ever be able to have confidence in our bank accounts again, and I fear that the next wave of the economic collapse may be closer than I had first anticipated.
Canadian Flag
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Blue"
I see the banks making about 10% or more, plus they are buying old bonds from desperate people that make as much or more.
What investment do you have Frosty?
Just some stocks, insurance, bonds, annuities, and low interest stuff that has low risk. I have a few plans.
I may in the future branch out some more, but for now I'm looking into some silver, a little at a time maybe.
I did have, but those accounts came due end of last year. I put them in something more stable since they didn't do all that well last few years.
I'm happy right now till I find something better, and then I may change some.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
The Dutch chairman of the eurozone told reporters that raiding bank accounts of savers could be repeated across Europe in places like Italy and Spain too. Jeroen Dijsselbloem said, if there is a risk in a bank, our first question should be, 'OK, what are you in the bank going to do about that? What can you do to recapitalize yourself?' If the bank can't do it, then we'll talk to the shareholders and the bondholders, we'll ask them to contribute in recapitalizing the bank, and if necessary the uninsured deposit holders.
It all made sense until that last sentence. Of course, a bank's shareholders should be on the hook for their own bank. But letting banks seize money that people trust them to keep in their safes? That's like telling car mechanics that to pay their debts, they should feel free to seize any car they're working on in their shop as long as it's a fancy car.
This is what has become of the European Union.
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
The Dutch chairman of the eurozone told reporters that raiding bank accounts of savers could be repeated across Europe in places like Italy and Spain too. Jeroen Dijsselbloem said, if there is a risk in a bank, our first question should be, 'OK, what are you in the bank going to do about that? What can you do to recapitalize yourself?' If the bank can't do it, then we'll talk to the shareholders and the bondholders, we'll ask them to contribute in recapitalizing the bank, and if necessary the uninsured deposit holders.
It all made sense until that last sentence. Of course, a bank's shareholders should be on the hook for their own bank. But letting banks seize money that people trust them to keep in their safes? That's like telling car mechanics that to pay their debts, they should feel free to seize any car they're working on in their shop as long as it's a fancy car.
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don't be so fast to criticize europs .....when it comes time to pay the piper in the USA and Canada...govts. here will have to use the same methods of wealth confiscation.
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Obvious Li"
The Dutch chairman of the eurozone told reporters that raiding bank accounts of savers could be repeated across Europe in places like Italy and Spain too. Jeroen Dijsselbloem said, if there is a risk in a bank, our first question should be, 'OK, what are you in the bank going to do about that? What can you do to recapitalize yourself?' If the bank can't do it, then we'll talk to the shareholders and the bondholders, we'll ask them to contribute in recapitalizing the bank, and if necessary the uninsured deposit holders.
It all made sense until that last sentence. Of course, a bank's shareholders should be on the hook for their own bank. But letting banks seize money that people trust them to keep in their safes? That's like telling car mechanics that to pay their debts, they should feel free to seize any car they're working on in their shop as long as it's a fancy car.
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don't be so fast to criticize europs .....when it comes time to pay the piper in the USA and Canada...govts. here will have to use the same methods of wealth confiscation.
Did they seize investments too or just bank accounts?
This is very frightening.