Wexit

[Anonymous]

I like this autonomous stand of Kenney's. I hope Scott Moe follows suit.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-fair-deal-panel-1.5354642">https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.5354642">https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-fair-deal-panel-1.5354642

Alberta addresses separatist sentiment by studying measures that would give province more autonomy



Alberta's premier is addressing western alienation by taking a page out of Quebec's handbook and looking at ways to give the province more autonomy.



Alberta will open offices in other provinces, introduce an act to give Albertans the power to petition for referendums and create a panel to look at giving the province further independence, like pulling out of the Federal-Provincial Tax Collection Agreement or establishing a provincial police force.



Premier Jason Kenney made the sweeping announcement Saturday during a keynote address to close the Manning Conference in Red Deer, Alta., an event held by the Manning Centre, a Calgary-based right-wing think-tank.



"Albertans have been working for Ottawa for too long. It's time for Ottawa to start working for us ... they must stop taking us for granted," Kenney said.



"They need to understand they're killing the golden goose. They have both fists wrapped around the throat of that goose."



Reform Party founder Preston Manning will sit on the panel, along with Stephen Lougheed, son of late former premier Peter Lougheed, former MLA Donna Kennedy-Glans and three current MLAs, among others.



Kenney said he wants to acknowledge that some Western Canadians no longer feel at home in their own country, and suggested "Laurentian elites" have both benefited from Alberta's wealth and abandoned the province in its time of need.



"How perverse is it to blame the victim in a sense when we have been doing so much to share our wealth with the rest of the country?" he asked.



But he said separation is not the answer, even though he views Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's minority government as "a danger" to the federation.

[Anonymous]

Some measures the new Fair Deal Panel will study include:



Establishing a provincial revenue agency by ending Alberta's Federal-Provincial Tax Collection Agreement.

Withdrawing from the Canada Pension Plan and establishing a provincial plan.

Ending the province's relationship with the RCMP and creating a provincial police force.

Opting out of federal cost-sharing programs.

Seeking an exchange of tax points for federal cash transfer.

Establishing a formal provincial constitution.

Appointing a Chief Firearms Office for the province.

"We must maintain leverage over the federal government over the next two years to ensure completion of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion," Kenney said. "We must use wisdom to carefully stage each element of this fight for fairness."



Reform Party founder Preston Manning said that yearning for autonomy is one thing Quebec and the west have in common.



"Both want a more decentralized federation for somewhat different reasons. Quebec more for linguistic, cultural and social reasons, the west for economic reasons," he said.



The panel will consult with experts and hold town halls between Nov. 16 and Jan. 30, before completing a report to government by March 31, the release said. The panel's budget is set at $650,000.



If the panel finds support for those measures, Kenney said, the next move would be to hold referendums before moving forward — but that provision was not mentioned in his mandate letter to the panellists.



Alberta will also be opening offices in Ottawa, Quebec and B.C. to "defend the province's interests."

[Anonymous]

Similarities to 'firewall letter'

Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.



That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.



"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.



"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."



Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.

[Gaon]

I can't believe what is happening in this country.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe what is happening in this country.

Believe it brother. This is long overdue.

[Anonymous]

Similarities to 'firewall letter'

Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.



That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.



"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.



"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."



Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.

Albertans contribute more to CPP per capita than any other province. If Alberta withdraws from CPP to start their own pension plan(it would be superior to CPP), they federal program would become insolvent.

[Anonymous]

Similarities to 'firewall letter'

Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.



That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.



"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.



"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."



Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.

Albertans contribute more to CPP per capita than any other province. If Alberta withdraws from CPP to start their own pension plan(it would be superior to CPP), they federal program would become insolvent.

That is Ottawa's problem, not the West's. They cannot expect the prairie provinces to put up with theft and abuse indefinitely.

[Anonymous]

Similarities to 'firewall letter'

Kenney's speech shared some similarities with the famous letter that kicked off the Alberta Agenda in 2001 and called for "firewalls" to be built around the province.



That open letter, signed by future prime minister Stephen Harper among others and addressed to then-premier Ralph Klein, also called for a provincial police force and withdrawal from the Canada Pension Plan.



"Klein rejected it. He refused to move forward on it. Kenney is throwing the full weight of the government behind it. That's the difference between 2001 and today," Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt said.



"The similarity is it's both in the aftermath of the Conservatives losing an election. And so you wonder, would any of this come about if there was a Conservative government? If you're pursuing an autonomous strategy, which this is within Canada, it shouldn't be dependent on who is in Ottawa."



Bratt said the speech was the most significant one Kenney has made as premier.

wow

[Thiel]

I can't believe what is happening in this country.

It is overdue my friend.

[Anonymous]

Use pension plan as warning



Equalization isn't the only financial arrangement in this country that is stacked against Alberta, the Canada Pension Plan is, too.



If Alberta withdrew from the CPP, not only could Alberta pay their own retirees more for lower contributions, the rest of the country would finally get a practical lesson in why it needs Alberta around — and why it should find a fairer deal to keep that province in Confederation. This week, Premier Jason Kenney said there is a "compelling case" for Alberta to at least look at going it alone on pensions, the way Quebec has done for five decades.



He intends to put the question of a separate APP in front of the panel of distinguished Albertans he will soon appoint to offer recommendations on how Alberta should deal with the seemingly disinterested Trudeau government in Ottawa.



It is well known in that province that [size=150]Albertans contribute upwards of $20 billion more a year to Confederation than they receive back in benefits. [/size]



Of course, a country isn't just a ledger sheet or a zero-sum calculation. They don't have to receive back as much as thet put in. But neither should the provinces who benefit most from their generous contributions smugly deny their ability to develop their biggest industries and maintain their way of life.



Of course we're talking about Quebec. Quebec is the primary beneficiary of Alberta's largesse. Despite the fact that it now has per capita wealth very close to the national average, the federal Liberals have increased Quebec's equalization every year because it benefits them politically to do so. And even though the bulk of Quebec's $13 billion or $14 billion grant each year comes from Alberta, no other province has been as hostile to Alberta pipelines or as moralistic about the environmental consequences of developing the oilsands. (OK, B.C. has been nearly as bad, but at least it isn't as heavily dependent on our money.) The CPP is nearly as bad a deal for Alberta as equalization, though. Last year, [size=150]Albertans contributed 16.5 per cent of all premiums collected by the CPP. However, Alberta is just 11.6 per cent of the national population[/size]. Worse yet, their seniors received just 10.6 per cent of the payments made. That's a gap of 56 per cent. According to Vancouver's Fraser Institute, over the past decade [size=150]Albertans have chipped in $27 billion more than they have taken out of CPP.[/size] Unlike equalization, this gap isn't the result of some political manipulation designed to keep Liberal-voting regions of the country happy. It's because was have the youngest population in the country and the highest incomes. We simply have more people making solid livings than we have older citizens receiving payments. Still, the gap is what gives us leverage. If we took our premiums and set up our own public pension, Ottawa would either have to raise CPP contributions substantially or lower benefits significantly in the rest of Canada. Maybe that's the kind of warning shot we should fire across Ottawa's bow to startle them out of their complacency — even hostility — towards Alberta.

[Anonymous]

Use pension plan as warning



Equalization isn't the only financial arrangement in this country that is stacked against Alberta, the Canada Pension Plan is, too.



If Alberta withdrew from the CPP, not only could Alberta pay their own retirees more for lower contributions, the rest of the country would finally get a practical lesson in why it needs Alberta around — and why it should find a fairer deal to keep that province in Confederation. This week, Premier Jason Kenney said there is a "compelling case" for Alberta to at least look at going it alone on pensions, the way Quebec has done for five decades.



He intends to put the question of a separate APP in front of the panel of distinguished Albertans he will soon appoint to offer recommendations on how Alberta should deal with the seemingly disinterested Trudeau government in Ottawa.



It is well known in that province that [size=150]Albertans contribute upwards of $20 billion more a year to Confederation than they receive back in benefits. [/size]



Of course, a country isn't just a ledger sheet or a zero-sum calculation. They don't have to receive back as much as thet put in. But neither should the provinces who benefit most from their generous contributions smugly deny their ability to develop their biggest industries and maintain their way of life.



Of course we're talking about Quebec. Quebec is the primary beneficiary of Alberta's largesse. Despite the fact that it now has per capita wealth very close to the national average, the federal Liberals have increased Quebec's equalization every year because it benefits them politically to do so. And even though the bulk of Quebec's $13 billion or $14 billion grant each year comes from Alberta, no other province has been as hostile to Alberta pipelines or as moralistic about the environmental consequences of developing the oilsands. (OK, B.C. has been nearly as bad, but at least it isn't as heavily dependent on our money.) The CPP is nearly as bad a deal for Alberta as equalization, though. Last year, [size=150]Albertans contributed 16.5 per cent of all premiums collected by the CPP. However, Alberta is just 11.6 per cent of the national population[/size]. Worse yet, their seniors received just 10.6 per cent of the payments made. That's a gap of 56 per cent. According to Vancouver's Fraser Institute, over the past decade [size=150]Albertans have chipped in $27 billion more than they have taken out of CPP.[/size] Unlike equalization, this gap isn't the result of some political manipulation designed to keep Liberal-voting regions of the country happy. It's because was have the youngest population in the country and the highest incomes. We simply have more people making solid livings than we have older citizens receiving payments. Still, the gap is what gives us leverage. If we took our premiums and set up our own public pension, Ottawa would either have to raise CPP contributions substantially or lower benefits significantly in the rest of Canada. Maybe that's the kind of warning shot we should fire across Ottawa's bow to startle them out of their complacency — even hostility — towards Alberta.

This will grab Justine by his pussy.

[Anonymous]

How would a provincial pension plan affect people's pensions who've paid into CPP their entire working lives?

[Anonymous]

How would a provincial pension plan affect people's pensions who've paid into CPP their entire working lives?

Former Alberta NDP premier Rachel Notley accused Jason Kenney of putting Albertans pensions at risk. This means the NDP leader has more faith in Ottawa politicians and bureaucrats to manage our retirement savings. How naïve.)



Last year, Albertans contributed 16.5 per cent of all premiums collected by the CPP. However, our seniors received just 10.6 per cent of the benefits.



Naturally, some questions arise whenever anyone floats the possibility of transferring billions of public dollars from one fund manager to another.Quebec has never been part of CPP, so there's no precedent for what has been proposed by Kenney.



My best guess is that Alberta funds in CPP would be transferred to a provincial crown corporation that also manages their Heritage Fund.  I would imagine the transfer of benefits would be gradual with current Alberta recipients continuing in CPP.



As for benefits, Alberta's pension plan would be superior for pensioners than CPP.

[Anonymous]

Our premier is getting pissed off with Justine's bullshit.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6k2kKDgxX4&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1NJYpT1427fcjYcJSPsghipqwrfIoX74ZtMT63c2tm7-rVOK6Fefx8f2U">

[Anonymous]

CPP would be fucked without Alberta.



https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/alberta-contributes-much-more-to-canada-pension-plan-than-its-retirees-take-out-study?fbclid=IwAR1ochBEEp0y16JRiyinb1da0gNEgPGlg3KVJEpzJw4Ob_t97ZzJTQLcrQc">https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/al ... ZzJTQLcrQc">https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/alberta-contributes-much-more-to-canada-pension-plan-than-its-retirees-take-out-study?fbclid=IwAR1ochBEEp0y16JRiyinb1da0gNEgPGlg3KVJEpzJw4Ob_t97ZzJTQLcrQc

In 2017, 16.5 per cent of all CPP contributions came from Alberta workers, while just 10.6 per cent of CPP expenditures made their way back to the province. The difference between what was paid in and paid out was $2.9 billion in 2017, the most recent year for which data are available. (Alberta paid in $8.1 billion and received $5.2 billion.) Between 2008 and 2017, Albertans have contributed $27.9 billion more to CPP than retirees in the province have received back.



Were Alberta to drop out of the CPP,  other provinces would have to pick up the slack by raising individual contribution rates. Were the province to withdraw, Albertans could pay as low as 5.85 per cent into an Alberta pension plan, while the rest of the country would need to up their contributions from 9.9 per cent (the 2017 contribution rate) to 10.6 per cent, the study says. The federal government already raised the contribution rate (shared equally by employers and employees) to 10.2 per cent in January, and plan to increase it to 11.9 per cent by 2023.