Title: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:37:38 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:37:38 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 04, 2018, 02:50:15 AM
Post by: Frood on May 04, 2018, 02:50:15 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 03:02:38 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 03:02:38 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 04, 2018, 03:06:22 AM
Post by: Frood on May 04, 2018, 03:06:22 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 04, 2018, 03:14:13 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 04, 2018, 03:14:13 AM
The shot fired low, bounced off the ground into the can.
I claimed full credit.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 09:19:14 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 09:19:14 AM
These particular rounds aren't cheap...Quote from: "Angry White Male"(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://i65.tinypic.com/312iz9g.jpg%22%3Ehttp://i65.tinypic.com/312iz9g.jpg%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
We bring bear spray.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 10:15:32 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 10:15:32 AM
Is this for an excursion into the woods? If so, lugging a shotgun would be cumbersome. I would suggest the .44 on the hip.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:31:48 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:31:48 AM
And ya, the 12 Gauge slug would only really have a use in bear country here, or for home protection.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:34:53 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:34:53 AM
I once hit a coke can at 50 metres with one of those things.Quote from: "Bricktop"
The shot fired low, bounced off the ground into the can.
I claimed full credit.
I would have too! Just like a game of pool, it doesn't matter how the ball gets sunk, as long as it gets sunk in the right pocket!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:50:10 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:50:10 AM
It is teh silliness that abounds here, and makes no sense to those with a logical thinking brain.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
In Canaduh, we cannot pack handguns into the woods! Only teh long guns...Quote from: "Angry White Male"
And ya, the 12 Gauge slug would only really have a use in bear country here, or for home protection.
Well thats a bunch of shit
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:56:12 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 10:56:12 AM
And yes, an eight pound shot gun does get heavy to carry around! They are rather large and cumbersome tools!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
Makes no sense, but it is what it is...Quote from: "Angry White Male"
And yes, an eight pound shot gun does get heavy to carry around! They are rather large and cumbersome tools!
I'd eventually like to put a sling on mine, but dont think it has mounts for one.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 11:20:57 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 11:20:57 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
Mine doesn't have a sling either. Might be handy to have one though, and are easy enough to install!Quote from: "Angry White Male"
My rifle has one, but the shotgun doesnt, I dont think it has mounts on the rail or the stock.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 11:34:32 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 11:34:32 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:53:34 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 11:53:34 AM
You can buy universal sling mounts for shotguns. They aren't terribly expensive.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Like even if the gun has no holes to accept it?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 04, 2018, 11:57:08 AM
Post by: kiebers on May 04, 2018, 11:57:08 AM
Mel get one of those long tube 3 gun competition shotguns. I think you can get 8 or more rounds in the tube.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 02:02:53 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 02:02:53 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:11:48 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 02:11:48 PM
Mel get one of those long tube 3 gun competition shotguns. I think you can get 8 or more rounds in the tube.Quote from: "kiebers"
I did own a defender type shottie in the past, and I think I could stuff eight shells into it! Problem with defender style shotties, is they're only good for one thing... Defending! However, once I installed a pistol grip, it did make for a relatively compact, easy to carry bush gun. Not even sure why I sold it...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 03:56:12 PM
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 03:56:12 PM
You'd only have to drill one hole in the buttstock. For instance the Browning BPS sling kit replaces the shell tube end cap with a sling mount, leaving just one hole to drill in stock...Quote from: "Angry White Male"https://www.cabelas.com/product/Uncle-Mikes-Browning-reg-BPS-Swivel-Sling-Adapter/739932.uts
So you are going to drill holes in your Kmart pump gun...No great damage there....
I've told you before but like usual you were drunk and billegerant and didn't want to hear it. If you are serious about hiking in big bear country...get yourself something like a Marlin Guide gun. Get the ported barrel as it will probably be too much gun for a little shrimp like you.
If you jump a pissed off male grizzly or accidentally get between a sow and her cubs, you might as well take that cheesy Jap Browning, shove it up your ass, and pull the trigger until it goes click. You'll want something with reliable knock down power and decent penetration.... Something the exact opposite of your dick....
While the 12 has sufficient shocking power, slugs are typically softer than you really want in an emergency situation. You dont want to be unpleasantly surprised at the lack of penetration when a determined grizzly is on top of you.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 04:01:49 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 04:01:49 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: realgrimm on May 04, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
Post by: realgrimm on May 04, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 04:23:20 PM
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 04:23:20 PM
A 12 gauge Magnum slug won't hit hard at all... Renne, Renne, Renee... what should we do with you.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
I didn't say that...go back and read...
12 gauge slugs simply do not have the penetration you need to reliably stop a charging bear. Because let's face it, you aren't going to shoot the bear unless it's trying to kill you. In a close near encounter (40 yards or under) you need to be able to take out the bear's central nervous system quickly, either through the skull or by breaking it's spine...for that you need a heavy bullet with good penetration..A heart or a lung a shot through soft tissue is not going to be reliable. You're going to end up a stain on the leaves.
Given the choice it would be prudent to carry something .44 caliber or bigger, preferably in a rifle.
Ask yourself this Mel, how many animals have you killed?And I don't mean with your dump truck or that poor pathetic caged cat. Do you know how they react when the adrenaline is pumping? Probably not. I've seen deer hit through the lungs with a 130gr .270 win and still run or more than 70 yards before dropping. They're dead on their hooves but they don't know it....I've seen them shot through the spine and drop like a stone as well....A deer isn't an angry bear...don't take chances if you can help it.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 04:27:11 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 04:27:11 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 05:09:44 PM
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 05:09:44 PM
The issue is, not sure I can justify the purchase of an elephant gun for the odd time I get my wilderness on, when the 12 Gauge is just so versatile!Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Well then take your chances....do what you want..let your bones bleach in the woods where some forest ranger can find them....
Just be advised that there are multiple parts to terminal bullet performance. Its a balancing act between expansion and penetration and it hinges on bullet size, construction, velocity and energy at the point of termination. A 12 gauge slug has the size and weight but it lacks velocity and proper construction. When faced with dangerous game...always go for what is going to give you reliable but controlled expansion while giving you enough energy for proper penetration.
Look at it this way, if a 12 gauge was the recommended weapon for dangerous game, then people would be shooting cape buffalo or rhinoceros with it....but they aren't, are they? I don't think anyone "alive" is that stupid.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 05:12:18 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 05:12:18 PM
The issue is, not sure I can justify the purchase of an elephant gun for the odd time I get my wilderness on, when the 12 Gauge is just so versatile!Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Well then take your chances....do what you want..let your bones bleach in the woods where some forest ranger can find them....:laugh: But take a hacksaw to the barrel of that bird gun so you can wheel it around in the bushes better...:laugh3:
Just be advised that there are multiple parts to terminal bullet performance. Its a balancing act between expansion and penetration and it hinges on bullet size, construction, velocity and energy at the point of termination. A 12 gauge slug has the size and weight but it lacks velocity and proper construction. When faced with dangerous game...always go for what is going to give you reliable but controlled expansion while giving you enough energy for proper penetration.
Look at it this way, if a 12 gauge was the recommended weapon for dangerous game, then people would be shooting cape buffalo or rhinoceros with it....but they aren't, are they? I don't think anyone "alive" is that stupid.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 05:54:09 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 05:54:09 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 05:58:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2018, 05:58:39 PM
Renee never stays for very long. She's busy trying to figure out how to bring a Howitzer along with her on the next family camping trip.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
She wants the whole herd.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
...get yourself something like a Marlin Guide gun.Quote from: "Renee"
This is a beautiful gun! Reminds me of my Marlin 30.30.
Given the choice it would be prudent to carry something .44 caliber or bigger, preferably in a rifle.
This is what I said earlier. Hate it he cant carry a pistol.
This is what the Alaskan state troopers carry...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 06:54:54 PM
Post by: Renee on May 04, 2018, 06:54:54 PM
Renee never stays for very long. She's busy trying to figure out how to bring a Howitzer along with her on the next family camping trip.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Hey Mel, I was thinking maybe leave the gun on the wall and just bring some bear spray....
On second thought that may not be a good idea either...You're likely to wake up one morning all fogged up from a bad night before, forget and use it for hair spray or some shit....
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 06:56:51 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 06:56:51 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 07:06:49 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 07:06:49 PM
Hey Mel, I was thinking maybe leave the gun on the wall and just bring some bear spray....
On second thought that may not be a good idea either...You're likely to wake up one morning all fogged up from a bad night before, forget and use it for hair spray or some shit....:laugh3:
Well, I do have bear bangers. Like a small flare that shoots up and goes bang. Supposed to scare away bears. Could always shoot one, and pray that the bear runs away instead of disemboweling me.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 07:08:48 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 07:08:48 PM
Ya, handgun carry for citizens in this country is verboten. There is an authorization that does permit handgun carry in the bush, but that is reserved for 'remote wilderness trappers' and such. Not many of those authorizations are issued, since you actually have to be an authentic remote wilderness trapper, and not just a pretend one...Quote from: "Angry White Male"
That sucks man.
I like what Im allowed to do for the most part, in this state.
I'll share a story with you. When I was young, and new to hunting. It started on my friends grandads land. We would load up, then go in the woods. Well that didnt last long as he passed away that next year I think it was. His land backed up to the national forest, and I knew another way in. The gravel lot I parked in backed up to the national forest. So I loaded up and went in. Lunch time came around, I came out, sat in my Jeep, ate my sammich, gun loaded in the seat. Game warden came around. I didnt realize I was in the wrong. Got a ticket for having a loaded rifle on a state road. My dad called me The Ticket Hunter lol.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 07:47:08 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 07:47:08 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 07:52:32 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 07:52:32 PM
Ya, we have kind of a similar law that states a gun must be empty while in transport in a motor vehicle. You can have the rifle sitting beside you, but it's supposed to be empty until you stop at wherever you're shooting at. Makes sense I guess, since most people wouldn't have a need to be shooting from a moving vehicle!Quote from: "Angry White Male":laugh:
Right, here is the same, no loaded rifle in vehicle. It also has to be in a case or have the chamber open and exposed. As far as a pistol, you can get a conceal permit, and carry loaded. Also Virginia is an open carry state. And the way I understand it, is if you are open carrying when you get in the vehicle, you are still open carrying. It remains in the holster. I cant have a loaded pistol on the seat or anything though. Then it has to be ammo in a separate container and stuff.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:12:08 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:12:08 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:27:20 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:27:20 PM
This contrasts to how you guys implement laws, leaving many of them up to the individual States to decide. Could get a little confusing if one moves around a lot!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 08:36:58 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 08:36:58 PM
One thing that's different here, is that most firearms laws/rules are implemented at a Federal level, so the rules are the same across the country.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
This contrasts to how you guys implement laws, leaving many of them up to the individual States to decide. Could get a little confusing if one moves around a lot!
It does, and it dont stop there, it varies County to County too!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 04, 2018, 08:49:58 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 04, 2018, 08:49:58 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
It does, and it dont stop there, it varies County to County too!Quote from: "Blazor":dash1:
And then you have a State like California, which isn't that far off from our laws in some respects. In fact, they're going to start registering ammunition next year?
At this rate, Canada will soon be more firearm friendly than California!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 09:02:45 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 04, 2018, 09:02:45 PM
It does, and it dont stop there, it varies County to County too!Quote from: "Blazor":dash1:
And then you have a State like California, which isn't that far off from our laws in some respects. In fact, they're going to start registering ammunition next year?
At this rate, Canada will soon be more firearm friendly than California!
I heard that about registered ammo
My son is 19, and now he cant even buy ammo until 21 now. Hell he has as many guns as I do lol.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 04, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 05, 2018, 05:38:56 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 05, 2018, 05:38:56 PM
Now, while I do agree that a well-placed shot is critical for instant death, remember that I am not a hunter. Hunting would generally permit someone the time to place a well-placed shot, provided you can shoot (I can shoot very well, but hunting live game is not my thing... Have nothing against responsible hunters).
When carrying solely for defense, I question anyone's ability to get in a perfectly placed shot when you may only have a few seconds to live. Generally in these situations one just simply aims at center mass, and unloads as many rounds as you can. In this type of scenario, I would imagine a 12 Gauge slug as being no less effective than many of the big bore, high powered rifle rounds...
Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 06, 2018, 11:16:34 AM
Post by: Renee on May 06, 2018, 11:16:34 AM
I don't know, Renee... I checked out some ballistics numbers, and your beloved .45-70 round has about 2,300 ft/lbs of energy @ muzzle, while the 12 Gauge slugs I posted have about 2,900 ft/lb @ muzzle. Clearly the 12 Gauge slug is a harder hitting round (at close range).Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Now, while I do agree that a well-placed shot is critical for instant death, remember that I am not a hunter. Hunting would generally permit someone the time to place a well-placed shot, provided you can shoot (I can shoot very well, but hunting live game is not my thing... Have nothing against responsible hunters).
When carrying solely for defense, I question anyone's ability to get in a perfectly placed shot when you may only have a few seconds to live. Generally in these situations one just simply aims at center mass, and unloads as many rounds as you can. In this type of scenario, I would imagine a 12 Gauge slug as being no less effective than many of the big bore, high powered reifle rounds...
Prove me wrong.
Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.
Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 06, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 06, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 06, 2018, 07:57:27 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 06, 2018, 07:57:27 PM
I don't know, Renee... I checked out some ballistics numbers, and your beloved .45-70 round has about 2,300 ft/lbs of energy @ muzzle, while the 12 Gauge slugs I posted have about 2,900 ft/lb @ muzzle. Clearly the 12 Gauge slug is a harder hitting round (at close range).Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Now, while I do agree that a well-placed shot is critical for instant death, remember that I am not a hunter. Hunting would generally permit someone the time to place a well-placed shot, provided you can shoot (I can shoot very well, but hunting live game is not my thing... Have nothing against responsible hunters).
When carrying solely for defense, I question anyone's ability to get in a perfectly placed shot when you may only have a few seconds to live. Generally in these situations one just simply aims at center mass, and unloads as many rounds as you can. In this type of scenario, I would imagine a 12 Gauge slug as being no less effective than many of the big bore, high powered reifle rounds...
Prove me wrong.
Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.
Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.:nea:
This is why America desperately needs gun control. And in Renee's case, mouth control.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
Can't we all just get bazookas?Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
No, because it's bad for your teeth.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 06, 2018, 09:02:20 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 06, 2018, 09:02:20 PM
1998???
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 09:45:17 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 09:45:17 AM
Especially if it is 20 years old!!!Quote from: "Bricktop"
1998???
Have they made it since then.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 02:06:22 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 02:06:22 PM
Especially if it is 20 years old!!!Quote from: "Bricktop"
1998???
Have they made it since then.
They still make it. They stopped the comic strip in 2011 but still make the gum with a brain teaser on the wrapper.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 07, 2018, 02:43:02 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 07, 2018, 02:43:02 PM
They still make it. They stopped the comic strip in 2011 but still make the gum with a brain teaser on the wrapper.
The comic strip was the best part back then lol.
Bubble Yum was always too yummy, and made ya wanna swallow it lol.
Chicklets (sp?) were good, but the flavor went away too quickly, and you wound up eating the whole pack in a sitting lol.
Another fave when I was a kid, was that Big Leauge Chew gum. Came in a pouch, shredded.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 03:02:40 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 03:02:40 PM
Hadn't thought about Chicklets in a long time. They were close to Juicy Fruit in taste or at least the tiny size was.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 07, 2018, 04:13:58 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 07, 2018, 04:13:58 PM
Super bubble was a good one too. Only reason to go get a haircut when I was very young...LOLQuote from: "kiebers"
Hadn't thought about Chicklets in a long time. They were close to Juicy Fruit in taste or at least the tiny size was.
Wasnt it the fruit striped gum, that you could eat the paper lol? One of 'em use to dissolve.
Do they even make the candy cigs anymore? I remember the gum ones, that you could blow out, and a lil puff of smoke would come out lol.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 05:33:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 05:33:28 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 07, 2018, 06:59:43 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 07, 2018, 06:59:43 PM
Do they even make the candy cigs anymore?
They had them here many years ago, but are verboten now.
They were called...and this is true..."Fags".
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 07:03:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 07:03:59 PM
Do they even make the candy cigs anymore?
They had them here many years ago, but are verboten now.
They were called...and this is true..."Fags".
I've never seen candy cigarettes.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 07:15:13 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 07, 2018, 07:15:13 PM
Do they even make the candy cigs anymore? I remember the gum ones, that you could blow out, and a lil puff of smoke would come out lol.
Yes they still make them. Google candy cigarettes and you will find them.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 08:27:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2018, 08:27:59 PM
Do they even make the candy cigs anymore? I remember the gum ones, that you could blow out, and a lil puff of smoke would come out lol.
Yes they still make them. Google candy cigarettes and you will find them.:smoking:
They are banned in most Western countries.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 12:02:11 AM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 12:02:11 AM
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 08, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 08, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
They were imitation cigarettes made of sugar candy and a strawberry flavoured "glowing" red tip.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 08, 2018, 03:58:48 AM
Post by: Frood on May 08, 2018, 03:58:48 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 07:25:34 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 07:25:34 AM
*sigh*Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/upload%20...%20te-box.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Is this considered offensive in Brazil today?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:42:33 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:42:33 AM
I usually have a pack of Dentyne in my purse.Quote from: "Fashionista"
I keep a tin of Altoids in my Jeep lol. Im actually not much of a gum guy, was when I was a kid though.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
They were called...and this is true..."Fags".
I remember lol.
I even use to keep my pack rolled up on my tshirt sleeve
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:47:39 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:47:39 AM
I've never seen candy cigarettes.
They actually had 2 kinds. One was gum, one was pretty much sugar lol.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:48:22 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:48:22 AM
Yes they still make them. Google candy cigarettes and you will find them.:smoking:
Cant believe they are still made in this overly sensitive PC world
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:52:29 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:52:29 AM
*sigh*Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?
Lol, that reminds me of a can I have. My favorite canned pork BBQ use to be James River brand. They went out of business. Anyway, they use to have a black waiter on the can. Someone complained, so they colored it in white/peach color, but forgot the hand lol. I kept one can as a conversation piece. It looks different than this one, this label was even older....
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:57:22 AM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:57:22 AM
I used to run across the road to buy my father a pack or two of smokes as a 6 year old. The trade was I got a free soft drink or pack of lollies for my efforts. The milk bar was a bit funny at first but still did it until asking me to ask my father to stop by with a photo of me to vouch for the purchases, which he did. No worries after that.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
I also remember the old cigarette knob machines. My mom would have me ride my bike to the store sometimes to buy them. The machine was like a vending machine, packs were less than a dollar.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:29:29 AM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:29:29 AM
*sigh*Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/upload%20...%20te-box.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Is this considered offensive in Brazil today?
Brazil is ground zero for snowflakism, PC paranoia and victimism. If you call someone "black" during an argument, you go to jail.
Like I said, the liberal retardation here has gone full circle. Civil war and territory division are coming.
Situation in Brazil here can be surmised easily - half of people here want some sort of communist Africa, while the other half wants a decent country, based on economical models and laws like the ones in the US.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:30:35 AM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:30:35 AM
I've never seen candy cigarettes.
They actually had 2 kinds. One was gum, one was pretty much sugar lol.(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://www.candywarehouse.com/assets/item/regular/cigarette-candy-packs-126709-im6.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://www.candywarehouse.com/assets/i%20...%2009-im6.jpg%22%3Ehttps://www.candywarehouse.com/assets/item/regular/cigarette-candy-packs-126709-im6.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/c1/de/48c1de3ddfbfe1df107dfba88b9c9257.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/c1/de%20...%209c9257.jpg%22%3Ehttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/c1/de/48c1de3ddfbfe1df107dfba88b9c9257.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/8c/9b/d38c9b668e240bf66f6c7290d9ffa04e.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/8c/9b%20...%20ffa04e.jpg%22%3Ehttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/8c/9b/d38c9b668e240bf66f6c7290d9ffa04e.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
I've heard some saying that they help when one is quitting smoking.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
I've heard some saying that they help when one is quitting smoking.
Possibly, I just smoked more pot
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 02:21:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 02:21:23 PM
*sigh*Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/upload%20...%20te-box.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Is this considered offensive in Brazil today?
Brazil is ground zero for snowflakism, PC paranoia and victimism. If you call someone "black" during an argument, you go to jail.
Like I said, the liberal retardation here has gone full circle. Civil war and territory division are coming.
Situation in Brazil here can be surmised easily - half of people here want some sort of communist Africa, while the other half wants a decent country, based on economical models and laws like the ones in the US.
I had no idea. I feel your pain man.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 08:50:53 PM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 08:50:53 PM
I've heard some saying that they help when one is quitting smoking.
Possibly, I just smoked more pot:laugh:
When I was a teen, I remember trying cigs and thinking how pointless they were
I was older than most when I tried pot, almost 20.
Drugs were always demonized here and in my city, it felt like the USSR sometimes. One of Brazil's biggest steel centers is in my city.
The Japanese built it in the 50's and the reality here used to feel different from the rest of Brazil in the 80's and 90's, thanks to all the dollars they would bring.
But the city was heavily policed. There was a massacre of workers who were trying to take over the steel plant n 1963, part of the communist insurrection that the military coup of 1964 stopped.
So with all the comfort and security compared to the rest of Brazil came a lot of repression. There were anti-drug lectures almost every week in my school.
I think you get the idea. In the 90's things changed and when California made it legal for medical purposes, I started seeing it differently
And when I tried, I knew I'd never be able to leave lady Mary LOL
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
*sigh*Quote from: "Red_brazilian_nut"
And to think that when I was a kid, they could sell chocolate cigarettes, with the pic of a black kid, wearing a naughty smile, right there on the box
How many seconds do you think a candy maker would last if they tried to pull one of these today?(//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%22%3E%3CLINK_TEXT%20text=%22http://www.anos80.net/wp-content/upload%20...%20te-box.jpg%22%3Ehttp://www.anos80.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cigarrinhos-chocolate-box.jpg%3C/LINK_TEXT%3E%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Is this considered offensive in Brazil today?
Brazil is ground zero for snowflakism, PC paranoia and victimism. If you call someone "black" during an argument, you go to jail.
Like I said, the liberal retardation here has gone full circle. Civil war and territory division are coming.
Situation in Brazil here can be surmised easily - half of people here want some sort of communist Africa, while the other half wants a decent country, based on economical models and laws like the ones in the US.
Brazil is around fifty per cent black isn't it?
Is black nationalism/identity as strong a force as it is in the USA?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 08, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
:thumbup:
When I was a teen, I remember trying cigs and thinking how pointless they were
I was older than most when I tried pot, almost 20.
Drugs were always demonized here and in my city, it felt like the USSR sometimes. One of Brazil's biggest steel centers is in my city.
The Japanese built it in the 50's and the reality here used to feel different from the rest of Brazil in the 80's and 90's, thanks to all the dollars they would bring.
But the city was heavily policed. There was a massacre of workers who were trying to take over the steel plant n 1963, part of the communist insurrection that the military coup of 1964 stopped.
So with all the comfort and security compared to the rest of Brazil came a lot of repression. There were anti-drug lectures almost every week in my school.
I think you get the idea. In the 90's things changed and when California made it legal for medical purposes, I started seeing it differently
And when I tried, I knew I'd never be able to leave lady Mary LOL
Crazy story.
I was almost 19 and in the 90s as well lol. Cigs I only did for 4-5 years, pointless I agree. Worse for ya too.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:41:12 PM
Post by: Rancidmilko on May 08, 2018, 11:41:12 PM
Brazil is around fifty per cent black isn't it?
Is black nationalism/identity as strong a force as it is in the USA?
Yes, they like to put it at half and half, but if you do a census, many white skinned mestizos will claim to be white
Blacks
Syncretism of African and Christian religions got mixed here. There was a basic, fundamental difference in how the US and Brazil treated blacks
In the US, they despised and avoided miscegenation, even among the poor.
Over here, it was embraced and considered normal.
Brazil is also a very fertile land, huge territory. People here always lived "the way they want". If things in the semi-arid got too bad, just get a bus and build a shack close to some major city.
Why work formally, study, be a dependable person? Just do some half-assed job here and there to have the basic of the basic and the rest, well...
Raise some chickens in the yard, fish and hunt illegaly, you have bananas and yucca growing in some embankment, there you go.
A 3x3 wooden shack with a tin roof is good enough when you have food and never have to worry about a winter freezing your ass.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 11:49:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2018, 11:49:07 PM
My kid brother married an Italian Argentinian gal. They live in Portugal.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Wazzzup on May 09, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
Post by: Wazzzup on May 09, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 09, 2018, 07:40:51 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 09, 2018, 07:40:51 AM
I was in Rio in 1983 for a week. I sat on Ipanema and watched the beautiful girls go by a few days. Went to sugar loaf mountain and saw the huge Christ statue (it was foggy that day, so hard to see him well) drove by the poor people shacks, and even went to a strip club and met a hooker.Quote from: "Wazzzup"One of the Americans in our hotel got his throat cut cause he went out wearing an expensive necklace. Other than that it was a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Wazzzup on May 09, 2018, 11:52:51 AM
Post by: Wazzzup on May 09, 2018, 11:52:51 AM
It was nobody I knew, and our hotel probably had about 200 people in it. Still it was a warning to be careful where you go and don't wear stuff that attracts thieves.I was in Rio in 1983 for a week. I sat on Ipanema and watched the beautiful girls go by a few days. Went to sugar loaf mountain and saw the huge Christ statue (it was foggy that day, so hard to see him well) drove by the poor people shacks, and even went to a strip club and met a hooker.Quote from: "Wazzzup"One of the Americans in our hotel got his throat cut cause he went out wearing an expensive necklace. Other than that it was a lot of fun.
:shock:
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 09, 2018, 10:59:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 09, 2018, 10:59:09 PM
I was in Rio in 1983 for a week. I sat on Ipanema and watched the beautiful girls go by a few days. Went to sugar loaf mountain and saw the huge Christ statue (it was foggy that day, so hard to see him well) drove by the poor people shacks, and even went to a strip club and met a hooker.Quote from: "Wazzzup"One of the Americans in our hotel got his throat cut cause he went out wearing an expensive necklace. Other than that it was a lot of fun.
:shock:
I hope Rbn shares how he copes with the crime rate in his country.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 12:08:10 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 12:08:10 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 10, 2018, 12:29:29 AM
Post by: Frood on May 10, 2018, 12:29:29 AM
Bricktop is spazzing out about his Freud dude again!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 01:17:54 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 01:17:54 AM
I wonder how you come to that conclusion.
After all, YOU'RE the one following ME around the forum like a wino hoping for a $2 coin.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 10, 2018, 01:20:58 AM
Post by: Frood on May 10, 2018, 01:20:58 AM
Is it your medication time yet?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 01:40:46 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 01:40:46 AM
Please...some variation would be nice.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2018, 07:47:50 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2018, 07:47:50 AM
You should also ask Freud!!Quote from: "Bricktop"
How would he know about coping with crime in Brazil?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 08:17:51 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 08:17:51 AM
Isn't he?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2018, 08:48:17 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 10, 2018, 08:48:17 AM
He's an expert on crime control in areas where gun ownership is prolific.Quote from: "Bricktop"
Isn't he?
He's not even an expert flamer. Not that that is anything to boast about except to the deranged lowlifes at the soon to be extinct TRF.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 10, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
It is stating the stupifyingly obvious to observe that the driving force behind this mentality is a degree of self loathing high on the Weinstein scale.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 08:54:17 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 08:54:17 AM
Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.Quote from: "Renee"
Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.:nea:
I appreciate your effort, but you haven't moved me, Renee...
Improved Cylinder is the choke that I run in the Browning for slugs, which should be optimal for slug usage.
Just admit that a 12 Gauge is a very powerful firearm at closer ranges, with devastating results.
And I'll also state this! If you were worthy of being my partner in an actual African Safari, then yes... I would equip ourselves not only with your beloved .45-70, but with a rifle chambered in .375 Holland & Holland. Why? It's one of the most powerful rounds that are still relatively available no matter where you go!
Now tell me how your beloved .45-70 can even begin to trump .375 H&H. I dare ya!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
You and I know that's not the truth, but I can smell your patriotism...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 12, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
Post by: Renee on May 12, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.Quote from: "Renee"
Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.:nea:
I appreciate your effort, but you haven't moved me, Renee...
Improved Cylinder is the choke that I run in the Browning for slugs, which should be optimal for slug usage.
Just admit that a 12 Gauge is a very powerful firearm at closer ranges, with devastating results.
And I'll also state this! If you were worthy of being my partner in an actual African Safari, then yes... I would equip ourselves not only with your beloved .45-70, but with a rifle chambered in .375 Holland & Holland. Why? It's one of the most powerful rounds that are still relatively available no matter where you go!
Now tell me how your beloved .45-70 can even begin to trump .375 H&H. I dare ya!
Two very different rounds, for 2 very different applications, for 2 very different rifles types...apples and oranges, Mel.
I dont care what you say, because you are wrong......12 gauge slugs do not have the penetration like any .44 cal or similar round. Unless you are using some kind of sabot type slug you are at a disadvantage....That's a fact proven buy ballistics and wound cavity studies....Your opinion is invalid by comparison.
By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 12, 2018, 12:06:12 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 12, 2018, 12:06:12 PM
And I believe you are right, the choke tubes are for shot, not slugs. They are to control the "spread" of the shot, depending on what you are hunting.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.Quote from: "Renee"
Browning says Improved Cylinder is choice for slugs, as do most other shotgun manufacturers... And lead buckshot can be fired through any modern choke. Steel may be a different story, but Browning modern chokes are made for steel also. Come on Renee, get with the program... It's clear to me that you haven't brushed up on shot-gun etiquette for quite some time. No fox hunt for you! You can slum with the bums, while I enjoy tea-time with royalty after the fox hunt, ya bum!
I/C or Cylinder is A-OK for slugs. And of COURSE it won't be mega-accurate at longer ranges! That's not what they were designed for!
Remember I'm talking about close-range defense, and not long-range hunting abilities!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
I just want to applaud your gun knowledge Renee lol.Quote from: "Blazor"
And I believe you are right, the choke tubes are for shot, not slugs. They areto control the "spread" of the shot, depending on what you are hunting.
I'm kinda surprised that our a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious item
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 03:26:54 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 03:26:54 PM
I'm kinda surprised that a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious itemQuote from: "cc"
Don't even fucking try... I've forgotten more than most here will ever know. Renee is the ONLY one here that is even somewhat certified to debate with me...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 04:06:52 PM
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 04:06:52 PM
" somewhat certified "
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Really Lame try to save yourself after getting it dead wrongQuote from: "cc"
" somewhat certified ":laugh: ... she's a major leaguer ... listen and learn sonny
Um no... Nothing I've stated is wrong. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should just probably stay out of gun talk between Renee and I.
In fact, I doubt you even know what shotgun choke is, so don't pretend to be smarter than you actually are...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 04:14:38 PM
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 04:14:38 PM
That's what they are for ... as your superior pointed out to you
Again, listen and learn from the major leaguer
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
You and Renee should both know this before opening your yaps, and calling me 'wrong.'
Now get back to emptying the dishwasher!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:20:39 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 04:20:39 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 05:24:51 PM
Post by: cc on May 12, 2018, 05:24:51 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 12, 2018, 05:54:15 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 12, 2018, 05:54:15 PM
I'm kinda surprised that a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious itemQuote from: "cc"
Renee is the ONLY one here that is even somewhat certified to debate with me...
Not necessarily...just sayin
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:50:08 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:50:08 PM
Not necessarily...just sayinQuote from: "kiebers"
Well, I question the knowledge of some posters.
To be honest, any modern shotgun with modern chokes can throw a slug... Even Full chokes can throw a slug generally without harm, although I wouldn't do it. There's a reason slugs have 'rifling' cast into them... They're not to impart any spin on the slug, as slugs don't spin. They are simply designed to compress even when going through a full choke.
Renee should know this, and should also know that I know enough to know that often Improved Cylinder is usually recommended for slugs.
Renee should also know that .45-70 doesn't really excel at anything in particular... If I truly wanted a large game round, .375 H&H would be the go-to round.
Now prove me wrong! Renee is just stuck in the past, and unwilling to modernize her thought patterns. It's not the old West anymore, Renee! Cowboys aren't casting their .38's over the camp fire anymore!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 12, 2018, 09:51:20 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 12, 2018, 09:51:20 PM
Renee has priors for opening her cavernous yap without having all the facts.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2018, 09:52:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2018, 09:52:27 PM
Mel's worldQuote from: "cc":laugh:
And you and I get to be a small part of it.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:53:11 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 12, 2018, 09:53:11 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 12, 2018, 09:56:10 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 12, 2018, 09:56:10 PM
She has reasons to stay away.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 14, 2018, 03:01:12 AM
Post by: Renee on May 14, 2018, 03:01:12 AM
By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.Quote from: "Renee"
Browning says Improved Cylinder is choice for slugs, as do most other shotgun manufacturers... And lead buckshot can be fired through any modern choke. Steel may be a different story, but Browning modern chokes are made for steel also. Come on Renee, get with the program... It's clear to me that you haven't brushed up on shot-gun etiquette for quite some time. No fox hunt for you! You can slum with the bums, while I enjoy tea-time with royalty after the fox hunt, ya bum!
I/C or Cylinder is A-OK for slugs. And of COURSE it won't be mega-accurate at longer ranges! That's not what they were designed for!
Remember I'm talking about close-range defense, and not long-range hunting abilities!
Okay dumbass. You asked for it....
It's quite clear that you have very little clue as to what you are talking about. You have circle jerked this discussion no end and you have mouthed off like a fool as usual. You have no clue about the sectional density of bullets nor do you understand terminal performance or wound cavity science. Furthermore you like to go off on tangents comparing rounds mpre suitable for hunting at range and rounds more suitable for close quarters encounters, which is irrelevant to the discussion. Also it's obvious that you have no clue as to were your pump gun throws a slug regardless of the diameter choke tube you have in it. Have you ever sighted the damn thing in? And I dont mean punching holes in a cat carrier from 10 feet away.
The 45-70 govt. or better yet, the .450 marlin, are proven close quarters grizzly stoppers. They generally come in a handy package and are hard hitting, large frontal mass bullets with decent sectional density, designed to give adequate penetration to stop a charging bear. As I've said before, your choice of a 12 gauge, rifled, soft, foster style slug is inferior by comparison and only a fool would argue otherwise. But true to form you step right up....
I also find it laughable that you disparage the 45-70 based on its age while extolling the virtues of the .375 Holland and Holland, when any firearms aficionado knows that the 375 H&H is also and old bastard of a cartridge, introduced in 1912 as a tea bagger, cordite based round...
That brings me to the the issue of you carrying a firearm for any kind of self defense against 4 legged or even 2 legged predators.... I dont advise it. You admittedly have never hunted. Other than drowning yourself a large bottle of bottom shelf vodka, you probably have no real experience with life threatening situations. You probably don't understand or can even recognize the value of proper bullet placement. Do you even know the recommended point of impact you should aim for on a charging bear or the lethal logic behind it?...Probably not. You probably dont have the stones to do it anyway.
That is why I'm going to change my POV on this and sincerely recommend pepper spray as a bear repellent. It's fast and easy enough to use, even for a half smoked up alky like you. Furthermore, there is mounting a d very persuasive field evidence suggesting that the outcome of the use of pepper spray on an angry bear has greater success than the use of a firearm of any kind. Especially when said firearm is in the hands of a novice like you.
Furthermore, I hate to be disrespectful and bust your bubble, but let's YOU be serious for once. You aren't going hiking in bear country or any terrain rougher than the local dive bar in Langley...The chances of anyone seeing you and that red face of yours, huffing and puffing your way through the brush, sporting a full pack while humping that 5 dollar Walmart pump gun are slim to none. So let's just cut the bullshit, shall we?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 03:08:56 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 03:08:56 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 14, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Post by: Frood on May 14, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 03:14:48 AM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 03:14:48 AM
That, and she pokes her pug nose into other people's private affairs.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 07:46:02 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 07:46:02 AM
Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..
She learned everything about them.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 11:08:16 AM
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 11:08:16 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 12:36:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 12:36:50 PM
Not to mention the thousands of rounds she has fired in competitions. I doubt anyone here could even come close to matching her expertise/accuracy with a firearm. I couldn't, and I grew up on a range myself. Well except for perhaps one bench target rifle I have...Quote from: "kiebers"
I miss her too. Besides being a huge firearms resource, she's big fun to have because you never know when she'll come outta the woodwork and go bitch on someone. Always entertaining even if it's you.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
Not to mention the thousands of rounds she has fired in competitions. I doubt anyone here could even come close to matching her expertise/accuracy with a firearm. I couldn't, and I grew up on a range myself. Well except for perhaps one bench target rifle I have...Quote from: "kiebers"
I miss her too. Besides being a huge firearms resource, she's big fun to have because you never know when she'll come outta the woodwork and go bitch on someone. Always entertaining even if it's you.
So true. LOL
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 14, 2018, 01:47:48 PM
Post by: Renee on May 14, 2018, 01:47:48 PM
Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..
She learned everything about them.
My dad is also an avid hunter, competition shooter and outdoor sportsman. Even at age 67 he is still out there beginning in early fall, straight through winter. Wild game was a staple on our families dinner table while I was growing up. My dad was also a police firearms instructor for about 5 different municipalities as well. I wouldn't even try and count the number of firearms, gear and firearms accessories he owns or has owned in his lifetime. Unlike some who run their rancid, authoritarian, mealy mouths around here, he believes that personal self defense and preparedness is the best first line when it comes to staying alive in a life threatening situation. He instilled that concept in me and my sibs at a very young age and I'm thankful for it.
I've also hunted since I was a teen and competed in NRA prescison pistol shooting since I was a preteen. I've spent countless hours of range time sending hundreds of thousands of rounds down range competing in and preparing for IDPA competition. I'm an experienced hand loader...I think I have more than a fair grasp of load performance and ballistics.
For many years I was a certified NRA coach but pressures of family life have caused me to let that certification lapse. I have full intention of reviving that certification in the future. I have also been a range officer at one of the local ranges I belong to as well.
I'm a ccw holder and have attended dozens of seminars hosted by police depts, gun clubs and independent legal experts covering the legal responsibilities surrounding the ownership, carry and use of firearms for personal protection. I usually attend at least one seminar a year just to stay current with the law. Unfortunately due to the onerous legal ramifications of concealed carry in my state, I very rarely have a firearm on my person.
If anyone here knows more than me in regard to firearms, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion and impart some knowledge. I welcome it. Firearms and their use are one of my favorite subjects. BUT what I will not engage in is hysterical pointless political arguments extolling the virtues of turning law abiding citizens into criminals through toltalitarian gun control scams. I have nothing but contempt for hoplophobic fools who soak their already overloaded adult diapers with piss or spew foam all over their keyboards, each time a gun related incident is mentioned.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 02:10:33 PM
Post by: kiebers on May 14, 2018, 02:10:33 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..
She learned everything about them.
My dad is also an avid hunter, competition shooter and outdoor sportsman. Even at age 67 he is still out there beginning in early fall, straight through winter. Wild game was a staple on our families dinner table while I was growing up. My dad was also a police firearms instructor for about 5 different municipalities as well. I wouldn't even try and count the number of firearms, gear and firearms accessories he owns or has owned in his lifetime. Unlike some who run their rancid, authoritarian, mealy mouths around here, he believes that personal self defense and preparedness is the best first line when it comes to staying alive in a life threatening situation. He instilled that concept in me and my sibs at a very young age and I'm thankful for it.
I've also hunted since I was a teen and competed in NRA prescison pistol shooting since I was a preteen. I've spent countless hours of range time sending hundreds of thousands of rounds down range competing in and preparing for IDPA competition. I'm an experienced hand loader...I think I have more than a fair grasp of load performance and ballistics.
For many years I was a certified NRA coach but pressures of family life have caused me to let that certification lapse. I have full intention of reviving that certification in the future. I have also been a range officer at one of the local ranges I belong to as well.
I'm a ccw holder and have attended dozens of seminars hosted by police depts, gun clubs and independent legal experts covering the legal responsibilities surrounding the ownership, carry and use of firearms for personal protection. I usually attend at least one seminar a year just to stay current with the law. Unfortunately due to the onerous legal ramifications of concealed carry in my state, I very rarely have a firearm on my person.
If anyone here knows more than me in regard to firearms, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion and impart some knowledge. I welcome it. Firearms and their use are one of my favorite subjects. BUT what I will not engage in is hysterical pointless political arguments extolling the virtues of turning law abiding citizens into criminals through toltalitarian gun control scams. I have nothing but contempt for hoplophobic fools who soak their already overloaded adult diapers with piss or spew foam all over their keyboards, each time a gun related incident is mentioned.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
That was worth reading every single word.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:08:18 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:08:18 PM
I have nothing but contempt for hoplophobic fools who soak their already overloaded adult diapers with piss or spew foam all over their keyboards, each time a gun related incident is mentioned.Quote from: "Renee"
I think she means me.
But I am probably on her ignore list.
Because I have nothing but contempt for people who interfere in other people's personal circumstances.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
I think she means me.
I figured that
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:24:38 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:24:38 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:30:30 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:30:30 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:31:49 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:31:49 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:47:43 PM
Post by: Blazor on May 14, 2018, 07:47:43 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Frood on May 14, 2018, 08:27:47 PM
Post by: Frood on May 14, 2018, 08:27:47 PM
Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.Quote from: "Dinky Dianna"
Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..
She learned everything about them.
My dad is also an avid hunter, competition shooter and outdoor sportsman. Even at age 67 he is still out there beginning in early fall, straight through winter. Wild game was a staple on our families dinner table while I was growing up. My dad was also a police firearms instructor for about 5 different municipalities as well. I wouldn't even try and count the number of firearms, gear and firearms accessories he owns or has owned in his lifetime. Unlike some who run their rancid, authoritarian, mealy mouths around here, he believes that personal self defense and preparedness is the best first line when it comes to staying alive in a life threatening situation. He instilled that concept in me and my sibs at a very young age and I'm thankful for it.
I've also hunted since I was a teen and competed in NRA prescison pistol shooting since I was a preteen. I've spent countless hours of range time sending hundreds of thousands of rounds down range competing in and preparing for IDPA competition. I'm an experienced hand loader...I think I have more than a fair grasp of load performance and ballistics.
For many years I was a certified NRA coach but pressures of family life have caused me to let that certification lapse. I have full intention of reviving that certification in the future. I have also been a range officer at one of the local ranges I belong to as well.
I'm a ccw holder and have attended dozens of seminars hosted by police depts, gun clubs and independent legal experts covering the legal responsibilities surrounding the ownership, carry and use of firearms for personal protection. I usually attend at least one seminar a year just to stay current with the law. Unfortunately due to the onerous legal ramifications of concealed carry in my state, I very rarely have a firearm on my person.
If anyone here knows more than me in regard to firearms, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion and impart some knowledge. I welcome it. Firearms and their use are one of my favorite subjects. BUT what I will not engage in is hysterical pointless political arguments extolling the virtues of turning law abiding citizens into criminals through toltalitarian gun control scams. I have nothing but contempt for hoplophobic fools who soak their already overloaded adult diapers with piss or spew foam all over their keyboards, each time a gun related incident is mentioned.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 08:32:47 PM
Post by: Bricktop on May 14, 2018, 08:32:47 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 14, 2018, 10:31:55 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 14, 2018, 10:31:55 PM
What you post are more opinions than pure facts. However, since you've taken the time, I shall respond.
It is purely your own opinion that a .45-70 is a superior round than a 12 Gauge slug at close range defense against larger game. The FACT is that 12 Gauge slug is at the very least just as effective, if not more so in this scenario. Don't take my word for it... Find out what many Alaskan and BC guides carry as a defense firearm. I'll give you one guess as to what it is, and it starts with a "12," just so ya know.
And don't give me no bullshit about perfect "shot placement" required... I have already explained that this is more than likely not possible when you only have a few seconds left to live. Center mass is often the best that could be hoped for in the scenario. You think you'll have time to get off a perfect spinal shot? Maybe you get lucky... I don't know.
And just because I do not hunt, has no bearing on how a self-defense issue can be handled. I can assure you I have seen people that do not hunt, that could shoot blindfolded better than you or I. Practice is the key, and this doesn't include patiently taking down a grazing Bambi @ 100 yards. That is something completely different. It's like telling me that SWAT Team members are just no good, unless they hunt. That's not how it works.
And don't you even DARE question my ability to walk through the woods... Remember, I am the one with a great physical physique! You, on the other hand, well? Enough said about that!
Now while I appreciate your contributions, I would just urge you to perhaps focus a little bit more on facts, as opposed to your opinions and beliefs, which are clearly not always rooted in facts.
Now, I know you like your .45-70, but I'm not convinced it's the 'do all' that you seem to claim it to be, nor am I convinced that everything you post is pure fact either. Then again, opinions are just like assholes...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 14, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 14, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
Not a very big guy, but could still do some damage! I guess this is how they hoist 'em down!
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 08:17:38 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 08:17:38 AM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 09:00:09 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 09:00:09 AM
This isn't too far from where I live. I guess this stupid guy got "stuck in a tree?" I didn't even think that was possible! I'm guessing they just wanted to get it before it took off, since you can't have 'em roaming around schools!Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Not a very big guy, but could still do some damage! I guess this is how they hoist 'em down!:laugh: (//%3C/s%3E%3CURL%20url=%22http://i63.tinypic.com/2i8c8dd.png%22%3Ehttp://i63.tinypic.com/2i8c8dd.png%3C/URL%3E%3Ce%3E)
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 15, 2018, 12:21:56 PM
Post by: Renee on May 15, 2018, 12:21:56 PM
Renee, Renee, Renee...Quote from: "Angry White Male"
What you post are more opinions than pure facts. However, since you've taken the time, I shall respond.
It is purely your own opinion that a .45-70 is a superior round than a 12 Gauge slug at close range defense against larger game. The FACT is that 12 Gauge slug is at the very least just as effective, if not more so in this scenario. Don't take my word for it... Find out what many Alaskan and BC guides carry as a defense firearm. I'll give you one guess as to what it is, and it starts with a "12," just so ya know.
First off just let me say that there is a big difference between Alaskan and BC guides and you....It's a little something called "expierence". They know what to do in a dangerous situation and how to do it properly and still more than a few have been mauled or killed. And if you do the research you will see that they are pretty much split on the 12ga and a heavy .44 or better rifle caliber for close bear encounters. Those that prefer a heavy rifle do so partly because they know that the sectional density of a rifle bullet needs to be at least .20 for good penetration while retaining mass and energy on a heavily muscled animal like a grizzly. A 12ga slug has only mass. It's sectional density is on average .15 which on paper is adequate for thin skinned game such as deer but not for a big tough bear. It also sheds energy faster than you can empty a 40oz bottle of Colt 45. That is ballistic and scientific fact and not opinion. Just because some local yokel, forest ranger says a 12ga slug is the ultimate in bear stopping equipment, it doesnt mean I would stake my life on it, you do what you want.
Unless you have seen a bear skinned and field dressed, you really have no clue as to how tough of a hide, muscle and bone those animals have.
don't give me no bullshit about perfect "shot placement" required... I have already explained that this is more than likely not possible when you only have a few seconds left to live. Center mass is often the best that could be hoped for in the scenario. You think you'll have time to get off a perfect spinal shot? Maybe you get lucky... I don't know.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Mel, I'm I'm not talking about the "perfect shot", dumbass. I'm talking about the common wisdom and mechanics behind giving yourself the best chance of survival. When getting charged by a bear try to aim for the point of impact where the snout should be. Bears run with a loping gate, meaning that their front end rises and falls with each stride. In a frontal charge, theoretically it gives the best chance of hitting something vital. As the bear's front end rises the shot will go low and hit the chest. As the bears front end comes down the shot will go high and strike either the top of the head or the shoulders and spine, that is if you keep your cool and do everything right. Most people who fire on a charging animal without at least having a clue as to what to do, will panic and fuck up, with catastrophic results. Do you think that professional guides or hunters just poke and hope?...
That brings me back to "experience". Experience with killing an animal up close and personal and experience with "kill or be killed" situations....which you and most of the population have niether of.
just because I do not hunt, has no bearing on how a self-defense issue can be handled. I can assure you I have seen people that do not hunt, that could shoot blindfolded better than you or I. Practice is the key, and this doesn't include patiently taking down a grazing Bambi @ 100 yards. That is something completely different. It's like telling me that SWAT Team members are just no good, unless they hunt. That's not how it works.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Yes practice is important and please forgive me...I forgot...you are the big pet cat shooter....So how many charging bears have you practiced on...do you do it in your living room?...Can we come over and watch?
don't you even DARE question my ability to walk through the woods... Remember, I am the one with a great physical physique! You, on the other hand, well? Enough said about that!Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Yeah, that is enough said about that...You and and a few other thick skulled morons would like to assume that I am some fat lazy slob simply because from time to time, I have jokingly make disparaging remarks about my appearance. Well I guess that's the downside of not being a self-absorbed, delusional, alcoholic, dimbulb...
And let's be real..the only way you are ever going into the woods is if you get wind of some sneaky indian hiding his or her stash of stolen Bud Lite out in the frickin leaves.
Now while I appreciate your contributions, I would just urge you to perhaps focus a little bit more on facts, as opposed to your opinions and beliefs, which are clearly not always rooted in facts.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Now, I know you like your .45-70, but I'm not convinced it's the 'do all' that you seem to claim it to be, nor am I convinced that everything you post is pure fact either. Then again, opinions are just like assholes...
MEL,...everything I've discussed here is rooted in fact. So I guess my assertions regarding sectional density and how it affects terminal bullet performance is straight out of my ass...
What you are missing in your rush to assume that a 12ga is good angry bear medicine, is the fact that there are at least some better options out there. Now I understand your reluctance to invest in another firearm that will probably just sit in your closet and gather dust. I on the other hand will usually jump at any excuse to buy a new gun, even if I have a limited use for it. I do the same with cameras and jewelry so I guess that's my thing. Anyway, have fun hiking...dont forget to post lots of pics of all that pristine Canadian wildeness you will be in walking through.
Oh and Mel, don't worry, any bear will smell you coming from at least 5 miles away and unless they have a craving for pickled liver.....they will leave you the fuck alone...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 12:43:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 12:43:42 PM
By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.Quote from: "Renee"
Browning says Improved Cylinder is choice for slugs, as do most other shotgun manufacturers... And lead buckshot can be fired through any modern choke. Steel may be a different story, but Browning modern chokes are made for steel also. Come on Renee, get with the program... It's clear to me that you haven't brushed up on shot-gun etiquette for quite some time. No fox hunt for you! You can slum with the bums, while I enjoy tea-time with royalty after the fox hunt, ya bum!
I/C or Cylinder is A-OK for slugs. And of COURSE it won't be mega-accurate at longer ranges! That's not what they were designed for!
Remember I'm talking about close-range defense, and not long-range hunting abilities!
Okay dumbass. You asked for it....:laugh3:
It's quite clear that you have very little clue as to what you are talking about. You have circle jerked this discussion no end and you have mouthed off like a fool as usual. You have no clue about the sectional density of bullets nor do you understand terminal performance or wound cavity science. Furthermore you like to go off on tangents comparing rounds mpre suitable for hunting at range and rounds more suitable for close quarters encounters, which is irrelevant to the discussion. Also it's obvious that you have no clue as to were your pump gun throws a slug regardless of the diameter choke tube you have in it. Have you ever sighted the damn thing in? And I dont mean punching holes in a cat carrier from 10 feet away.
The 45-70 govt. or better yet, the .450 marlin, are proven close quarters grizzly stoppers. They generally come in a handy package and are hard hitting, large frontal mass bullets with decent sectional density, designed to give adequate penetration to stop a charging bear. As I've said before, your choice of a 12 gauge, rifled, soft, foster style slug is inferior by comparison and only a fool would argue otherwise. But true to form you step right up....:laugh3:
I also find it laughable that you disparage the 45-70 based on its age while extolling the virtues of the .375 Holland and Holland, when any firearms aficionado knows that the 375 H&H is also and old bastard of a cartridge, introduced in 1912 as a tea bagger, cordite based round...:laugh3: Your ignorance as it pretains to the subject is showing once again. While a medium sized belted mag like the 375 H&H is an excellent hunting round for dangerous game, it generally does not come in a rifle that lends itself to close encounters, unless you are talking a very, very expensive SxS double rifle. It is also outclassed by newer rounds such as the .375 Ackly improved, both the .300 and .338 Weatherby mag, .300 Rem. Ultra mag, or even the venerable 416 rigby along with it's nasty, barrel eating, Lapua offspring. I'm not even going to get into the fact that in an emergency bear encounter, a neophyte like you would probably fumble fuck a heavy recoiling bolt action chambered in 375 H&H or the like, and end up on the bears dinner table.
That brings me to the the issue of you carrying a firearm for any kind of self defense against 4 legged or even 2 legged predators.... I dont advise it. You admittedly have never hunted. Other than drowning yourself a large bottle of bottom shelf vodka, you probably have no real experience with life threatening situations. You probably don't understand or can even recognize the value of proper bullet placement. Do you even know the recommended point of impact you should aim for on a charging bear or the lethal logic behind it?...Probably not. You probably dont have the stones to do it anyway.
That is why I'm going to change my POV on this and sincerely recommend pepper spray as a bear repellent. It's fast and easy enough to use, even for a half smoked up alky like you. Furthermore, there is mounting a d very persuasive field evidence suggesting that the outcome of the use of pepper spray on an angry bear has greater success than the use of a firearm of any kind. Especially when said firearm is in the hands of a novice like you.
Furthermore, I hate to be disrespectful and bust your bubble, but let's YOU be serious for once. You aren't going hiking in bear country or any terrain rougher than the local dive bar in Langley...The chances of anyone seeing you and that red face of yours, huffing and puffing your way through the brush, sporting a full pack while humping that 5 dollar Walmart pump gun are slim to none. So let's just cut the bullshit, shall we?
I know more about guns than you Renee.
Seriously though, this is impressive.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 16, 2018, 09:03:07 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 16, 2018, 09:03:07 PM
And if you do the research you will see that they are pretty much split on the 12ga and a heavy .44 or better rifle caliber for close bear encounters.Quote from: "Renee"
The FIRST thing you have posted that is rooted in fact. Thank you for at least acknowledging this FACT, instead of shitting up the discussion with how much you feel the 12 Gauge is utterly useless for anything, as well as trying to be funny (even though you're not) with put-downs that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
I have done my homework, which is why it has taken you SEVEN FUCKING PAGES to state what I already knew on the very first page.
And don't assume I'm new to gun ownership. I have owned a couple dozen shotguns, rifles, pistols and revolvers over the last almost 20 years or so now, and have shot the snot out of them all... and these are just the ones I've personally owned.
Don't assume because I do not hunt, that I cannot shoot. I could easily drop a deer if I wanted to, if that would make me a "qualified" marksman, but as such it is something that I do not desire to do. Not that I have a problem with hunting, it's just something that does not really appeal to me personally. I pass no judgement on those that do.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 01:12:43 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 01:12:43 AM
:ohmy:
The bears wander around all over here. Problem bears are shot all the time.
Renee may have a misconception as to just how close we live here to bears. Not that you'd see that many in the city, but they don't live far off, that's for sure...
When the majority of people that I've known growing up here, have chosen a 12 Gauge slug as their primary weapon of defense, I question other 'offerings"...
Renee has finally admitted that 'around' 50% of true back country peoples rely on this round here, and in Alaska.
50%.
Renee just found this out, and is now going to try to sling some cute insults my way, because she 'knows best'...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 02:13:07 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 02:13:07 AM
People that actively populate Grizzly country.
Are you going to make some more jokes, or pretend to be smarter than you actually are?
I understand that your fan-base here, while they are All-American and as such like guns...
You have run into a 'foreigner' that probably knows guns better than your fans or your next door neighbour does.
When I have to explain chokes to you, I know I'm in trouble.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 10:42:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 10:42:49 AM
I've had a few discussions with Renee over various aspects of the shooting sports, and while I could make the sort of lame effort I'm seeing here to assert some kind of dominant position over her, I have better things to do.
As for you, I have nothing to offer beyond stating that I'm at least your equal in firearms knowledge, understanding and experience.
And I'm not gonna go back and re-read the thread, but IIRC neither one of you actually explained shotgun chokes in a way that satisfied my own effete standards for good technical writing. Thus, I personally reject any effort to extend the on-topic lifespan of this thread any further. Carry on if you wish, but I've probably left the building.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 11:57:16 AM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 11:57:16 AM
You've contributed nothing in the first place!
And if shotgun chokes weren't 'explained to you well enough,' just ask whatever question you have about them.
I can assure you Renee isn't the only one here that can answer simple questions like this...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 02:41:59 PM
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 02:41:59 PM
And if you do the research you will see that they are pretty much split on the 12ga and a heavy .44 or better rifle caliber for close bear encounters.Quote from: "Renee"
The FIRST thing you have posted that is rooted in fact. Thank you for at least acknowledging this FACT, instead of shitting up the discussion with how much you feel the 12 Gauge is utterly useless for anything, as well as trying to be funny (even though you're not) with put-downs that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
I have done my homework, which is why it has taken you SEVEN FUCKING PAGES to state what I already knew on the very first page.
And don't assume I'm new to gun ownership. I have owned a couple dozen shotguns, rifles, pistols and revolvers over the last almost 20 years or so now, and have shot the snot out of them all... and these are just the ones I've personally owned.
Don't assume because I do not hunt, that I cannot shoot. I could easily drop a deer if I wanted to, if that would make me a "qualified" marksman, but as such it is something that I do not desire to do. Not that I have a problem with hunting, it's just something that does not really appeal to me personally. I pass no judgement on those that do.
Again Mel, you are missing the point. I don't know why I should expect you to get it, I guess I'm just an optimist at heart....But you go ahead and do what you want and even if you're wrong, what's the worst that can happen?....
But as I previously stated, you aren't going hiking. You are just posting shit for the sake of posting for attention;.. just like most of the utter nonsense you fling around here. I guess this is what you call "adding quality" to the forum....threads that are complete bullshit along with your nonsensical drunken musings on life....
As for your expeirence...a lot of people own guns....A lot of people shoot guns....it doesnt necessarily mean they know what they are doing although most of them think they do....No matter, I bow to your expeirence....But just as a reminder, who was it that taught you why the sights on your 66 are regulated for 25 yards from the factory? A knowledgeable and experienced gun owner would have known this without me having to tell them.
BTW, isn't it about time that you grace this place with another alcohol inflamed melt down and declared a permanent exit...I think you're about a week overdue...
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 02:43:17 PM
Post by: Angry White Male on May 17, 2018, 02:43:17 PM
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 03:56:57 PM
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 03:56:57 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I have a 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pellets that have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:04:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:04:47 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:17:32 PM
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:17:32 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Heating....fuel for the pellet stove.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:18:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:18:47 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Heating....fuel for the pellet stove.
Is each pellet really small?
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:34:30 PM
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:34:30 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Heating....fuel for the pellet stove.
Is each pellet really small?
Yes but they vary in size depending on brand and material.
They look almost like rabbit food pellets.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:36:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2018, 04:36:26 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Heating....fuel for the pellet stove.
Is each pellet really small?
Yes but they vary in size depending on brand and material.
They look almost like rabbit food pellets.
I've never seen or even heard of that..
All wood stoves I've seen burn regular logs.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:51:37 PM
Post by: Renee on May 17, 2018, 04:51:37 PM
Unlike you, Renee, I am physically capable of wandering around the woods. Believe it or not, I can do such things on a whim.Quote from: "Angry White Male"
Since you are so "physically capable"...maybe I'll call you the next time I havea 1/2 ton of 40lb bags of wood pelletsthat have to be unloaded from my truck. Or maybe the next time I have a couple of cords of wood to stack.
I'll give you 10 bucks, a bus ticket, and a six of PBR,....:laugh:
What do you use them for Renee?
Heating....fuel for the pellet stove.
Is each pellet really small?
Yes but they vary in size depending on brand and material.
They look almost like rabbit food pellets.
I've never seen or even heard of that..
All wood stoves I've seen burn regular logs.
They look very similar to regular wood stoves, so you may have seen one without knowing it.
They usually have a smaller flue and a lid on top or a feeder on the side where the pellets are loaded. They are usually connected to a wall mounted thermostat so they only fire when needed. Once you load the auger with pellets, set the thermostat, they are fully automated.
Title: Re: Should I pack this in bear country?
Post by: Odinson on May 22, 2018, 05:49:39 PM
Post by: Odinson on May 22, 2018, 05:49:39 PM