What They Don’t Tell You About Electric Vehicles

[Anonymous]

Hydrogen fuel-cell cars might be better than electric battery cars.

That's what Thiel was saying.

[Anonymous]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

[cc]

Another item that "climate goody-goody" owners don't talk about is that over 80% have a gas powered vehicle also



It's not hard to figure which vehicle gets used for which purpose



Whata scam the whole thing is. I'll see if I can find that link

[Anonymous]

Another item that "climate goody-goody" owners don't talk about is that over 80% have a gas powered vehicle also



It's not hard to figure which vehicle gets used for which purpose



Whata scam the whole thing is. I'll see if I can find that link

EV's are a rich man's hobby. They do nothing to improve the environment and they consume extremely scarce resources. Good for China, bad for the planet.

[Anonymous]

Electric cars are looking more like a phase. Something like propane vehicles were but with a lot more taxpayer subsidies.



Are electric cars the new 'diesel scandal' waiting to happen? They generate polluting particles just like petrol vehicles, are not even that cost-effective and, as one expert finds, will not save the planet

While diesel cars tend to be more fuel-efficient with lower emissions, they also emit greater quantities of other pollutants that damage air quality and health



What didn't emerge until much later — although it was no secret in the motor industry or among government officials — was that diesel cars also emitted greater quantities of other pollutants, nitrogen oxides and particulates that damage air quality and human health.



Such particulates, which have been linked to respiratory problems, heart disease and lung cancer, have been responsible for thousands of premature deaths. Britain wasn't alone, of course. In their desire to be seen as ever greener, governments of richer countries were all pursuing the same policies on car tax, or cutting duty on diesel fuel.



I was reminded of this by the recent warning from the Environment Secretary, George Eustice, on the 'polluting particles' produced by battery-powered vehicles. Not from exhaust emissions, but from brake linings, tyres and road surfaces, because such vehicles are much heavier owing to the presence of the battery.



No doubt others experienced a similar sense of deja vu. For in an effort to signal climate leadership, No 10 is racing to end the dominance of petrol and diesel-powered cars. Indeed, it is banning the sale of new fossil-fuel vehicles from 2030. Just as it once extolled the benefits of diesel, we are told now that electric cars are the future — and a crucial fix for climate change.



What it fails to tell us, however, is that electric cars are not the answer for many people, for a host of practical reasons. These include their upfront cost, limited range, the time it takes to charge batteries, the new infrastructure needed for charging points and the extra power required to supply them.



Even more alarmingly, a report in the journal Nature suggests that because electric cars are heavier than other vehicles, they will likely kill more occupants of other vehicles in traffic accidents.



As for climate change, electric cars will do little to arrest it. So for now, at least, they are one of the least effective and most expensive ways to cut carbon — and economically they are a bad bet.



Just last week, a report by the Commons Transport Committee found that taxpayers face an eye-watering £35 billion bill to plug the gap created by the switch to electric cars. At present, owners of such cars pay neither fuel duty, which nets £28 billion every year, nor vehicle exercise duty, which brings in £7 billion. The revenue is spent on schools, hospitals and other priorities such as the police, as well as fixing roads.



And not only do they reduce government revenue, they also demand costly subsidies. In Germany, the subsidy is above ¤10,000 (£8,460) for a fully electric car, but that still drives only one sale in eight.



Norway leads the global race, with electric cars accounting for 65 per cent of new sales, but it takes a ludicrous amount of government cash to achieve this. It includes savings of $29,000 (£21,400) on average per car in sales and registration tax, and $11,000 (£8,100) on road tolls.



Who is buying the cars is another concern. A study by the U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research suggests that almost all electric car subsidies go to the wealthiest 20 per cent, for whom the purchase of an extra car is no great sacrifice. In addition, 90 per cent of electric car owners also have a fossil-fuel vehicle they use for longer journeys.



As for charging, for many owners this is simply a question of fitting a point in their driveway. But 40 per cent of UK households don't have access to off-street parking. According to some estimates, the global cost of building the infrastructure needed is $6 trillion (£4.4 trillion).



And what of the huge increase in power production needed to charge millions of electric cars? Climate policy is already adding more than £10 billion annually to Britain's electricity costs, as inefficient renewables continue to need support. If the extra power required for charging the cars is generated from fossil fuels to keep electricity costs down, much of the environmental gain would be lost.



In time, better technology will make batteries cheaper and electric cars will become more economical. But concerns over range and recharging will be much more difficult to rectify.



The truth is that most people invest in cars because they give them mobility. They don't want to be stuck with a flat battery or endure forced stops to top it up. All of the above is why many people are reluctant to embrace electric vehicles, even with huge bribes.



According to one authoritative study, even by 2050 electric cars will make up just 20 per cent of global car travel.



But perhaps none of that matters if electric cars will save the planet? And they will, won't they? Er, no.



The International Energy Agency (IEA) estimates that if every nation achieves their ambitious targets on increasing electric car ownership, it will reduce CO2 emissions in this decade by 235 million tons.



That, according to the UN Climate Panel's standard model, will reduce global temperatures by about one ten-thousandth of a degree Celsius (0.0001c) by the end of the century.



Such modest climate benefits don't make up for the additional downsides of electric vehicles, which include the harsh environmental and social costs that come with mining rare metals needed for batteries.



So what should politicians be doing? For a start, they could stop showering subsidies on electric cars and focus on smarter solutions. The IEA found that hybrid cars save about the same amount of CO2 as electric cars over their lifetime. Moreover, they are already competitive with petrol cars price-wise — even without subsidies — and, crucially, they don't have most of the electric car downsides outlined above.



It is also possible there will be a place for hydrogen-powered vehicles in a greener future, too.



Finally, we need to realise that climate change doesn't care about where the emissions come from. Personal cars account for just 7 per cent of global emissions.



We should be targeting bigger emitters of CO2 such as industry, agriculture and electricity production, and specifically we should fund much greater investment into green energy innovation.



If science could make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels in these areas, that would be a game-changer. Then everyone, not only virtue-signalling elites, would be able to reduce their carbon footprint substantially.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10483317/Are-electric-cars-new-diesel-scandal-Expert-looks-future-road-travel.html?fbclid=IwAR2Hq4IJep6DukbM9Wz10pICfrELSjo91tC8jOp361_mkVWHDIeo4SPKJ9A">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Ieo4SPKJ9A">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10483317/Are-electric-cars-new-diesel-scandal-Expert-looks-future-road-travel.html?fbclid=IwAR2Hq4IJep6DukbM9Wz10pICfrELSjo91tC8jOp361_mkVWHDIeo4SPKJ9A

[Bricktop]

I cannot see a future for hydrogen powered vehicles.



Creating liquid hydrogen requires enormous amounts of energy, and transporting it around countries is incredibly dangerous. If a fuel tanker filled with liquid hydrogen is involved in a collision that causes fire, the consequent explosion would devastate whole city blocks. Ditto if hydrogen powered vehicles are involved in a crash that results in emitting flames.



Liquid hydrogen is far more volatile than liquid petroleum gas, and that is already highly dangerous.



Another dead end.

[Anonymous]

I cannot see a future for hydrogen powered vehicles.



Creating liquid hydrogen requires enormous amounts of energy, and transporting it around countries is incredibly dangerous. If a fuel tanker filled with liquid hydrogen is involved in a collision that causes fire, the consequent explosion would devastate whole city blocks. Ditto if hydrogen powered vehicles are involved in a crash that results in emitting flames.



Liquid hydrogen is far more volatile than liquid petroleum gas, and that is already highly dangerous.



Another dead end.

It takes about four times more energy to move hydrogen through pipelines than natural gas.



A hydrogen economy idea does not work for multiple reasons. They point out that there is no practical source of hydrogen, no good way to store hydrogen, and no good way to distribute hydrogen. Many of the problems of hydrogen stem from the physical and chemical properties of hydrogen. Technology cannot change these facts.

[Bricktop]

You can break the laws of Man, but the laws of physics are incontrovertible.

[cc]

That's a good article overall, Seoul.



That said, hydrogen is scary stuff with many pitfalls

[Anonymous]

We don't have the land or the rare earth resources for e-cars to replace internal combustion engines. Not to mention they would turn the planet into one giant tailings pond.



Unless there are major technological breakthroughs with fuel cells that will not be a replacement either. More likely we will be using gasoline powered cars with much lower emissions and better fuel mileage in thirty years.

[Zetsu]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

Looks like you've already beat me to it, this is already Finland were cold weather should help preserve the lithium-ion battery's life span by double, yet it died in 10 years, which points to the obvious issue, EVs have no resale value.

[Anonymous]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

Looks like you've already beat me to it, this is already Finland were cold weather should help preserve the lithium-ion battery's life span by double, yet it died in 10 years, which points to the obvious issue, EVs have no resale value.

Cold weather extends ev battery life?



I know cold weather reduces the time between charges.

[Zetsu]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

Looks like you've already beat me to it, this is already Finland were cold weather should help preserve the lithium-ion battery's life span by double, yet it died in 10 years, which points to the obvious issue, EVs have no resale value.

Cold weather extends ev battery life?



I know cold weather reduces the time between charges.

From batteryuniversity.com 's research, they say lithium-ion batteries left at 0 degrees Celsius temperature deteriorates at half the speed compared to at room temp / 25 degrees C.  Unless the sub zero temperature of Finland might have ruined the battery's chemical compound, this is something I'm not too familiar with.

[Anonymous]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

Looks like you've already beat me to it, this is already Finland were cold weather should help preserve the lithium-ion battery's life span by double, yet it died in 10 years, which points to the obvious issue, EVs have no resale value.

Cold weather extends ev battery life?



I know cold weather reduces the time between charges.

From batteryuniversity.com 's research, they say lithium-ion batteries left at 0 degrees Celsius temperature deteriorates at half the speed compared to at room temp / 25 degrees C.  Unless the sub zero temperature of Finland might have ruined the battery's chemical compound, this is something I'm not too familiar with.

By deteriorate you mean they need recharging sooner?

[Zetsu]

A man in Finland has blown up his Tesla vehicle with 66 pounds of dynamite in defiance over the cost of a new battery after he claimed to face a $22,000 repair bill.



Tuomas Katainen, who lives in Jaala village in south Finland's Kymenlaakso, exploded his 2012 Tesla Model S at a former quarry in a video uploaded to YouTube.



The Tesla S model 2012 cost around $57,400 to $77,400 when it was released.



Tesla's warranty covers battery replacements if the capacity drops below 70 percent within 150,000 miles or eight years of purchase, leaving some owners of the older models facing large repair bills.

Looks like you've already beat me to it, this is already Finland were cold weather should help preserve the lithium-ion battery's life span by double, yet it died in 10 years, which points to the obvious issue, EVs have no resale value.

Cold weather extends ev battery life?



I know cold weather reduces the time between charges.

From batteryuniversity.com 's research, they say lithium-ion batteries left at 0 degrees Celsius temperature deteriorates at half the speed compared to at room temp / 25 degrees C.  Unless the sub zero temperature of Finland might have ruined the battery's chemical compound, this is something I'm not too familiar with.

By deteriorate you mean they need recharging sooner?

Exactly, simply charge or energy holding capacity has been downsized.