EV's, Reliable Power, et al

[DKG]

https://mobile.twitter.com/atensnut/status/1636033954200297475">https://mobile.twitter.com/atensnut/sta ... 4200297475">https://mobile.twitter.com/atensnut/status/1636033954200297475

That is a picture the Biden administration wants to classify as disinformation.

[DKG]

I am not ruling out an eclectric car. I drive out of town no more than once a month. I do not work far from my condo, so I could take a bus or Uber if we are in a cold spell and it won't charge.

They can be fun and they have a place. My only problem continues to be having them shoved onto the market in quantities that the grid cannot support. I have had a blast driving a Tesla Model 3. During the winter, I race electric go carts to keep my skills up.

That is a valid criticism. Car makers and their proponents claim the grid can handle one hundred million additional e cars. The grid as it stands in many parts of the US(California and Texas) cannot handle existing demand.

[Herman]

This is an example from Alabama how the solar and wind wankers lie about the true cost of solar and wind power generation.



Is Solar Cheaper Than Natural Gas?

https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas/">https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-che ... tural-gas/">https://www.powersouth.com/is-solar-cheaper-than-natural-gas/

June 30, 2020



A few weeks ago, environmental protesters argued that the Alabama Public Service Commission should mandate that Alabama Power build solar generation instead of its proposed natural gas combined cycle plant because solar power is cheaper. The Rocky Mountain Institute reports that today clean renewable solar power is cheaper than natural gas-fired generation. Bloomberg Energy, USA Today and other media outlets also report that solar power is now cheaper than fossil fuel generation.



I have discussed PowerSouth's generation plans in these articles a number of times. We will close our coal-fired Lowman Plant in Leroy, Alabama, in October and build in its place a state-of-the-art 693 megawatt (MW) natural gas combined cycle plant.

The new plant will cost more than $500 million to construct. We expect it to operate at a capacity factor of at least 85%, which means on average it will produce its stated 693 megawatt output 85% of the time. At that capacity factor, the fixed cost (or capacity cost) of owning the combined cycle plant will be approximately $8.90 per megawatt hour (MWH). The energy cost (or variable cost) to operate the plant will be dependent upon the price of natural gas and its transportation cost to the plant. At $2.00/MMBTU (when I wrote this article, daily gas was $1.68/MMBTU), plus operations and maintenance costs, the variable cost of energy from the combined cycle plant will be approximately $20.63 per MWH. Therefore, the total generation cost of electricity from the combined cycle plant (with $2.00/MMBTU natural gas) will be approximately $29.53 per MWH.



Additionally, we recently signed a contract to purchase solar power from an 80-MW solar generation facility starting in 2022. The solar facility will operate at a capacity factor of about 25%, which means it will provide its promised 80 MW about 25% of the time. We will buy the output of the solar facility on a dollar-per-MWH fixed cost basis when energy is produced. The cost of energy under our solar contract is very attractive at a generation cost of about $22.00 per MWH.



The cost of this solar-generated electricity at $22.00 per MWH is cheaper than the cost of electricity from our natural gas combined cycle plant at $29.53 per MWH. However, that comparison doesn't even start to tell the whole story.



Electric consumers in developed countries demand power to be available whenever they need or want it, not just when the sun is shining. The combined cycle plant is fully dispatchable and will provide electricity when people need it, whether the sun shines or not. Solar power doesn't generate at night and is limited on cloudy days. Solar power must be paired with something else before it is as reliable as natural gas.



The solution most often offered is battery storage.



Batteries can be deployed at utility scale, but additional solar generation must be installed to charge the batteries while the sun is shining so the batteries can provide power at nights and on cloudy days.



Batteries are designed for specific discharge cycles. Most utility scale batteries have four-hour discharge cycles; therefore, at least three sets of batteries will be needed to cover the nighttime hours and provide a reserve for cloudy days.



Battery costs are decreasing, but based upon recent proposals of $1,500,000 per MW, the total cost of battery storage is about $92.33 per MWH, in addition to the $22.00 per MWH cost of the solar power to charge the battery.



Very conservatively, the total cost of the solar power with battery storage will be an average of $56.63 per MWH, assuming solar 15 hours a day and batteries 9 hours. With natural gas at $2.00/MMBTU, that cost is about 92% higher than the cost of electricity from our planned combined cycle plant.



Why then do many statements that solar is cheaper than natural gas go unchallenged? The information is hard to find, and calculations are difficult. Too often the cost of pure solar when the sun is shining is offered as the comparison to natural gas. That is not a true comparison – electricity must be available on demand, not just when the sun is shining. And, finally some people aren't truthful, even to themselves.



Given a choice, a huge majority of people will choose the lowest cost and most reliable source of electricity. Today, that is clearly natural gas.

[Lokmar]

They can be fun and they have a place. My only problem continues to be having them shoved onto the market in quantities that the grid cannot support. I have had a blast driving a Tesla Model 3. During the winter, I race electric go carts to keep my skills up.

That is a valid criticism. Car makers and their proponents claim the grid can handle one hundred million additional e cars. The grid as it stands in many parts of the US(California and Texas) cannot handle existing demand.

You could put a hundred million electric cars on the grid.....but they're all charging on 50a 240v which means your car is charging overnight. To charge in 15 minutes to 80%, you need 480 3ph.

[Herman]

That is a valid criticism. Car makers and their proponents claim the grid can handle one hundred million additional e cars. The grid as it stands in many parts of the US(California and Texas) cannot handle existing demand.

You could put a hundred million electric cars on the grid.....but they're all charging on 50a 240v which means your car is charging overnight. To charge in 15 minutes to 80%, you need 480 3ph.

And they don't recommend you do that frequently.

[DKG]

That is a valid criticism. Car makers and their proponents claim the grid can handle one hundred million additional e cars. The grid as it stands in many parts of the US(California and Texas) cannot handle existing demand.

You could put a hundred million electric cars on the grid.....but they're all charging on 50a 240v which means your car is charging overnight. To charge in 15 minutes to 80%, you need 480 3ph.

If a house was fitted with that it would mean much higher electricity costs.

[Lokmar]

You could put a hundred million electric cars on the grid.....but they're all charging on 50a 240v which means your car is charging overnight. To charge in 15 minutes to 80%, you need 480 3ph.

If a house was fitted with that it would mean much higher electricity costs.

The higher costs would have to come FIRST in the form of higher taxes. I cant imagine what it would cost to upgrade our power grid so that every home could have at least double its wattage capacity. The whole thing is absurd. People are gonna find out soon.

[Herman]

[DKG]

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm continued her suggestion that the U.S. government should look to China's renewable energy investments for inspiration, while also agreeing that China is the largest polluter in the world. About 30% of the world's carbon emissions come from China.  China is opening two coal plants per week and the energy secretary is praising China as she is trying to shut down coal plants in the US.

[Odinson]

So...





A lot of new electric cars wind up at the dump because of small battery issues.



You cannot repair them and replacing them costs too much.

[Lokmar]

I wonder if you can make IED's out of fucked up electric cars?

[Anonymous]

If a house was fitted with that it would mean much higher electricity costs.

The higher costs would have to come FIRST in the form of higher taxes. I cant imagine what it would cost to upgrade our power grid so that every home could have at least double its wattage capacity. The whole thing is absurd. People are gonna find out soon.

The problem becomes moot with the rollout of 15 minute cities. I shouldn't wonder that our "benevolent" overlords are banking on the reduced expectations re: freedom of movement in the generations to come, particularly if these self-same young upstarts can also be relied upon to fulfil their role of eco-warriors a-la Greta van Moochburg where us older farts are concerned.



Time to invest in a Mad Maxmobile methinks... along with a fuckton of armaments.

[Lokmar]

The higher costs would have to come FIRST in the form of higher taxes. I cant imagine what it would cost to upgrade our power grid so that every home could have at least double its wattage capacity. The whole thing is absurd. People are gonna find out soon.

The problem becomes moot with the rollout of 15 minute cities. I shouldn't wonder that our "benevolent" overlords are banking on the reduced expectations re: freedom of movement in the generations to come, particularly if these self-same young upstarts can also be relied upon to fulfil their role of eco-warriors a-la Greta van Moochburg where us older farts are concerned.



Time to invest in a Mad Maxmobile methinks... along with a fuckton of armaments.

All these assholes that dont have guns are fucked. Hell, all anyone can do in Australia is douse themselves with gas and tackle a cop or politician and light themselves on fire. Fucking pathetic. Here's to 50 round drum magazines and binary triggers!  ac_drinks  MERICUH!!!!!

[Anonymous]

The problem becomes moot with the rollout of 15 minute cities. I shouldn't wonder that our "benevolent" overlords are banking on the reduced expectations re: freedom of movement in the generations to come, particularly if these self-same young upstarts can also be relied upon to fulfil their role of eco-warriors a-la Greta van Moochburg where us older farts are concerned.



Time to invest in a Mad Maxmobile methinks... along with a fuckton of armaments.

All these assholes that dont have guns are fucked. Hell, all anyone can do in Australia is douse themselves with gas and tackle a cop or politician and light themselves on fire. Fucking pathetic. Here's to 50 round drum magazines and binary triggers!  ac_drinks  MERICUH!!!!!

Most of them can't even do that much, it simply wouldn't occur to them to do it. Even if it did, untold centuries of conditioning kicks in and they take to lying to themselves that it will all become better once they get the other guy into office. Canada is much the same way - people being loyal to one party or another and never once considering that someone with the means might have already bought off both to serve their own ends.



It's the one thing that I admire the US for over most other countries I can think to name. Ironically it's the same thing that the people of other nations are wont to pour scorn on the fifty for... this idea that one have both the understanding they are being fucked with and the state sanctioned means to effect a decent amount of change should they see an immediate and pressing need to do so.

[DKG]

The higher costs would have to come FIRST in the form of higher taxes. I cant imagine what it would cost to upgrade our power grid so that every home could have at least double its wattage capacity. The whole thing is absurd. People are gonna find out soon.

The problem becomes moot with the rollout of 15 minute cities. I shouldn't wonder that our "benevolent" overlords are banking on the reduced expectations re: freedom of movement in the generations to come, particularly if these self-same young upstarts can also be relied upon to fulfil their role of eco-warriors a-la Greta van Moochburg where us older farts are concerned.



Time to invest in a Mad Maxmobile methinks... along with a fuckton of armaments.

The Oxfordshire example of a fifteen minute city was scary.