Greeting all! New poster here, along with review of my new Model 66. Longtime firearms owner, first time S&W owner.
I should add that I live in Canuckistan, where the vast majority cannot own older 66's with 4" barrels or less, as barrels here generally speaking have to be over 4.16" in length for ordinary citizens to own. Silly rules, but it is what it is. (This explains why some newer revolvers have barrels produced in what would be considered historically odd lengths in the US. 4.2", 4.25", etc.)
As I've always liked the older K frame Magnums in 4", I am excited to finally get my hands on one that I can actually own! So, let's get right down to the nitty-gritty...
First off, I think there's something wrong with it. First time with it at the range today, and noticed it's shooting a bit high. Shooting done @ 7 yards. Of course I had my little screwdriver on hand to fine-tune the sight. Rear sight was already adjusted all the way down, right from the factory. Tight. No more room for adjustment. Now we've got a problem. You shouldn't have to take a Dremel and chop down a new sight just to aim it! I'm trying to think of the geometrics that could cause this... Is the barrel not linear? Is it 'bent up?' I don't know! I've never had an issue like this before on a brand new gun. The guy that test-fired it at the factory should have known right away that something was borderline, as he would have known he bottomed the rear sight as much as it could go. It perhaps should have went into a bin, instead of into the blue plastic box!
I really want to like this gun, so let's move on for now...
Fit and finish elsewhere is great! I see no marks, burrs, etc. Everything else seems to line up properly. One little niggle I have is that the new ball detent at the front of the cylinder just barely catches into the groove, but it nonetheless does and I wouldn't expect to see a problem arise because of this.
Trigger pull crisp and clean, but extremely heavy! So heavy, that I installed a Wolff spring kit before I went to the range. I used a fish scale for a rudimentary trigger pull assessment. Understand that I could not pull quite linearly on the trigger with my fish scale, but nonetheless here were the numbers: Stock: 14lbs~ pull. Wolff reduced mainspring pull: 8lbs~ pull. I also used the 13lb return spring, and that seems to function just fine for me.
Now the problems with the Wolff reduced power mainspring in my particular gun, and this is with the mainspring strain-screw fully tightened in... It will not reliably fire. American Eagle .357's had maybe a 80% success rate. Fiocchi .357 targets and Hornady .357 HP defense rounds both had literally a 10% success rate in their primers firing. What I will do about this, is get the Wolff 'standard' mainspring, which is claimed to match the pull/force of the factory S&W mainspring, but yet others still claim to see trigger-pull improvement even with the 'full power' Wolff mainspring. I can report back on these claims once I manage to do this myself, which will be sooner rather than later! When I pull trigger, gun must go boom!
So, there ya have a long-winded first post! A few issues to deal with, but I am consistent almost to the point of OCD! I will get this revolver right, but it may take a bit of work yet!
Dammit... You fucking yanks should be able to start making quality shit again, when I pay over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND dollars for a new revolver!
Sorry for the copy pasta, but I didn't want to type it out again.
FUCK!
I'm trying not to get pissy about this, but I spent a lot of money 'upgrading' to S&W.
Contrary to what you people may think, I do target this, and I'm fucking pissed off now.
Now I gotta cry to S&W, and it may or may not go anywhere. Understand this is a revolver that costs well over $1,000 CDN. I often wonder why I even bother with things/hobbies, as they usually cause me nothing but hassle.
As the thread name implies, it is time for some 'Dammit.' Drinks are on me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0g16_LQaQ
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Single & White?
:MG_216:
:roll:
I think I'm going to contact S&W customer service, and see what they say about the sight issue. Maybe they know of a solution...
It niggles me, and I don't like being niggled. I wasn't niggardly, on the contrary spending well over $1,000CDN for it.
Maybe they won't renig on their 'Lifetime Warranty" claim.
I wasn't niggardly, the problem niggles me, and I hope they don't renig...
Is it gun registered?
Do you have a pistol licence?
Yes. Handguns here all have to be registered. Long guns used to be also, but the Harper government scrapped the long gun registry.
Yes. Here, it is called a 'Restricted' endorsement. One can take extra steps and apply this endorsement to their regular Firearms Licence, which is for long guns.
Now, on my reading of Canadian firerams law...posted elsewhere...you need to fulfil certain requirements to possess a pistol.
How did you qualify for said special requirement?
Here, now I'm trying to remember, as it was like 15 years ago I had restricted applied...
First off, as with all Firearms Licenses issued here, there is a criminal records check. The RCMP does not release the 'threshold' one must meet, to acquire either types of licensing (Long Gun and Handgun). Herman has only his regular long-gun license, as he has a criminal record. They may or may not issue him a restricted license, depending on what his record consists of. Again, these thresholds are not made public, but I would assume a "Restricted" endorsement holder would be subject to higher standards. If someone spent some time in a mental hospital, and was deemed a danger, this could most likely also send a 'red flag,' but again this is not disclosed to the public.
To get a restricted, you are tested on your knowledge of the restricted gun. I.E. safe storage, transport, etc., which does differ from long guns. You also have to have two references that know you, vouch on your behalf that you are of good character.
You used to be able to just "challenge" the test, meaning that if your were really knowledgeable you could take the test in front of, say, a licenced firearms instructor. They recently changed that, and now everyone has to take an approved 'training' class before taking the test. I think it was like a day long course...
Renee, I see you logged in and hovering down at the bottom. Don't be afraid to talk guns with Uncle Ace. I know you want to.
LOLZ! Now she logged back out...
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
I haven't logged out.....
Mel,....just an FYI, you mentioned that you shot the revolver at 7 yards and it prints high....S&W regulates the sights on their revolvers at the factory at 25 yards benched. For a .357 the load they use is a 158gr SWC at around 1250 fps, which is the typical old school police load. If you haven't fired the weapon at that range with that particular load...please do so. See where it prints and if you are satisfied, start changing loads and adjust your range. Just be aware that a lighter bullet will tend to print low and a heavier will typically print high.
If you do not get the results you want, Smith makes a couple of different rear sights of varying heights for most of their adjustable sight revolvers. Measure the rear sight top to bottom with a set of calipers and order a shorter sight. You can get them directly from Smith or you can go to Midway or even Amazon. So do yourself a favor and reserve the dremel for lancing the boils on your ass and keep it away from the weapon.
Secondly, get rid of the wolf main spring....it's shit. Changing out the springs on a new revolver right out of the box was a mistake. Any action job begins with a deburring and a polishing of the internals before you start messing with springs. That main spring it too light and even if you put in the 15lb rebound spring you are still going to be limited to soft primer ammo like Federal or a hand load fitted with a CCI 300 LP primer.
So congrats on your purchase and enjoy it.....just don't handle it while you are fucked up. ac_biggrin
Now I'm logging out....early train tomorrow morning.
Now we're getting somewhere! Thanks for the feedback, Renee.
Why the hell would S&W sight iron revolver sights out to 25 yards? My Ruger GP100 and P90 both had enough adjustability built in where I could shoot low or high at any range, should I desire to do so! Will try again at the range, but I'm not sure I can even shoot an iron sight revolver at 25 yards very well to begin with...
The Wolff kits work great for some, it seems. Not for mine. Will try the 'standard' Wolff mainspring. They are cheap enough, and easy to replace. The factory mainspring is heavier than any revolver I have ever fired, and will not go back in.
And I did talk to a 'Smith about a trigger job. The guy was honest... His take? Why would I want to pay him to 'wear out' the trigger action prematurely. His belief? Shoot the thing, and shoot it often, and the trigger mechanism will 'job' itself.
Not the best business model, but nonetheless an honest opinion from a man that earns his living smithing...
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
First off, as with all Firearms Licenses issued here, there is a criminal records check. The RCMP does not release the 'threshold' one must meet, to acquire either types of licensing (Long Gun and Handgun). Herman has only his regular long-gun license, as he has a criminal record. They may or may not issue him a restricted license, depending on what his record consists of. Again, these thresholds are not made public, but I would assume a "Restricted" endorsement holder would be subject to higher standards. If someone spent some time in a mental hospital, and was deemed a danger, this could most likely also send a 'red flag,' but again this is not disclosed to the public.
To get a restricted, you are tested on your knowledge of the restricted gun. I.E. safe storage, transport, etc., which does differ from long guns. You also have to have two references that know you, vouch on your behalf that you are of good character.
Nice.
Now, what was the justification you used to possess a pistol?
Quote from: "Renee"
Now I'm logging out....early train tomorrow morning.
That's good.
Be under it.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Now, what was the justification you used to possess a pistol?
In Canada, unlike a long gun, you are correct in the fact that one needs a 'reason' to be able to own a handgun.
I'll break this down... Now understand that Peace Officers are exempt from any of these conditions, as they have their own policies on handguns.
So, first we have work related. This would mean Brinks armoured truck personnel, etc. They are armed.
Second, and this permit is rarely given, but there have been some remote location animal trappers that have been approved to carry sidearms.
Third, and very rarely given again, is if the Chief Firearms Officer believes your life is in immediate threat, and the police are unable to protect you, you can be given the approval to pack a heater. This is so rare, and I don't think the numbers have even been released for the amount of concealed carry individuals here.
Fourth, and not listed, is personal security personnel for high profile individuals. This is a 'grey area.' I will assume that these people are permitted to pack through the Police Act, and bypass the Firearms Act altogether. Here, I can only assume, as this is not made public.
Fifth, collectors. Bona-fide collectors can own things that most citizens cannot. Their standards are kept high.
And sixth, which is the category that 99.9% of handgun owners in Canada would be, is target shooting for sport. This is a valid reason in this nation. Whether you like it or not, is not my problem.
Nonetheless, I'm glad you asked, so you can see how our system works here, from somebody that knows. Not all Commonwealth nations follow the same rule of laws, contrary to your beliefs.
Now, if you want to know about the storage and transport rules applicable to handguns here, I am more than happy to answer that question also. I am sure you will find them quite 'restrictive' compared to the US, hence why this endorsement is called exactly that... "Restricted." Long-guns are considered here 'Non-Restricted.'
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Why the hell would S&W sight iron revolver sights out to 25 yards? My Ruger GP100 and P90 both had enough adjustability built in where I could shoot low or high at any range, should I desire to do so! Will try again at the range, but I'm not sure I can even shoot an iron sight revolver at 25 yards very well to begin with...
The Wolff kits work great for some, it seems. Not for mine. Will try the 'standard' Wolff mainspring. They are cheap enough, and easy to replace. The factory mainspring is heavier than any revolver I have ever fired, and will not go back in.
The reason S&W regulates their handguns at 25 yards is because that is the target distance used in DCM and NRA precision, timed, rapid fire 900 and 2700 events. It's 50 yards for slow fire competition. I believe the miltary uses similar distances for their hangun matches as well.
S&W expects all their service revolvers to perform within their standards at that distance or they don't pass quality control. Years ago, before my time, when you purchased some of their specialized target weapons like the model 14 or 52, you would actually get the target shot at the factory. As for the rear sight, I have 30 plus years expeirence with S&W revolvers and yours wouldn't be the first one I've seen screwed all the way down from the factory. My advice is get a pistol rest and shoot it single action until you can get acceptable groups at 25 yards
And as for your Wolff reduced power main spring...It's also my experience that they work more reliably on older K and J frames (pre 1997) that have the free floating hammer mounted firing pin. As you know, your Smith has the frame mounted firing pin with the transfer bar similar to the L and N frames. It seems that the reduced power main spring and the newer ignition system can be a mixed bag. You should be fine with the standard Wolff replacement.
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Not the best business model, but nonetheless an honest opinion from a man that earns his living smithing...
Wow, that is a pretty crappy business model, especially when you consider that trigger jobs used to be one of the S&W Performance Center's bread and butter services. Are you sure you didn't speak to one of the office cleaning people?
The kind of trigger job they do for a duty weapon like your 4" M66 is not going to prematurely wear it out. All they do is take off the burrs left during production. You can shoot the crap out of it and get the same effect but a deburring will save you time and money. Also if you intend to shoot the shit out of your K, please be careful with the load. I've seen too many K frames with cracked forcing cones, cylinder gap and timing problems from being fed a steady diet of full power or hot .357 loads. I have a 4" M19 that was an old duty weapon, that has a cracked forcing cone and timing issues for that very reason. The K frame is a weapon meant to be carried hot but shot cool. In other words, while you are breaking it in put lighter loads thru it, or better yet,...38s. The action won't know the difference.
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Not the best business model, but nonetheless an honest opinion from a man that earns his living smithing...
Wow, that is a pretty crappy business model, especially when you consider that trigger jobs used to be one of the S&W Performance Center's bread and butter services. Are you sure you didn't speak to one of the office cleaning people?
The kind of trigger job they do for a duty weapon like your 4" M66 is not going to prematurely wear it out. All they do is take off the burrs left during production. You can shoot the crap out of it and get the same effect but a deburring will save you time and money. Also if you intend to shoot the shit out of your K, please be careful with the load. I've seen too many K frames with cracked forcing cones, cylinder gap and timing problems from being fed a steady diet of full power or hot .357 loads. I have a 4" M19 that was an old duty weapon, that has a cracked forcing cone and timing issues for that very reason. The K frame is a weapon meant to be carried hot but shot cool. In other words, while you are breaking it in put lighter loads thru it, or better yet,...38s. The action won't know the difference.
RENEE
:23tfup5:
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
First off, as with all Firearms Licenses issued here, there is a criminal records check. The RCMP does not release the 'threshold' one must meet, to acquire either types of licensing (Long Gun and Handgun). Herman has only his regular long-gun license, as he has a criminal record. They may or may not issue him a restricted license, depending on what his record consists of. Again, these thresholds are not made public, but I would assume a "Restricted" endorsement holder would be subject to higher standards. If someone spent some time in a mental hospital, and was deemed a danger, this could most likely also send a 'red flag,' but again this is not disclosed to the public.
To get a restricted, you are tested on your knowledge of the restricted gun. I.E. safe storage, transport, etc., which does differ from long guns. You also have to have two references that know you, vouch on your behalf that you are of good character.
Nice. However, you ommitted an important point.
"In order to fire the restricted fire arm legally you will need a license for either target shooting or Employment/protection of life purposes. The latter license is so extremely difficult to get there is little reason to discuss it here. For a target practice license you will need to prove that you are a member of an approved shooting facility and that you practice or compete at same. This will most certainly require you to pass another CFO investigation which will most certainly include interviews with persons at your shooting facility."
Are you a member of a pistol club?
Quote from: "Bricktop"
That is a prerequisite when you initially apply, and generally a prerequisite when new restricted firearms are transferred into ones name.
So yes, I am, and have been, but letting it lapse it not a big deal either, since maintaining a current membership does not restrict your ability to continue to own and operate a restricted firearm.
I cannot edit my posts... I meant to say, that NOT maintaining a current membership, doesn't affect what you currently own.
It's one of those dumb 'requirements' that may or may not be a requirement, depending on how the CFO feels that day.
Since we can only shoot handguns at licenced ranges, it is assumed that we will shoot at ranges. Membership proves nothing. I go to various ranges as a drop-in, and that in itself should be good enough.
It's one of those dumb formalities that serves no use, and is getting less and less 'enforced' over time, I have noticed.
I'll try to clarify this requirement for you...
Once we have handgun, we are permitted to shoot at any range in this entire Province.
What has happened, is that ranges have admitted members, even on-line, for a low cost (like $50/year), which satisfies this requirement.
It doesn't matter if I live in Vancouver, but get online membership for nothing in fucking Smithers or wherever.
So you see, this is technically a requirement, but one that I can see has no advantages to anyone but the gun clubs themselves.
It's not exactly heavily enforced, and this is the reason why... It actually serves no useful purpose at all. ANY range will take your money, and make you a member, so it really only suits the ranges.
Quote from: "Renee"
I have some news for you! The 'new' Model 66 Combat Magnum has claimed to address these issues, with an improved forcing cone! It no longer thins out at the bottom where the crane swings in. It's 'full thickness' all around.
Also, the cylinder has a new 'ball detent' catch at the front.
S&W has claimed to address the problems of the 'old' 66, with this 'new' 66. It is a different design in a few ways.
I had some really good pics of my 'new' Model 66 that I posted here, where you could see some of these changes that you may not be familiar with, but a few posters here shit up that thread so badly, that I got furious and deleted each and every one of my posts.
That's why I still cannot edit any of my posts here now. I was 'stripped' of my editing privileges. Oh well...
In other words, you are NOT complying with the law regarding handguns, as I've been saying for weeks.
I am. Bricktop, you don't live here, and you aren't familiar with our laws, and how they are implemented.
This can go back and forth for 20 more fucking years, with the same end result. You are not a cop anymore, you are not a cop here, and I am giving you honest advice on how our system works.
You are in possession of an illegal firearm.
There is NO question. I can read, dumbshit, and you need to be an active member of a recognised shooting club.
You can flim flam all you want...you are not authorised to possess a handgun.
We can always ask the RCMP for their opinion.
Quote from: "Renee"
This is good advice that I am going to follow through with.
From my own rudimentary measurements, my sight is a .160 height sight. I see that S&W makes the same White Outline sight in a .126 height.
Doesn't seem like much, but that may JUST make the difference! AND I keep it 'looking' factory, which I want to.
So, what I will do, is email S&W my concern, and the possible solution. If they send me a new sight? Awesome! I will deal with the install.
If not? S&W does not ship to Canada, but Brownell's and Midway do, so I'm not worried if I have to eat the cost. My 'smith would probably install the blade for nothing. Would do it myself, but a special tool is required for sight blade installs. I'm sure he has it.
So, I will try that. Along with a 'standard' Wolff mainspring (will report the pull, via my fish scale), and I hope I should be good! If it is anywhere between their 'reduced weight' springs, and S&W stock 14# pull, I'll be happy.
Even owning a gun isn't easy these days...
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Bricktop, I tried with you. I really did.
Sorry buddy, but you now join the leagues of the 'Oscar Meyer's.'
Know what that means? Means you end up just like him.
Good way to leave your presence known... Your 'legacy.' I'm sure your children will be proud.
And Renee, I apologize for the idiot that is permitted to pollute my threads, but I do respect your knowledge.
I've always known you 'knew your shit,' but I am seeing more technical aspects now.
Keep it coming.
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
I've always known you 'knew your shit,' but I am seeing more technical aspects now.
Keep it coming.
:pop:
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Bricktop, I tried with you. I really did.
Sorry buddy, but you now join the leagues of the 'Oscar Meyer's.'
Know what that means? Means you end up just like him.
Good way to leave your presence known... Your 'legacy.' I'm sure your children will be proud.
:pop: ac_boring
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
I've always known you 'knew your shit,' but I am seeing more technical aspects now.
Keep it coming.
No need to apologize to me. It is what is. It's all just white noise.
Enjoy your 66, have fun and be safe. :thumbup:
By all means, join in, you two faced, 4-chinned harridan. Don't leave.
Quote from: "Renee"
Quote from: "Angry White Male"
I've always known you 'knew your shit,' but I am seeing more technical aspects now.
Keep it coming.
No need to apologize to me. It is what is. It's all just white noise.
Enjoy your 66, have fun and be safe. :thumbup:
I know you know a lot of firearms..
You have fun and be safe too Renee.
ac_smile
Well, she's always shooting her mouth off.
Quote from: "Bricktop"
We all do that.
Some of us do it out in the open.
Ol' Renee likes to talk about people behind their back, on matters she knows fuck all about.
A rather nasty person all round, really.