Quote
Every citizen in France has automatically become an organ donor unless they decide to opt out, due to a significant change in the law.
The new rules, which came into effect on 1 January, sees France's policy align with a number of European countries such as Spain and Austria, where "presumed consent" means anyone can become a donor of organs and tissues when they die unless they specifically choose not to.
In France, people will now need to sign up to a new National Rejection Register to ensure they do not become organ donors, which medical teams will check at the time of death before considering organ or tissue removal. A total of 150,000 people have already signed up to the register, according to the Guardian.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-citizens-organ-donors-france-opt-out-donation-hospital-healthcare-doctors-a7508576.html
I think this is a great idea. It would really solve the problem of lack of organ donation.
It could also be an underlying factor in a socialized medical system to offer less than optimal health care to those patients considered high cost and low chances of full recovery.
Legislated harvesting is fraught with dangers which I feel will inevitably increase with time.
There is a stigma in Chinese culture about organ donation..
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
There's also a scientific black cloud over it. Only now are researchers suggesting that life doesn't immediately cease after death. There may be many minutes, hours, or even days between the moment of noted death and detachment from the corpse. They're still looking into it.
What the french are doing is wrong .
A man should have the choice , whether they want to donate or not .
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
There's also a scientific black cloud over it. Only now are researchers suggesting that life doesn't immediately cease after death. There may be many minutes, hours, or even days between the moment of noted death and detachment from the corpse. They're still looking into it.
What does "detachment from the corpse" mean exactly?
Quote from: "RW"
Quote
Every citizen in France has automatically become an organ donor unless they decide to opt out, due to a significant change in the law.
The new rules, which came into effect on 1 January, sees France's policy align with a number of European countries such as Spain and Austria, where "presumed consent" means anyone can become a donor of organs and tissues when they die unless they specifically choose not to.
In France, people will now need to sign up to a new National Rejection Register to ensure they do not become organ donors, which medical teams will check at the time of death before considering organ or tissue removal. A total of 150,000 people have already signed up to the register, according to the Guardian.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-citizens-organ-donors-france-opt-out-donation-hospital-healthcare-doctors-a7508576.html
I think this is a great idea. It would really solve the problem of lack of organ donation.
Ya mean like the Chinese have done ?
just look on YT at the amount of Vids , of Chinese getting AIDS cos of their own GOVT .
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
There's also a scientific black cloud over it. Only now are researchers suggesting that life doesn't immediately cease after death. There may be many minutes, hours, or even days between the moment of noted death and detachment from the corpse. They're still looking into it.
What does "detachment from the corpse" mean exactly?
When does the spirit, our soul, or whatever you want to call it actually leave?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/758635/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-confirmed-gene-expression-afterlife
It's like the abortion debate. When does consciousness enter?
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
China needs organs. Since Chinese won't donate, Beijing takes.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
China needs organs. Since Chinese won't donate, Beijing takes.
It's what they've done best.
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
China needs organs. Since Chinese won't donate, Beijing takes.
They also take the AIDs with it .
Look it up on YT .
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
There's also a scientific black cloud over it. Only now are researchers suggesting that life doesn't immediately cease after death. There may be many minutes, hours, or even days between the moment of noted death and detachment from the corpse. They're still looking into it.
What does "detachment from the corpse" mean exactly?
When does the spirit, our soul, or whatever you want to call it actually leave?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/758635/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-confirmed-gene-expression-afterlife
It's like the abortion debate. When does consciousness enter?
So we should base organ donation time on souls? We don't need those parts any more regardless.
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
On the mainland, they are doing it without the people's consent.
There's also a scientific black cloud over it. Only now are researchers suggesting that life doesn't immediately cease after death. There may be many minutes, hours, or even days between the moment of noted death and detachment from the corpse. They're still looking into it.
What does "detachment from the corpse" mean exactly?
When does the spirit, our soul, or whatever you want to call it actually leave?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/758635/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-confirmed-gene-expression-afterlife
It's like the abortion debate. When does consciousness enter?
So we should base organ donation time on souls? We don't need those parts any more regardless.
There's no we unless people agree with you and 'opt in'.
Either or, death harvesting has straddled birth abortion in the perception stakes.
religious, spiritual, or not.
When does life begin or end? All still up in the air. More so now even.
For governments to move in on people's organs without express prior consent is an act of animal husbandry and treachery.
I'm pretty sure they have a concrete definition of dead.
The jury is still scientifically out.
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
You don't care to read between the lines then?
They still don't know the exact nature of human existence whether the moment of life or death begins or ends along any point on the near sliding scale.
Is a baby a person at 28 days? How about 56? What about just before birth?
Does a person cease to be 28 minutes or 28 hours after supposed death?
Do either feel pain or understand what's happening to them when their organs are being crushed, sucked out, or worse?
We're still flat earth on these questions. Nobody really knows. So why advocate for governmental sanctioned abortion or organ harvesting? Do you really trust those pricks over the various opinions of the bodies who must deal with either proposition?
What about animal organs?
Quote from: "Twenty Dollars"
I've heard of organs being used for humans....not in Muslims, Jews or Seventh Day Adventists though.
:laugh:
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
You don't care to read between the lines then?
They still don't know the exact nature of human existence whether the moment of life or death begins or ends along any point on the near sliding scale.
Is a baby a person at 28 days? How about 56? What about just before birth?
Does a person cease to be 28 minutes or 28 hours after supposed death?
Do either feel pain or understand what's happening to them when their organs are being crushed, sucked out, or worse?
We're still flat earth on these questions. Nobody really knows. So why advocate for governmental sanctioned abortion or organ harvesting? Do you really trust those pricks over the various opinions of the bodies who must deal with either proposition?
If your brain, the organ that interprets pain is not functioning, then how can you feel pain?
I don't see us being flat earth on these questions at all.
I think death can continue on giving life. There is a shortage of organ donors. This solves that issue.
I do worry about the legality of it though and am pretty sure it wouldn't fly here.
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
You don't care to read between the lines then?
They still don't know the exact nature of human existence whether the moment of life or death begins or ends along any point on the near sliding scale.
Is a baby a person at 28 days? How about 56? What about just before birth?
Does a person cease to be 28 minutes or 28 hours after supposed death?
Do either feel pain or understand what's happening to them when their organs are being crushed, sucked out, or worse?
We're still flat earth on these questions. Nobody really knows. So why advocate for governmental sanctioned abortion or organ harvesting? Do you really trust those pricks over the various opinions of the bodies who must deal with either proposition?
If your brain, the organ that interprets pain is not functioning, then how can you feel pain?
I don't see us being flat earth on these questions at all.
I think death can continue on giving life. There is a shortage of organ donors. This solves that issue.
I do worry about the legality of it though and am pretty sure it wouldn't fly here.
That's the thing though. How do we know if the brain completely ceases and what level of pain is present if at all? Science on it is conflicting.
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
You don't care to read between the lines then?
They still don't know the exact nature of human existence whether the moment of life or death begins or ends along any point on the near sliding scale.
Is a baby a person at 28 days? How about 56? What about just before birth?
Does a person cease to be 28 minutes or 28 hours after supposed death?
Do either feel pain or understand what's happening to them when their organs are being crushed, sucked out, or worse?
We're still flat earth on these questions. Nobody really knows. So why advocate for governmental sanctioned abortion or organ harvesting? Do you really trust those pricks over the various opinions of the bodies who must deal with either proposition?
If your brain, the organ that interprets pain is not functioning, then how can you feel pain?
I don't see us being flat earth on these questions at all.
I think death can continue on giving life. There is a shortage of organ donors. This solves that issue.
I do worry about the legality of it though and am pretty sure it wouldn't fly here.
That's the thing though. How do we know if the brain completely ceases and what level of pain is present if at all? Science on it is conflicting.
I haven't seen science conflicted about it at all.
Link?
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Read the link and then read between the lines. The medical community still can't agree when life begins, and now, when life ends.
Your article doesn't state any of these things.
I read they did a study on a couple animals and not all cells die when the host loses brain, heart and lung function. Some keep making proteins. That's about all it says.
You don't care to read between the lines then?
They still don't know the exact nature of human existence whether the moment of life or death begins or ends along any point on the near sliding scale.
Is a baby a person at 28 days? How about 56? What about just before birth?
Does a person cease to be 28 minutes or 28 hours after supposed death?
Do either feel pain or understand what's happening to them when their organs are being crushed, sucked out, or worse?
We're still flat earth on these questions. Nobody really knows. So why advocate for governmental sanctioned abortion or organ harvesting? Do you really trust those pricks over the various opinions of the bodies who must deal with either proposition?
If your brain, the organ that interprets pain is not functioning, then how can you feel pain?
I don't see us being flat earth on these questions at all.
I think death can continue on giving life. There is a shortage of organ donors. This solves that issue.
I do worry about the legality of it though and am pretty sure it wouldn't fly here.
That's the thing though. How do we know if the brain completely ceases and what level of pain is present if at all? Science on it is conflicting.
I haven't seen science conflicted about it at all.
Link?
I've got nothing immediately on hand but if you do a news search on researchers and death, I'm sure you'll find something worth a read.
I don't want news. I want science dear.
Quote from: "RW"
Sounds like you want other people to do the chores, dear.
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Sounds like you want other people to do the chores, dear.
Quit projecting Dinky dearest. You're trying to make a point while providing no supporting information. It's on you to back up your own claims.
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Sounds like you want other people to do the chores, dear.
Quit projecting Dinky dearest. You're trying to make a point while providing no supporting information. It's on you to back up your own claims.
I've made a measured point that the jury is still out on when life begins and life ends. Newspapers and academic journals have been awash with different findings, some still preliminary, for numerous years.
Pointing out that there is still no consensus doesn't require me to do anything. If YOU are too obstinate or lazy to accept it or look into for yourself, that's entirely on you.
If this is your half arsed attempt at muppet baby debate club 101, good luck with somebody else. ac_hithere
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Quote from: "RW"
Sounds like you want other people to do the chores, dear.
Quit projecting Dinky dearest. You're trying to make a point while providing no supporting information. It's on you to back up your own claims.
I've made a measured point that the jury is still out on when life begins and life ends. Newspapers and academic journals have been awash with different findings, some still preliminary, for numerous years.
Pointing out that there is still no consensus doesn't require me to do anything. If YOU are too obstinate or lazy to accept it or look into for yourself, that's entirely on you.
If this is your half arsed attempt at muppet baby debate club 101, good luck with somebody else. ac_hithere
When a person needs drugs and machines to keep their heart beating they are dead. The death certificate won't say that, but that's my opinion.