Impossible to even comprehend these numbers....

[Renee]

Why not a second job?

Why not a life? Why not a livable wage when profits are at record highs? What happened to the American Dream?



It's not much of a problem in most developed nations.

If it was up to people like you everyone would be being paid $20 dollars an hour for doing $8 dollar and hour work.

Nah, minimum wage should be at least what it was back in 1968. We're seeing what happens when Americans can't make a decent living.

I got news for you; Americans couldn't make a decent living on min. wage in 68 either. That's why anyone with a brain moved up and out of their "starter" job and did their best to build a real career.

[Romero]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

[Anonymous]

This is a difficult problem, I agree with Romero, but I understand what Renee and Shen Li are saying too..



Reading this thread makes me think of the years I worked as a waitress in a Chinese restaurant..



I was paid minimum wage, but I did ok on weekends with my tips..



I felt sorry for the owners of the restaurant because I know they wanted to pay me more..



But they barely made ends meet themselves..



Minimum wage is not enough to live on anywhere I think..



On the other hand, small business owners are struggling themselves..



Truthfully I cannot see employee pay in the hospitality industry rising very much.

[Anonymous]

^^There is nothing difficult about this. Grow the fucking economy, create good jobs and people will leave dead end retail ones. Do that and you'll be just like Alberta where small business owners have to sponsor Filipinos to do the jobs Albertans won't do. ;)

[Obvious Li]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

one of the "unintended consequences" of the new progressive liberal education...if you graduate and are illiterate and can't speak or read basic english i suggest a minimum wage job is about all you can expect in this world........the system is broken, and has been for some time...when the people have had enough and rise up it will change....until such time it will continue.......funny how you mention 1968 wages.....it seems back then that people  managed to have a pretty good life when govt. didn't control every aspect of daily life...go figure

[Anonymous]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

one of the "unintended consequences" of the new progressive liberal education...if you graduate and are illiterate and can't speak or read basic english i suggest a minimum wage job is about all you can expect in this world........the system is broken, and has been for some time...when the people have had enough and rise up it will change....until such time it will continue.......funny how you mention 1968 wages.....it seems back then that people  managed to have a pretty good life when govt. didn't control every aspect of daily life...go figure

If you graduate with a useless BA minimum wage is more than you are worth.

[Renee]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

I already stated a couple of pages ago that the US needs to find a way to create more manufacturing jobs in the US that pay $12 or $15 or more an hour. But one of the big problems we face in doing that is the liberal politician's best friend, "Big Labor". As soon as the US tries to grow any kind of manufacturing labor force, Unions do their best to horn in on a piece of the action and by doing so drive across the board costs thru the roof. In past decades they did it with the auto and steel industries and almost all manufacturing industries. Now they are glomming onto the retail industry because it is the last big piece of the pie. The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

 

Liberal progressive politicians and their drooling low info followers don't what to hear that because it is a threat to their existence. Like you they would rather raise the minimum wage to unrealistic levels so that the burden is dumped onto the backs of the small business owner. With you people it's all about passing the buck and fucking someone else so that you can go home at night and feel good about yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

I already stated a couple of pages ago that the US needs to find a way to create more manufacturing jobs in the US that pay $12 or $15 or more an hour. But one of the big problems we face in doing that is the liberal politician's best friend, "Big Labor". As soon as the US tries to grow any kind of manufacturing labor force, Unions do their best to horn in on a piece of the action and by doing so drive across the board costs thru the roof. In past decades they did it with the auto and steel industries and almost all manufacturing industries. Now they are glomming onto the retail industry because it is the last big piece of the pie. The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

 

Liberal progressive politicians and their drooling low info followers don't what to hear that because it is a threat to their existence. Like you they would rather raise the minimum wage to unrealistic levels so that the burden is dumped onto the backs of the small business owner. With you people it's all about passing the buck and fucking someone else so that you can go home at night and feel good about yourselves.

Hmmm, I don't know Renee. I agree that big labour is a corrupt behemoth that has it's fatcat leaders back and not the paid membership. However, do people in first world nations really want to work in steel and auto plants? I think if the USA started bringing home a lot of the factories that drifted overseas they would be manned by foreigners on temporary visas. Just my 2 cents.

[Renee]

Two-thirds of Americans on minimum wage are adults, and one-third of Americans on minimum wage are adults with at least one child. There just aren't enough decent jobs. Thanks, outsourcing!



Can't blame the average American for not moving on up when super rich companies like Apple are using slave labour in China. This is what workers have to compete with nowadays.



It's completely unfair to pay people much less than what people were paid decades ago. I wonder how awesome the American Dream is going to be when minimum wage is still $7.25/hour twenty years from now.

I already stated a couple of pages ago that the US needs to find a way to create more manufacturing jobs in the US that pay $12 or $15 or more an hour. But one of the big problems we face in doing that is the liberal politician's best friend, "Big Labor". As soon as the US tries to grow any kind of manufacturing labor force, Unions do their best to horn in on a piece of the action and by doing so drive across the board costs thru the roof. In past decades they did it with the auto and steel industries and almost all manufacturing industries. Now they are glomming onto the retail industry because it is the last big piece of the pie. The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

 

Liberal progressive politicians and their drooling low info followers don't what to hear that because it is a threat to their existence. Like you they would rather raise the minimum wage to unrealistic levels so that the burden is dumped onto the backs of the small business owner. With you people it's all about passing the buck and fucking someone else so that you can go home at night and feel good about yourselves.

Hmmm, I don't know Renee. I agree that big labour is a corrupt behemoth that has it's fatcat leaders back and not the paid membership. However, do people in first world nations really want to work in steel and auto plants? I think if the USA started bring home a lot of the factories that drifted overseas they would be manned by foreigners on temporary visas. Just my 2 cents.

Right now I think a lot of people in the US will work anywhere given the opportunity for a halfway decent wage. Youth unemployment is thru the roof and unskilled labor is reduced to retail and fast food jobs that aren't worth more than 8 bucks an hour. Providing factory positions for $12 or $15 dollars and hour to start and add in some basic benefits, would look pretty good to those that need to put food on the table right now. Not only that we have a shitload of returning service men and women who need jobs. I'm pretty sure most of them would take a manufacting job that paid okay.

[Romero]

The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

Union membership has dropped dramatically and regulations have been relaxed. So where's all the good that's supposed to have happened?



You may want to notice that things have gotten worse with fewer unions and regulations. Wages are down, the middle class is disappearing, there are more in poverty...



You're arguing for more of it.

[Anonymous]

The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

Union membership has dropped dramatically and regulations have been relaxed. So where's all the good that's supposed to have happened?



You may want to notice that things have gotten worse with fewer unions and regulations. Wages are down, the middle class is disappearing, there are more in poverty...



You're arguing for more of it.

You mean they do not want to return because they would have to deal with corrupt big union greed all over again? Can't blame any company big or small for not wanting that.

[Anonymous]

I already stated a couple of pages ago that the US needs to find a way to create more manufacturing jobs in the US that pay $12 or $15 or more an hour. But one of the big problems we face in doing that is the liberal politician's best friend, "Big Labor". As soon as the US tries to grow any kind of manufacturing labor force, Unions do their best to horn in on a piece of the action and by doing so drive across the board costs thru the roof. In past decades they did it with the auto and steel industries and almost all manufacturing industries. Now they are glomming onto the retail industry because it is the last big piece of the pie. The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

 

Liberal progressive politicians and their drooling low info followers don't what to hear that because it is a threat to their existence. Like you they would rather raise the minimum wage to unrealistic levels so that the burden is dumped onto the backs of the small business owner. With you people it's all about passing the buck and fucking someone else so that you can go home at night and feel good about yourselves.

Hmmm, I don't know Renee. I agree that big labour is a corrupt behemoth that has it's fatcat leaders back and not the paid membership. However, do people in first world nations really want to work in steel and auto plants? I think if the USA started bring home a lot of the factories that drifted overseas they would be manned by foreigners on temporary visas. Just my 2 cents.

Right now I think a lot of people in the US will work anywhere given the opportunity for a halfway decent wage. Youth unemployment is thru the roof and unskilled labor is reduced to retail and fast food jobs that aren't worth more than 8 bucks an hour. Providing factory positions for $12 or $15 dollars and hour to start and add in some basic benefits, would look pretty good to those that need to put food on the table right now. Not only that we have a shitload of returning service men and women who need jobs. I'm pretty sure most of them would take a manufacting job that paid okay.

I live in an area with a buoyant job market. There is a mattress factory here that is always in need of people. They pay something like $16/hour to start I believe the sign on the road reads. Physically demanding, repetitive, mind-numbing work I would imagine. Not many local takers, so they cast their net abroad.



Too bad we couldn't ship off to Nevada or some other state reeling from sky-high unemployment.

[Renee]

The only way to bring manufacturing back to the US is to crush the unions and relax government regulations that prevent US made goods from being price competitive.

Union membership has dropped dramatically and regulations have been relaxed. So where's all the good that's supposed to have happened?



You may want to notice that things have gotten worse with fewer unions and regulations. Wages are down, the middle class is disappearing, there are more in poverty...



You're arguing for more of it.

You mean they do not want to return because they would have to deal with corrupt big union greed all over again? Can't blame any company big or small for not wanting that.

Of course union membership has dropped. A lot of the big industrial and manufacturing sectors they had their hooks in have moved off shore. They can't follow them into other countries and extort foreign workers. And don't be so naive as to think unions didn't have a big fat hand in corporations deciding to move their manufacturing to cheaper countries. It's funny how many of the most successful auto manufacturers like Toyota, Honda and VW refuse to be union shops. Their workers get a good wage, the benefits are pretty good and the workers are happy. Why; because it's not about unions, it's about corporate responsibility. Unions create a divisive work atmosphere that pits worker against employer and it's all done so that union fat cats can line the union coffers, their own pockets and their political war chests.



As for government regulations being more relaxed I'd like to see some supporting info on that.



Oh and that supporting info can't be from some liberal rag or blog either.  I guess you got your work cut out for you so get cracking Lefty.

[Anonymous]

Of course union membership has dropped. A lot of the big industrial and manufacturing sectors they had their hooks in have moved off shore. They can't follow them into other countries and extort foreign workers. And don't be so naive as to think unions didn't have a big fat hand in corporations deciding to move their manufacturing to cheaper countries. It's funny how many of the most successful auto manufacturers like Toyota, Honda and VW refuse to be union shops. Their workers get a good wage, the benefits are pretty good and the workers are happy. Why; because it's not about unions, it's about corporate responsibility. Unions create a divisive work atmosphere that pits worker against employer and it's all done so that union fat cats can line the union coffers, their own pockets and their political war chests.



As for government regulations being more relaxed I'd like to see some supporting info on that.



Oh and that supporting info can't be from some liberal rag or blog either.  I guess you got your work cut out for you so get cracking Lefty.

The Honda plant in Alliston, Ontario is non-union I know. They never seem to have the massive lay-offs NA companies have had. The workers laid-off during the recession are all hired back now I believe. They pay very good wages and benefits like you wrote.



However, can all the big three's problems be blamed on the unions? Certainly they were no help, but how about the products being churned out in the past by the big three? Lower sales translates into job cuts for sure. For a while GM and especially Chrysler were making junk. Ford for one has really pulled up their socks. My husband has a new F-150 and loves it.

[Renee]

Of course union membership has dropped. A lot of the big industrial and manufacturing sectors they had their hooks in have moved off shore. They can't follow them into other countries and extort foreign workers. And don't be so naive as to think unions didn't have a big fat hand in corporations deciding to move their manufacturing to cheaper countries. It's funny how many of the most successful auto manufacturers like Toyota, Honda and VW refuse to be union shops. Their workers get a good wage, the benefits are pretty good and the workers are happy. Why; because it's not about unions, it's about corporate responsibility. Unions create a divisive work atmosphere that pits worker against employer and it's all done so that union fat cats can line the union coffers, their own pockets and their political war chests.



As for government regulations being more relaxed I'd like to see some supporting info on that.



Oh and that supporting info can't be from some liberal rag or blog either.  I guess you got your work cut out for you so get cracking Lefty.

The Honda plant in Alliston, Ontario is non-union I know. They never seem to have the massive lay-offs NA companies have had. The workers laid-off during the recession are all hired back now I believe. They pay very good wages and benefits like you wrote.



However, can all the big three's problems be blamed on the unions? Certainly they were no help, but how about the products being churned out in the past by the big three? Lower sales translates into job cuts for sure. For a while GM and especially Chrysler were making junk. Ford for one has really pulled up their socks. My husband has a new F-150 and loves it.

Some of the problems the big three had were indeed their product line. I believe that most of their Japanese rivals go thru full model design changes about once every 4 years while the American manufacturers where redesigning their products once every 7 on average. GM who was the world's largest car maker damaged themselves with internal political squabbling between their countless divisions. Chrysler while Mercedes owned their controlling stock was treated like the redheaded step child and was starved of R&D money. So yes Unions were not totally to blame for their fall but they sure as hell didn't help. In fact they were well aware of the financial mess that the US car companies faced and did nothing to help the situation except attempt to extort more and more money out of the companies. Furthermore GM is now saddled with the UAW for life because Obama forced them to place the Union on the board of directors as part of their restructuring and bailout. One of the reasons GM dumped Saturn was because Saturn represted the last non-union shop in the GM fold.

 

You are right about Ford they really make a decent product and they didn't take any of the Obama government cheese to do it. As for their truck line, they arguably always made the best full-size pick-up on the market. Now they just make a better one. My husband who was always a GM car fan insists that the company lease purchase Ford super duties as company vehicles because they never die.