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THeBlueCashew

General Discussion => The Flea Trap => Topic started by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 12:35:59 AM

Title: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 12:35:59 AM
Appears to me that the semi truck (loaded B-Train truck and trailers combo) ran a stop sign, possibly with the sun in his eyes.



For the vehicles to end where they were, the semi would have had to have more forward momentum than would be possible if just accelerating away from the stop sign.



In this first image, we can see what the bus driver would have seen right before impact.  Notice the crosses on the right...  Not the first time a fatal happened here.  The semi-truck was heading West, meaning it would have come from the right, where there is a stop sign.





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This would be the North West corner of the intersection, where these vehicles ended up.  Appears that the bus T-Boned the semi's flat deck trailers.





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Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2018, 12:53:44 AM
Six people were killed at that same spot about twenty years ago.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 12:55:19 AM
That would explain the crosses in my Google Street snip...
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 01:06:20 AM
The semi and bus ended up where those two pickup trucks are parked in the Google Street snip...
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 01:23:30 AM
Not that I stick up for the semi-driver (even though I do this work, I have worked alongside enough brain-dead idiots), but having myself trucked through the prairies, I can attest to the fact that when the sun is close to setting, it can be brutally blinding for a little while.  If one isn't familiar with the area, and can anticipate where the stop signs are, I can easily see how this can happen.



Obviously it is the fault of the semi-driver, and we can attempt to get justice and lay blame, but there is a more important lesson here to be learned...  When your time comes, it comes.



Literally a split-second either way, and these vehicles would not have collided.  They did.  On a stretch of road that is not very busy.



I have seen similar instances in "Mayday:  Air Crash Disasters."  Of all the open space in the skies, shit just came together in a bad way.  Usually human error.



It should give one pause to think...  Although we are all "safety safety safety" these days, and wouldn't even think about letting our kids out of the house without wearing a helmet, never forget that life can end fast, no matter what you do.  It is a consequence of living.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2018, 01:27:43 AM
Did he survive?
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 01:31:28 AM
The semi truck driver walked away with minor injuries, as they almost always do.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2018, 01:32:35 AM
Semi drivers get killed too.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 01:35:18 AM
I know they do, but it is very rare.  Most deaths in this industry happen when they are doing duties other than driving...



Since I run a business in this industry, I do have to pay into what's called "WorkSafeBC" here.  Known as Workers Comp to the average guy.  I pay a percentage based on what my business earns, or more correctly what I pay out in wages and/or dividends.  The rates fluctuate depending on industry, and this industry is at the very high end of what one must pay.  It's right behind loggers and fishermen.



These deaths mainly happen due to a variety of non-driving related hazards, to which there can be many depending on what segment of this industry you work in.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 02:22:57 AM
One thing that is strangely absent from this image is straps.  Tie down straps.  They are usually bright yellow, and would stick out.  There should be at least a couple dozen of them or so.



I have done plenty of deck work, and I'm assuming these are B-Train deck trailers.



Where the fuck are the tie-down straps?



Lack of straps would only be attempted for very short hauls, when nobody is looking...  Could also explain why hesitant to hit brakes...  Non-secured load would shift.



Not sure why I didn't spot this earlier...







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Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 02:33:04 AM
That load was completely unsecured.  Reeks of repetitive close local moves, meaning that this truck would do a very short run multiple times per day back and forth to the same places, and hoping to not get caught doing so.  Running a load unstrapped or unsecured is against every law in the book.  If it hits a public road, the load must be secured, and in the case of decks?  Secured via straps or chains.  I won't bore you with the exact requirements.



I cannot tell what that cargo is, but many years ago I hauled Peat that was packaged in similar sized bundles down to California, but I am just assuming at this point, as they could really be anything.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 09, 2018, 03:00:17 AM
Why was that fucking load not secured?



Now my results have changed tone.



Now we will have to examine the practices of the truck, the driver, and the company that employed them.



Not all trucks that have sleepers are utilized as highway "long haul" trucks.  Many get hired on doing local work.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2018, 05:54:09 AM
No restraints would have held with an impact that severe. Nor would the load have been a contributing factor. However, it show's all the signs of excessive speed through an intersection.



Our trucks all have GPS on them now...with black box recorders.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
It appears the truck driver did drive through a stop sign.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2018, 07:02:09 PM
At a significant speed. Not only did he not stop, he did not brake or slow down.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2018, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"At a significant speed. Not only did he not stop, he did not brake or slow down.

He didn't see the Stop sign.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 09, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
That would seem obvious...but he did not see the looming intersection either. I'm sure that there would have been a warning sign some distance before the intersection. First instinct is he was asleep at the wheel.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 12:24:23 AM
I have viewed some higher quality images now available, and the load was strapped.  It was on its way to Alberta, which is some distance away.



He loaded up the bags of Peat (I was right with my guess of what those bags contained) just up the road, so doubtful he fell asleep two minutes after strapping down a load.



Unfamiliarity with the area...  sun in his eyes is very possible, but nonetheless he blew through the stop sign.  That much we can tell.  Won't rule out fucking with his phone (distraction).



In a weird twist, those crosses from 20 years ago were from a passenger car that blew through the stop sign, and hit a semi that had the right of way.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 12:30:33 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop" However, it show's all the signs of excessive speed through an intersection.

Not necessarily excessive speed, just excessive speed past the point of the stop sign that he didn't stop for!
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2018, 12:48:24 AM
That is excessive speed. Note I did not say "illegal" speed.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 01:16:46 AM
Those Prairie roads are all flat, and can go on for miles.  No mountains, no hills, no curves, just flat.  Sun in eyes can be brutal.



I'm sure many parts of Australia can be like that also.



Where I live here it is not like that.



If not for the limited population out there, there would probably be many more accidents like this.  No doubt many people have accidentally blew through stop signs historically, but just have been lucky.  If they didn't realize just how lucky they were, instances like this remind us just how quick shit can go bad.



The semi driver...  his career is finished most likely.  Depending on his mental strength, he may or may not live the rest of his life normally.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2018, 01:21:56 AM
His career is finished because if your laws are anything like ours, he's going to be missing a driver's licence for a very long time.



In fact, he may be fortunate to avoid spending a little time getting a striped suntan. And if it is proven that he was using a phone, or affected by drugs...then that would be a VERY long time.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 01:52:25 AM
Our laws are different.



Let's assume he was blinded by the sun, and couldn't see the sign.  He would be given a MVA ticket for disobeying a road sign.  Not a big deal at all.



In a case like this, the cops may up that offense to something like "Driving without due care and attention," which is an actual criminal code offense.  If found guilty under that, he may be stripped of his licence, but in a case like this (if no negligence can be proven), he may or may not get a licence suspension.  If it were, it might be for a year or so.



Our laws are very easy on people that truly just had a momentary lapse of judgement, and caused an accident.  You see, the end result (the deaths of 15) often cannot come into play during judgement and sentencing.  



Unless some negligence can be proven, he would face the same punishment as a car driver that blew through the stop sign and killed one, if you understand what I'm getting at.



Many employers, however, may be hesitant to hire him in the future though, and this is where he'll run into a potential problem.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 02:08:28 AM
Western rule of law, rightfully so, often doesn't take into account the outcome, but the act itself.



This makes sense, as we are all human.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 10, 2018, 02:28:21 AM
I am well aware of that.



Nonetheless, to argue that "I was paying due diligence, and driving at a speed safe under the conditions whereby my vision was impaired by low sunlight" will take a rather good lawyer.



If he was dazzled by the sun (he wouldn't have been, I believe the collision took place early-mid afternoon) he should have slowed down.



He's for a government funded holiday. Driving a 40 tonne rig in a manner that could cause such death is not going to be a fine and slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 02:42:24 AM
At that time of day the crash happened, the sun would have been strong, and he was driving West facing it.



Nonetheless, you are correct...  when in doubt of your vision, slow down or stop until you can get some proper vision.  I have done just that in Montana.



You are wrong about the jail time though...  Unless some negligence can be proven, he will not be sentenced to prison here.  Trust me.  I know this industry, and the justice system here well enough.



He made a mistake.  However, if negligence can be proven, then that is a different story.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 10, 2018, 03:00:16 AM
I shouldn't have to explain this to you, Bricktop...



If he was fucking around and texting on his phone, that could be negligence, but moreso Driving Without Due Care and Attention.  If he knew his brakes were faulty, but decided to keep driving anyhow, that is negligence.



If he was drunk or high, that would be separate criminal code charges.



We know he fucked up, but let's let the pros examine the situation further.  If he was rolling legit, and just made a simple mistake (the biggest mistake of his life), he won't spend time in prison.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2018, 04:01:54 PM
Quote from: "Bricktop"I am well aware of that.



Nonetheless, to argue that "I was paying due diligence, and driving at a speed safe under the conditions whereby my vision was impaired by low sunlight" will take a rather good lawyer.



If he was dazzled by the sun (he wouldn't have been, I believe the collision took place early-mid afternoon) he should have slowed down.



He's for a government funded holiday. Driving a 40 tonne rig in a manner that could cause such death is not going to be a fine and slap on the wrist.

He was held by the police briefly..



I don't know if he has been charged or charges are pending.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2018, 06:04:30 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"I am well aware of that.



Nonetheless, to argue that "I was paying due diligence, and driving at a speed safe under the conditions whereby my vision was impaired by low sunlight" will take a rather good lawyer.



If he was dazzled by the sun (he wouldn't have been, I believe the collision took place early-mid afternoon) he should have slowed down.



He's for a government funded holiday. Driving a 40 tonne rig in a manner that could cause such death is not going to be a fine and slap on the wrist.

He was held by the police briefly..



I don't know if he has been charged or charges are pending.

He will do some time.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 11, 2018, 02:14:23 AM
He won't do any time, unless they find something other than him simply making a mistake and blowing a stop-sign accidentally, or with sun in his eyes.



Have any of you ever been sent to jail for accidentally running a stop sign or red light?  Unless you were drunk or stoned, or had shown negligence, you will not go to jail.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 11, 2018, 02:22:22 AM
A rig hit a bus rite?  Killed  team of hockey dudes?  No one goes to prison for long Canada.  Majority of the guards at the prisons are idiots.  Lots of alckies and problems themselves.  Canada is so fuckin lax.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2018, 02:32:38 AM
Quote from: "Herman"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Bricktop"I am well aware of that.



Nonetheless, to argue that "I was paying due diligence, and driving at a speed safe under the conditions whereby my vision was impaired by low sunlight" will take a rather good lawyer.



If he was dazzled by the sun (he wouldn't have been, I believe the collision took place early-mid afternoon) he should have slowed down.



He's for a government funded holiday. Driving a 40 tonne rig in a manner that could cause such death is not going to be a fine and slap on the wrist.

He was held by the police briefly..



I don't know if he has been charged or charges are pending.

He will do some time.

I don't know, we'll  see..
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 11, 2018, 02:35:15 AM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"A rig hit a bus rite?

The rig blew through a stop sign, and the bus T-Boned it.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2018, 12:12:50 PM
The driver was an East Indian guy who owned two rigs. It's not the first time he has had safety issues.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2018, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: "iron horse jockey"The driver was an East Indian guy who owned two rigs. It's not the first time he has had safety issues.

Why does that matter.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Berry Sweet on April 11, 2018, 04:01:30 PM
This is Canada...no one is going to jail.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2018, 04:03:35 PM
Quote from: "Berry Sweet"This is Canada...no one is going to jail.

I don't know what if any charges the driver will face.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Bricktop on April 11, 2018, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "iron horse jockey"The driver was an East Indian guy who owned two rigs. It's not the first time he has had safety issues.

Why does that matter.


Indian's drive as bad as Chinese.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2018, 02:47:39 AM
Quote from: "Bricktop"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "iron horse jockey"The driver was an East Indian guy who owned two rigs. It's not the first time he has had safety issues.

Why does that matter.


Indian's drive as bad as Chinese.

If he had a record of unsafe equipment or driving he shouldn't have had his trucks registered..



But, his ethnicity is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Ace's Preliminary Saskatchewan Bus Crash Results...
Post by: Angry White Male on April 12, 2018, 03:50:51 AM
I used to road test guys when I was still a company employee at an old job I had as a company driver.  I didn't apply for this responsibility, nor did I even like doing it, but I was a pretty good driver, and as such was given the task to evaluate potential new employees before hire.  Eventually I refused the task of testing new potential drivers, even though I was paid more to sit and watch than I was to actually drive.  I didn't like doing it, plain and simple.  It caused me stress.



Nonetheless...



Some of the best drivers were White Males...  Though one female could shift better than most men, but that was an anomaly.



Next on the list would be EI's...  They are not bad, dependent on if they're FOB or not.  They get a bad rap because they literally have 'taken over' the industry, often undercutting to get there.



Asians?  Well, you KNOW I never did test an Asian, since they just aren't fit for this kind of work!  



Actually, I do know an Asian Owner/Operator...  He's OK, but around here they're FEW and FAR between!  He knows that!



Somehow his brains synapses got swapped, and he actually can drive a big-rig, which he owns also.  He looks like the 'bad guy' that you'd see in every Asian action movie...  The stereotypical 'bad guy' with the mean Asian frown...



Nonetheless, I have run into a lot of people in this industry.  Are new immigrants attracted to this industry in huge numbers?  Yes they absolutely are.  Are they all bad?  No.  Are there too many new immigrant players trying to get in on the scene?  Yes.  The rates cannot go any lower...
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