Is it fair for women in the workplace to use maternity leave every 1-2 years?

[RW]

I can tell the difference between the truly intelligent and those who think they are intelligent.  If you think you can't learn from all sorts, you aren't that smart.

[Romero]

But you want to have babies, but continue with a lifestyle that takes away your parental role. Whilst there must be some dispensation to women who decide to have children, forcing employers to carry you in the process is untenable.

Funny how some people think that only women have babies and children. The birds and the bees says it takes two to tango.



Nothing's stopping the fathers from taking the time off, at least nowadays. But mothers are still mainly the ones expected to raise a child and put their career on hold. So lucky! It's like winning the lottery!



Spending a little time with your children, especially when they're first developing, is pretty important. That one single 3-6 month paternal leave may be the most time a child and parent spends with each other until who knows when. Most the rest of life is 9-5, cook dinner and off to bed.



People live until around eighty. Work for decades. Is a developing child and parent spending a few months together really too much to ask for?



And still the mothers are always to blame. What happened to family values? Since when is looking after your kid supposed to be a bad thing?

[Wulf]

That's why I usually avoid places like this. I've learned a long time ago that forums that have no direction in terms of interest and topics are nothing more than flame forums, simmering and waiting to erupt.

That is somewhat unkind.



I think TBC has established a very good culture of interesting discussions. True, some can get rather willing, but overall, in terms of discussing and debating a range of issues without deteriorating into name calling and flaming, we've done OK.



To testify to this fact, look at where the Bastard factory rejects veered towards. They felt this place wasn't to their liking. That was a great compliment.



Hope they're happy at Van. They deserve each other.



Its true one of our more recent acquisitions, sadly another Australian, has yet to learn its manners in polite society, overall I think we've done OK.

To be honest, Inspector, I don't think that one will ever learn it's manners and I am of the strong opinion that it has no intention of doing so. It insists on eating with its feet and farting at the dinner table. It's just a matter of time for that one before it is dealt with properly. No doubt after it reads this, instead of taking the strong hint, it will whine pitifully that it is being threatened.



 Personally I think it's presence here is indicative of places like this. So far you have been lucky because competent trolls and ace internet jag-offs know that places like this really hold nothing for them. They know that they can be turffed far too easily.



So what you are left with is third rate dumb shit trolls like Dinky who think they can pass themselves off as legitimately intelligent members of the community or moron losers like Mel and Odinson who simply don't know any better.



BTW, I think most of the BF refugees have moved on from the main VF forum. The amount of red handles has diminished of late.

[Wulf]

I can tell the difference between the truly intelligent and those who think they are intelligent.  If you think you can't learn from all sorts, you aren't that smart.

I'm not saying you can't come away with something from just about any interaction with someone no matter how smart or stupid they happen to be.



But again, is it really knowledge or just verification of what your life experience has already taught you?

[RW]

I can tell the difference between the truly intelligent and those who think they are intelligent.  If you think you can't learn from all sorts, you aren't that smart.

I'm not saying you can't come away with something from just about any interaction with someone no matter how smart or stupid they happen to be.



But again, is it really knowledge or just verification of what your life experience has already taught you?

Challenges to my opinion strengthen my point of view as well.  Sometimes my mind is changed.  Sometimes it's a new way to evaluate my life experience.



I guess I'm not so static Wulf.

[Bricktop]

To be honest, Inspector, I don't think that one will ever learn it's manners and I am of the strong opinion that it has no intention of doing so. It insists on eating with its feet and farting at the dinner table. It's just a matter of time for that one before it is dealt with properly. No doubt after it reads this, instead of taking the strong hint, it will whine pitifully that it is being threatened.



 Personally I think it's presence here is indicative of places like this. So far you have been lucky because competent trolls and ace internet jag-offs know that places like this really hold nothing for them. They know that they can be turffed far too easily.



So what you are left with is third rate dumb shit trolls like Dinky who think they can pass themselves off as legitimately intelligent members of the community or moron losers like Mel and Odinson who simply don't know any better.



BTW, I think most of the BF refugees have moved on from the main VF forum. The amount of red handles has diminished of late.

I cannot disagree with your summary of my oafish and uncouth country-it.



It seems its major pre-occupation is to make an electronic noise similar in aural cacophony to a handful of spoons in a blender. I know who it is and where they are from, and frankly, I fail to see what possible purpose it has in coming here and poking its reptilian tongue at its betters. Which is to say, everyone.



You'd have laughed heartily at its use of a voice distorter to mask its voice, purportedly on the basis that it is famous and doesn't want its fan base to know it frequents TBC. Why that would be an embarrassment is only due to its own inane verbal diarrhoea.  I would hate to have MY name put alongside some of the babyish bilge it spouts, apparently in an attempt to impress us.



With what, only it can say...and I won't hold my breath.



However, on behalf of my fellow Australians, who would rather spend the night with a Kiwi than conduct themselves in the manner of this vacuous twit, I apologise.



As you know from my own erudite contributions, Australians are generally refined, urbane and educated.



But occasionally a twat slips through the net.

[Anonymous]

This is a conundrum..



Should employers go along with plans of men or women to stay home with their children?



I took extended maternity leave instead of my husband..



He earns much more than I do and it would affect career growth for him..



I can understand an employer's reluctance to hire someone who may take an extended leave soon after.

[RW]

When people bitch about parental leave do you folks not realize that for the first 4-6 months of life a baby relies on its mother for milk?  And don't give me this shit about formula.  We make milk to feed our babies for the beginning of their lives.



Parental leave is a compromise - a way to keep women in the workplace while meeting the early needs of a child.



Daycare is also extremely cost prohibitive.  That said, places that are on worksites where mothers can go to feed their babies during a work day see earlier returns to work.



I'm sorry to disappoint but this has more to do with biology than feminism.

[asal]

A male coworker was having a gripe today because he's been forced to cover for a female coworker who is about to use many months of further maternity leave for the second time in two years. The kicker is that both of them went for the position when it was advertised a few years ago and she was narrowly successful over him, but she's seldom around and he has to pick up the pieces. Then she returns and he gets demoted again, in effect.



He believes it's sexism since our employer has a very pro female advancement policy or activism, and he may be right. I'm a bit torn on this. If someone wants to cough up children, they probably should just leave but on the other hand, having a child shouldn't be the end of someone's career either.



If someone isn't present to do the job, should they be retained at their former position level when they return, offered another position, or just let go?



My coworker and his spouse don't have children nor want them, and they're career oriented. How is Ms. Baby Machine's behaviour fair to either of them?

Your coworker is a whiner.  He thinks he can do the job - he should find that job somewhere else if he feels used.

[Romero]

When people bitch about parental leave do you folks not realize that for the first 4-6 months of life a baby relies on its mother for milk?  And don't give me this shit about formula.  We make milk to feed our babies for the beginning of their lives.

They can just fill up a few bottles before heading off to work! Geeeeeezz

[cc]

Where is the old "we make choices - and choices have consequences"?



If someone wants a child that is good. Thinking others should pay for it is just not right.



Does anyone realize that companies now have to compete with cheap foreign goods ? Adding more cost => less sales => less jobs for people who need them, of course including jobs for those raising a family and want to pay their way.



I don't know how the system works but small firms supplementing  those who decide to have a child would break small firms = >less jobs for others or raise costs for big firms => less  sales => jobs for others



So what does a company do, hire a replacement. What do people suggest should happen to that replacement when said mom want's to return?



Signed : Satan's Special Advocate  ac_smile

[RW]

If the employer isn't paying for it, how is it a cost to the employer?

[cc]

I don't know the rules - I just popped in. I thought there was mention that someone was to pay leave? I interpreted that money from somewhere went to Mom ... maybe I misinterpreted and should be spanked  ac_smile ?



If there is no pay by anyone or any entity, fine. But even then > So what does a company do? They  hire a replacement.

What do people suggest should happen to that replacement when said mom want's to return if she is promised she can return?



Dinky's OP asked good and valid questions. "Fairness" should always be dual-directional, or in this case tri-directional counting the company and other employees, or it is not  "fairness" at all.

[Romero]

Does anyone realize that companies now have to compete with cheap foreign goods ? Adding more cost => less sales => less jobs for people who need them, of course including jobs for those raising a family and want to pay their way.

Oh yes, let's please be more "competitive" with foreign sweatshops. Live the dream!

[RW]

I don't know the rules - I just popped in. I thought there was mention that someone was to pay leave? I interpreted that money from somewhere went to Mom ... maybe I misinterpreted and should be spanked  ac_smile ?



If there is no pay by anyone or any entity, fine. But even then > So what does a company do? They  hire a replacement.

What do people suggest should happen to that replacement when said mom want's to return if she is promised she can return?



Dinky's OP asked good and valid questions. "Fairness" should always be dual-directional, or in this case tri-directional counting the company and other employees, or it is not  "fairness" at all.

In Canada, EI pays a percentage of an employee's wages while on leave.



Fairness isn't always about giving someone exactly the same thing as someone else.