The long term cost of lock downs

[Bricktop]

My words are misleading???



They aren't my words. They are words copied verbatim from the medical professions pre-eminent professional journal.



And they are FAR from confusing. They are very clear. The vaccine mitigates symptoms, but is less efficacious in preventing transmission.



This "Now, based on your own submission, would you please stop saying it does NOT stop infections between people because it often does" is absurd. They don't know if it "often" does or not because there is no way of assessing and observing whether it does or not. That is like saying muslims often don't blow up musical concerts.



Some do, some don't. And there is no way of distinguishing which of them will.



So, we don't ostracise all muslims because that would be discriminatory and unjust. But we are going to ostracise people who choose not to be vaccinated.



That is STILL discriminatory and unjust.

[cc]

I was referring to your words "but it does NOT stop infections between people" (should have quoted them to be more clear)



Even that article says otherwise > "This study confirms that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection"





"For the umpteenth time - My right to be clear of the unwashed is absolute ... and to have my risk increase because of their stubbornness and selfishness would be unjust to myself and so many others

[Bricktop]

My right to be clear of the unwashed is absolute ...

So, if you're vaccinated, you're clear of the "unwashed"???

[cc]

My right to be clear of the unwashed is absolute ...

So, if you're vaccinated, you're clear of the "unwashed"???

No. Vaccines are not 100 so I stay as far from the selfish as possible. Dink can watch me drink a good dry red through the window .. or he can go drink with one of his own .. I'm not totally heartless



Further, I don't like our economy and society shut down or even slowed down because of the selfish .. that affects myself, you  and everyone .. and they are who doing it now in the main ... did I mention vital operations cancelled because of the selfish?

[Bricktop]

Wait a minute...



Everybody has to be vaccinated for us to be safe?



But you admit that they are not 100%??



Thus you will, by that logic, never be safe because there will always be unvaccinated AND vaccinated carriers out there.



So, where is the social and community benefit in treating unvaccinated people as lepers, while vaccinated people equally infectious are given a pass?



This thing isn't going away. Treating people like Jews in Germany, 1939, will not end well.

[Frood]

ac_biggrin



It's a circular argument with cc.



We should all just do what she says and not question the ridiculousness of it all.

[cc]

....... Treating people like Jews in Germany, 1939, will not end well.

Drama Queening or what?



No sympathy for the selfish whatsoever. It's not a rights issue (not even at the very bottom of the rights list).

It's a wrongs issue



I'll leave you 2 to make out alone. I don't wanna see it

[Bricktop]

Even the selfish have rights. You may not agree, but it's the world we live in.



Treating non-vaxxed worse than we treat any other citizens would seem to be disproportionate to the risk they pose.

[Frood]

Is it selfish to expect everyone else to consent to a novel medical treatment which doesn't prevent transmission, no long term studies exist for it, and for an illness with a 98-99+ % recovery rate?



It used to be that your type of kid (cc) pointed fingers on the playground and screamed "ewww...they have cooties!" not "ewww, they don't have the cooties treatment!!".



...what broke your mind?

[Anonymous]

This is where I agree with DD, Blazor and dsm. Vax passports, lockdowns and mandates are theft of liberty.

[Anonymous]

Fash, Trudeau is expected to announce new travel restrictions by the end of this week. This will affect people with two doses. You might have some inconveniences when you return from your trip in January.

[Anonymous]

Fash, Trudeau is expected to announce new travel restrictions by the end of this week. This will affect people with two doses. You might have some inconveniences when you return from your trip in January.

I know Seoul....we're nervous about what federal government will do..



We might have to quarantine for fourteen days when we return.

 

[Anonymous]

One of the hardest hit casualties of our response to COVID has been our already strained public health care system.



By Lorrie Goldstein of Sun News Media



The doc won't see you now

Pandemic leads to record medical wait times for Canucks





The COVID-19 pandemic increased waiting times for Canadians seeking medical treatment this year to the longest they have ever been, according to a new study by the Fraser Institute.



A survey of 1,100 doctors across the country found the median wait time for medically necessary elective treatment in Canada in 2021 was 25.6 weeks.



This means the waiting period from the time of a referral by a general practitioner to the start of treatment by a specialist.



That's up from 22.6 weeks from the first year of the pandemic in 2020, the previous record, and 175% higher than the 9.3-week median wait recorded in 1993, the first year the Fraser Institute began tracking waiting times across the country.



"The results of this year's survey suggest that COVID-19 and related hospital closures have exacerbated, but are not the cause of Canada's historic wait time challenges," said Bacchus Barua, co-author of the study.



"Results from the same survey in 2019 revealed that patients waited an estimated 20.9 weeks for medically necessary elective care — long before the pandemic started."



According to a study by the Fraser Institute released last year, Canada has the longest medical waiting times of 10 industrialized countries with universal health-care systems that are members of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development and track comparable data.



Median waits were 41.6 weeks in Prince Edward Island, 41.5 weeks in New Brunswick, 32.1 weeks in Alberta, 31.5 weeks in Manitoba, 30.9 weeks in Saskatchewan, 29.1 weeks in Quebec, 26.2 weeks in British Columbia and 21.1 weeks in Newfoundland and Labrador.



Nationally, among the 12 medical specialties surveyed, median waits were longest between a referral by a general practitioner and neurosurgical (brain) procedures at 49.2 weeks and shortest for radiation treatments at 3.7 weeks.



Canadians also experienced median waits for diagnostic procedures of 10.2 weeks for MRIs,



5.2 weeks for CT scans and 3.6 weeks for ultrasounds.



In many cases, treatment of a patient cannot begin until these diagnostic procedures are completed, lengthening the overall time it takes from a referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist.

[Anonymous]

Fash, Trudeau is expected to announce new travel restrictions by the end of this week. This will affect people with two doses. You might have some inconveniences when you return from your trip in January.

I know Seoul....we're nervous about what federal government will do..



We might have to quarantine for fourteen days when we return.

 

This could cancel my plans to go to Florida next month. If I do, should I fly or drive. ac_dunno

[cc]

It could be worse. We really don't know where things are heading at this point in time



I'm not even sure I will be able to visit daughter 30 miles away by the time my passport arrives (got caught not knowing they had cancelled the "enhanced" driver's licenses & waiting forever for passport)

(Every time the Govt. does  something right, they screw it up by cancelling it)



They were so slow getting to it, my ID had expired by the time they did, so had to update that further delaying it #$%%^^