Big Oil to Rachel Notley: Bring on a carbon tax

[Romero]

Big Oil is urging Alberta's new government to toughen up the province's environmental policies.



To hear an oil industry chieftain advocate for a carbon tax, as Suncor's Steve Williams did in front of a downtown Calgary crowd on Friday, may feel incongruous, but consider who those comments were directed to — the NDP — and the situation takes on a tinge of the surreal.



It's the latest sign of how much the political landscape has shifted in Alberta, as well as the global discussion about climate change.



"We think climate change is happening," Williams, Suncor's chief executive, told reporters. "We think a broad-based carbon price is the right answer."



On its own, an NDP election win would seem to imply that Alberta's environmental policy is about to grow some real teeth. Line that up with a panel discussion — involving an environmental think-tank, voices from Suncor and Cenovus, two of Canada's largest oil companies, and former Tory finance minister Jim Dinning — that was described as a "love in" by the moderator and serious reform in Alberta looks to be a fait accompli.



In backing the idea of a carbon tax, Suncor's Williams repeatedly noted that since 80 per cent of emissions come at the point of combustion, any strategy trying to take on climate change must include end users — people turning ignition switches and flipping on lights at home.



Rare as it is for an oil company to call for a carbon tax, rarer still in this age of partisanship is hearing the oil industry, the environmental lobby and business groups sing from the same song book about the need for that tax.



"I think it is a good thing when we have messages across the room echoing the same thing," Amin Asadollahi, Pembina's director of oilsands research, said after speaking on the panel. "It should send a clear signal to politicians that industry and environmental groups are ready to move forward on a more effective policy. That's a good thing."



http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/big-oil-to-rachel-notley-bring-on-a-carbon-tax-1.3084357">//http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/big-oil-to-rachel-notley-bring-on-a-carbon-tax-1.3084357

[RW]

Hrm....

[J0E]

But will it only end up killin' the Goose which has laid the Golden Eggs for Alberta?

[Bricktop]

Wait, let me see if I got this right.



Like the morons who recently got voted out here in Oz, your Government wants to bring in a "carbon tax"?



So, apparently, Canadian governments did not get the memo; taxing carbon will make not ONE iota of difference in regards to global warming. Not even a minor percent of a percent.



This is typical western democratic farce; fix any problem with a tax. People smoke? Tax them. People drive cars? Tax them. People buy goods? Tax them.



Tax is like crack to governments. They think we OWE them our money.



If it does not stop, it will get worse...

[Romero]

In this case it's actually oil companies telling government they want a carbon tax.

[RW]

Romero, they are saying they want a carbon tax because it won't tax what they are taking out of the ground but rather those who USE said oil.  Read it again re: combustion.



Carbon tax is bullshit and what they use carbon offsets for is fucked up.

[Romero]

I don't need to read it again. The oil companies are telling the Alberta government they want a carbon tax.

[RW]

"In backing the idea of a carbon tax, Suncor's Williams repeatedly noted that since 80 per cent of emissions come at the point of combustion, any strategy trying to take on climate change must include end users — people turning ignition switches and flipping on lights at home."



It's just another tax that is going to burn everyday people.

[Anonymous]

"In backing the idea of a carbon tax, Suncor's Williams repeatedly noted that since 80 per cent of emissions come at the point of combustion, any strategy trying to take on climate change must include end users — people turning ignition switches and flipping on lights at home."



It's just another tax that is going to burn everyday people.

I agree Renee..



The outgoing government wanted to raise fees and taxes 59 times..



Now big business wants us to pay more too?

 ac_wot

[Bricktop]

Importantly, no tax has yet proven effective to cease global warming.



Now, I'm not saying that global warming is a natural phenomenon...Hey, maybe while they're at it they can tax air.



Because that's what causes cyclones and hurricanes and tornados...and they have to be man made too, right?

[RW]

Importantly, no tax has yet proven effective to cease global warming.



Now, I'm not saying that global warming is a natural phenomenon...Hey, maybe while they're at it they can tax air.



Because that's what causes cyclones and hurricanes and tornados...and they have to be man made too, right?

Oh get this!



I am more familiar with public budgets and on them is a carbon tax line which is money collected to buy "carbon offsets".  So they collect their own money essentially and then use it to do things like upgrade windows in privately owned hotels or used to plant trees.  Do they use the money to save on their own carbon tax dollars by say making schools more energy efficient?  Of course not.  Does planting trees reduce carbon emissions?  Nope.



If we are going to do this stupid shit, can we at least do it closer to right please?

[Bricktop]

No TAX ever solved anything!!! EVER.



"My view of taxation is much like that of the great Austrian economist F.A. Hayek: It's a necessary evil, but only insofar as the problems it's meant to solve can't be addressed in any other way. It's far better to address economic and social problems at the source than to use state power to forcibly redistribute income to compensate for them after the fact.



That is so for two reasons, both rooted in the essentially involuntary nature of taxes.



First, taxes expropriate resources from (mostly) unwilling individuals, which is something that should be reserved only for the most extreme problems in society.



Second, by endowing the state with the coercive power to expropriate, taxes create a dynamic that seems to lead inevitably to unrestricted abuse of that power. Civil asset forfeiture, about which I wrote earlier this week, is a prime example."



A fucking MEN.

[RW]

So where should governments get money to fix roads, offer universal health care and education, law enforcement, defense etc, without using taxation?  Because that is the purpose of taxation - to provide the government with spending money.

[Bricktop]

So where should governments get money to fix roads, offer universal health care and education, law enforcement, defense etc, without using taxation?  Because that is the purpose of taxation - to provide the government with spending money.

The eternal question.



If no tax, how does Government function?



Well, firstly, WHY does Government function? And if we need a Government, why should we pay for it?



I do not ignore the fact that there are a number of critical areas that must be funded, such as roads, infrasructure, and defence. Tolls would cover road maintainance, likewise infrastructure. We already pay for utilities.



Health and Education must be pay as you go. Private health cover and annual school fees. Remember, you don't pay income tax any more, so you will be able to pay these fees.



So, we eliminate personal income tax, and instead focus on making corporations pay more from their massive profits. The elimination of personal income tax will free up enormous amounts of spending money from wage earners, raising business profits.



All Government bureaucracies must be self funded. If they provide a vital service, they charge. If they are a waste of space, as many are, we dump them.



Politicians do not get paid. Instead, their employers continue to pay them their salary whilst the work FOR the community. Being a politician should not mean financial reward. When you're done, you go back to your former vocation.



We vote for a President. The President appoints Ministers from any source. Our representatives do not elect or control Ministers. Thet represent.



Simple.

[RW]

How very American there Spec.  



I say bullshit on pay as you go healthcare and education.  I'd rather pay taxes.