Is it time for South Carolina to take down the Confederate flag?

[Bricktop]

Yes, I see what you mean.



The difference is that is a national flag. The confederate flag holds no formal status.

[@realAzhyaAryola]

Big deal! They're both symbols.

[Bricktop]

I don't disagree. However, there is no NEED to fly one of them. It's time has passed.

[J0E]

Every flag has oppressed someone at sometime or another, spectre.

Here's the old anthem and flag of the Czarist Russian Empire.







Russia has always been an oppressive place for many.



Still, it is my favorite obsolete/defunct anthem because it conveys sadness, melancholy and the suffering of the Russian peopke. Entitled 'God save the tsar', it failed to come to save him in his time of need.

So, Azhya...how about we allow the flying of the swastika? It meets all the standards you espouse.



How about this one?



http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mqZ0VdlKpWqdNmPHcPQq-qw.jpg">.

Apartheid era South Africa.



What that confederacy flag represents is a nation divided, killing itself over slavery.



I fail to see the virtue.

[Frood]

You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one

The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.

[Renee]

You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one

The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.

Have you read Thomas DiLorenzo's "Lincoln Umasked" or "The Real Lincoln"? Because it would appear that you have.

[Frood]

You are right. It is defiance. Nothing to do with the current thing, it needed to be gone long ago on principle alone



Holy hell. I have to scroll 3 feet  down to "Submit"



Smilies  3 ft down  the right side of my page



Wow - add them or what - I hope I got my "rolling with laughter one

The South repeatedly sent delegates to Washington in order to have their grievances heard about States rights and economic matters. They were constantly turned away and never to my knowledge even granted an audience once.



Slavery wasn't an issue in it. The North had made sure that the South could only have its agricultural goods processed in the North at lower than market rates and not abroad. (a racket) It amounted to the North pickpocketing the South (fertile climate and cheap labor).



Slavery as an issue entered into the war quite late when the Lincoln decided through the Emancipation Proclamation that the slaves of its Southern enemy were "free" while ensuring that slaves above the Mason Dixon would remain slaves in Northern controlled territory. It was nothing more than an act of wartime chicanery.



Most people are ignorant of the history leading up to and through the 1860's and that's in no small part due to the reinterpretation via government approved textbooks. The Civil War had a number of striking similarities to the earlier American Revolution though. That's not to say that some dodgy ideologies since haven't attached to their own meanings or symbolism to the rebel flag or in fact, the original stars and stripes of the thirteen colonies and the Gadsden or variants of.



They were all flags of defiance against colonialism and later, its sister federalism.



There was no moral victory for the North. In fact, the actions of the North permanently altered American society in a far worse manner. America in the 1860's and beyond, evolved into the very type of ham fisted system which spurred its creation.



This flag ban crap amounts to nothing more than Federalism putting the final nails into the defiance coffin and it should be resisted at every turn.

Have you read Thomas DiLorenzo's "Lincoln Umasked" or "The Real Lincoln"? Because it would appear that you have.

I've heard the name but never read anything from that author.



I was a history buff in my earlier days.

[Renee]

How about Dwight G. Anderson's, "Abraham Lincoln: The Quest for Immortality" or "Patricide in the House Divided: A Psychological Interpretation of Lincoln and His Age" by George B. Forgie?



If not, you should. They are all decent literary representations of the anti-Lincoln movement .

[Frood]

How about Dwight G. Anderson's, "Abraham Lincoln: The Quest for Immortality" or "Patricide in the House Divided: A Psychological Interpretation of Lincoln and His Age" by George B. Forgie?



If not, you should. They are all decent literary representations of the anti-Lincoln movement .

Can't recall reading any of those to be honest but I'll scribble them down on my notepad and look into them further for reading potential. I very much loath Lincoln and his exploits. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

[Romero]

The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

Exactly. If anybody feels it's just history and not racist, they can blame the racists. It's been used as a white supremacist symbol so many times for so long.

[Frood]

Look at how many people outside of the US have died because of the red,white, and blue. Wars in the Middle East, Africa, and appointed dictators all over would therefore make the US flag a symbol of oppression and death?



You never see a Dixie flag burnt on a television broadcast.



Should the US federal government take down its flags over embassies, consulates, and military bases? Does it also symbolize certain desirable traits along with undesirable ones?

[Romero]

It's a different situation. Not many Americans see the US flag in that way. But a large number of Americans personally find the Confederate flag racist and offensive.

[Frood]

It's a different situation. Barely any Americans see the American flag in that way.

So historical facts should bow to populism, patriotic fervor, or misconceptions?



What about Custer, massacres, and hacked off genital souvenirs? Was the red, white, and blue flown during any of that? Did some of the eventual tribe many decades down the road also sign up to fight during WW2 under a similar red, white, and blue?



Why was that flag allowed to and continue to be allowed to bury atrocities yet the Dixie flag is vilified with a contorted link to slavery as its basic symbolism?



I don't see the logic in any of it.

[Anonymous]

The Confederate flag most likely stirs the same emotions among African Americans as the swastika does among Jews.

This one to Chinese or Koreans.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/qctimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/7a/e7ab9b28-1230-11e2-b28a-001a4bcf887a/50745552c4aa9.preview-620.jpg">