Canadians Biggest Expense......TAXES!!

[Angry White Male]

The biggest expense any western land has is helping bums like me who don't work.

Exactly...



Bums, immigrants, Indians, sending money to "help Africa"...



It feels good doing it, I suppose, but there are absolutely no returns.

[Odinson]

The biggest expense any western land has is helping bums like me who don't work.

Exactly...



Bums, immigrants, Indians, sending money to "help Africa"...



It feels good doing it, I suppose, but there are absolutely no returns.

Do you think you can refugee yourself to middle-east or africa?

[RW]

The biggest expense any western land has is helping bums like me who don't work.

Exactly...



Bums, immigrants, Indians, sending money to "help Africa"...



It feels good doing it, I suppose, but there are absolutely no returns.

[/b]

Not true Ace.  Social programming and crime are connected.

[GORDY GAMBINO]

Good article from the Sun  new network about the crushing and ever increasing tax burden placed on Canadian families are forced to bear.

Taxing Canadian families has always posed a Goldilocks dilemma for government.



How much is too little? Too much? What's just right?



For decades, tax hikes were political poison, tax cuts the sweet stuff of majority governments.



So government gradually got better at hiding hikes — often through clever or downright sneaky new and higher user fees tied to services.



The overall tax burden on average families over the past 55 years — from 1961 when Conservative anti-establishment populist Prime Minister John Diefenbaker ran the country, until 2016 with selfie-loving anti-populist Justin Trudeau in charge — has increased a whopping 2006%.



That, a new Fraser Institute research report shows, by far outpaced the 718% increase in the cost of food, shelter, clothing or anything else you'd care to toss into the basket of consumer goods.



What it means is the average Canadian family now earns $83,105 and spends $42.5% of their income on tax. In 1961, most families earned $5,000 and paid 33.5% in total taxes.



Average families, Fraser found, now spend twice as much on taxes as they do on rent or mortgages — a rather stunning revelation given the typical costs of both.



This brings us back to the Goldilocks conundrum.



Why do we apparently pay so much of our income for taxes, and is our overall tax burden fair and manageable?



(Spoiler alert, it's not.)



Rapid and unrelenting change has defined the past half century, though that could probably be said of any similar period of history.



However, Canada — since 1961 — has seen both incredible growth and ideological change that has impacted average working people and the taxes they pay.



For starters, income growth since 1961 (the year Wayne Gretzky was born) significantly accounts for a good portion of tax growth.



It doesn't, however, account for the rampant growth of the overall tax burden.



The real surge in taxation — both in obvious taxes like income and sales tax and hidden taxes and new user fees — occurred following recessionary years in the 1990s, when government began to "stimulate" the economy through deficit spending.



Add up the myriad local, provincial and federal taxes and user-fee hikes — from licence plate stickers to sales tax — and there's not a corner of your pocket that doesn't seem picked.



Meanwhile, with less left in their pockets, Canadians began increasingly to feel the pinch of higher living expenses.



We now have record Canadian consumer debt levels ($1.67 for every $1 of household disposable income, Statistics Canada says), record and escalating consumer costs for hydro, car insurance, bank fees, gas and grocery prices, school tuition and an ad nauseam list of everyday expenses.



Politicians, including our Prime Minister during the last federal election campaign, love to preach "fairness" for the middle class and talk about putting "money in their pockets to save, invest, and grow the economy" but it's nakedly clear that despite the increasing struggle average families face to make ends meet, there's little end in sight of government's appetite for expanded taxation.



Trudeau plans to impose carbon taxes on all provinces, which will significantly increase the cost of all consumer goods by 2022.



There are plans to expand Canada Pension Plan funding in 2019, which will reduce paycheques for working Canadians.



Fully, 10% of all taxes paid nationwide now go towards paying off our massive and growing debt.



And debt, as anyone who has a house mortgage or car loan knows, takes money out of your pocket later for something you buy today.



As a consequence, "tax increases are being shifted onto future generations," says Charles Lammam, one of the authors of the Fraser study.



We do get much in return for taxes — public services like health care, transit, education, support for our military.



This provided justification for tax hikes — whether good ones or ill — peddled by a succession of governments of all political ilk across this country, but most, especially by left-wing political parties and interest groups which resort to ideological sophistry to retain power, validate narrow and self-serving agendas and deflect reasonable criticism.



Question the value of taxes or fees, whether civil servants should earn far more than private sector workers, why one of the most expensive health-care systems in the world suffers from chronic wait times and poor outcomes, and the political deflection becomes that such questions reflect animosity toward transit, indifference to the poor and reckless regard for health care.



So, we have collectively come to view high taxation as an indispensable and unassailable virtue, and shrug at inefficient, agenda-driven and mediocre government.



Fraser, of course, is only reporting the numbers. And the poor, suffering, unappreciated and over-taxed Canuck family undoubtedly will endure.



But at some point, the bears come home.

Good thread Shen.



Anyone who has worked as long as I have has seen more of their pay cheques being siphoned off by the taxman. The more you make, the more the vultures take. Maybe taxpayers should form a collective bargaining unit and demand lower taxes.

There was no taxation before fucken WW1 so you got off easy in the old days.

[GORDY GAMBINO]

Taxes now go to things like settling in refugees for life, extra policing costs for new Canadians, welfare cheques and other special privileges for New Canadians...  for life...



Medical expenses for New Canadians, for life.



What's a few more billion dollars this costs us?



THIS is why I smoke where I want!  I raise the funds to save the world alone, via my smoking habit.



And yes, I smoke where I want!

go fucken smoke in cc bedroom and post pics of like 2 mins after...hahahahahah :MG_216:

[Anonymous]

This country badly needs a tax revolt.



According to a report released this week by Vancouver's Fraser Institute, the average Canadian family earned just over $82,000 in 2016 and paid taxes of just over $35,000.



That means the typical family saw 42.5% of its income gobbled up by one level of government or another.



That's a higher percentage than families in every other G7 country, except France.



That's right, the Germans paid lower taxes than we did in 2016. And the Brits did too.



So did the Italians, the Japanese and the Americans.



According to Fraser, the 42.5% we surrender to federal, provincial and municipal governments is more than we pay for food, clothing and shelter – combined! We pay 37.4% for the basic necessities.



And what do we get for all that tax money? Basically two things: very happy public-sector workers and tons of waste.



Fraser looked at every auditor general's report for the past 25 years and determined that the federal government alone has wasted nearly $200 billion simply by ignoring AGs' recommendations.



On top of that, half of all taxes paid go to the salaries of public servants, who now earn salaries that are on average 10% higher than those of private-sector workers doing comparable jobs. Plus, they also have much better pensions, job security and benefits, work shorter hours and retire earlier.



Since taxes consume $2 out of every $5 Canadians earn, and since public servants' wages consume half of all taxes collected, that means $1 out of every $5 a Canadian earns goes just to paying civil servants, teachers, bureaucrats, judges, social workers and other government employees.



And spare me the lectures on how the "rich" don't pay their fair share. The top 10% of Canadian income earners paid closer to 56% of their income in taxes.



Enough is enough.



No government in the country has a revenue problem. No government brings in too little money, even though many are running deficits.



Governments are going into debt because they have spending addictions, not because Canadians are paying too few taxes.



And yet, despite all of the taxes we already pay, the federal Liberal government is about to impose one of the largest tax increases in history on middle-class Canadians.



Remember all the Liberals' high-minded talk during the 2015 federal election campaign about standing up for the middle class?



Several campaign ads featured Justin Trudeau claiming a Liberal government would ask the rich "to pay a little more," so his party could give middle-class taxpayers some much-needed relief.



Now those same Liberals are talking about small business owners and farmers – the very soul of the middle class – as if they were criminal tax cheats.



This summer, Finance Minister Bill Morneau has proposed eliminating many of the tax concessions employed by entrepreneurs and farmers to help them make up for the lack of benefits, pensions and job security salaried employees take for granted.



Because they have to save for their own retirements and pay their own health benefits, because they get no paid vacations, sick days, overtime or severance, and because they are constantly at risk of losing everything (including their homes), governments have typically allowed entrepreneurs and agricultural producers more write-offs than other taxpayers.



Small business owners may also lower their taxes by "sprinkling" their incomes around – paying dividends or salaries to family members who did a little work for their companies.



But because the Liberals are so greedy for more tax money, Morneau wants to close these "loopholes" and raise billions more (perhaps tens of billions more) every year.



Stop it. Now.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/08/26/its-time-for-a-tax-revolt-in-canada">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/08/26/i ... -in-canada">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/08/26/its-time-for-a-tax-revolt-in-canada

Let the revolution begin.

[RW]

Why do you read shit from the Fraser Institute Shen?  Do you not know they produce garbage studies?



"And what do we get for all that tax money? Basically two things: very happy public-sector workers and tons of waste."

How about universal health care?  Child tax credits for rich people (bullshit).  Decent social programming that means we don't have to invest in law enforcement and jails, etc.



There's so much wrong with that article.

[Thiel]

Why do you read shit from the Fraser Institute Shen?  Do you not know they produce garbage studies?



"And what do we get for all that tax money? Basically two things: very happy public-sector workers and tons of waste."

How about universal health care?  Child tax credits for rich people (bullshit).  Decent social programming that means we don't have to invest in law enforcement and jails, etc.



There's so much wrong with that article.

Do you think people making 150 grand are rich? Do you think job creators like myself with no benefits should have tax incentives taken away? Is our health care system which is one of the most expensive in the first world and producing mediocre results good value for money? Do we have decent social programming in this country? I assume you mean a subsistence payments to those who never saved. But how can people save when people are paying half their incomes to inefficient and very overpriced governments at all levels?



So, yes a tax revolt in this country is needed when average people pay more for government than everything else.

[RW]

Why do you read shit from the Fraser Institute Shen?  Do you not know they produce garbage studies?



"And what do we get for all that tax money? Basically two things: very happy public-sector workers and tons of waste."

How about universal health care?  Child tax credits for rich people (bullshit).  Decent social programming that means we don't have to invest in law enforcement and jails, etc.



There's so much wrong with that article.

Do you think people making 150 grand are rich? Do you think job creators like myself with no benefits should have tax incentives taken away? Is our health care system which is one of the most expensive in the first world and producing mediocre results good value for money? Do we have decent social programming in this country? I assume you mean a subsistence payments to those who never saved. But how can people save when people are paying half their incomes to inefficient and very overpriced governments at all levels?



So, yes a tax revolt in this country is needed when average people pay more for government than everything else.

I don't consider $150K to be rich.  I'd raise that number but if we are going to tax revolt, why not just go with a VAT model or consumption model instead and ditch income tax altogether?



I don't think our health care produces "mediocre results" but we can definitely do better in all respects.  That would require a overhaul of government itself and not just taxation.



I just know that your average person/family can't sustain this level of taxation.



We need far more reform than just tax and governmental.  The productivity article opened that one up for me.

[Anonymous]

Why do you read shit from the Fraser Institute Shen?  Do you not know they produce garbage studies?



"And what do we get for all that tax money? Basically two things: very happy public-sector workers and tons of waste."

How about universal health care?  Child tax credits for rich people (bullshit).  Decent social programming that means we don't have to invest in law enforcement and jails, etc.



There's so much wrong with that article.

Do you think people making 150 grand are rich? Do you think job creators like myself with no benefits should have tax incentives taken away? Is our health care system which is one of the most expensive in the first world and producing mediocre results good value for money? Do we have decent social programming in this country? I assume you mean a subsistence payments to those who never saved. But how can people save when people are paying half their incomes to inefficient and very overpriced governments at all levels?



So, yes a tax revolt in this country is needed when average people pay more for government than everything else.

You know that commercial, you're richer than you think?



I guess that applies to tax policy.

 

[RW]

Didn't you know that was CRA's motto?



"You were richer than you thought before we took half."

[Thiel]

Tax Freedom Day was June 9 this year. One day later than it did last year. In other words, almost half of the year we work hard not to pay down our mortgages, not to buy food for our families or presents for our kids, but to pay the tax man. And the higher your income, it's even later in the year.



And it continues. Toronto Mayor John Tory is considering a hotel tax. Canadians outside of Toronto, who are visiting the city, will have to shell out some extra cash to the city whenever they stay in a hotel.



If the billions in provincial and federal deficits were instead brought into the budget as tax-financed spending, that would push Tax Freedom Day back another 11 days.



It's time governments across the country looked at our tax regime with a bit of perspective. It has a real impact on Canadian workers and families.



Yes, we receive services in exchange for the considerable tax dollars we fork over. But more needs to be done to deliver these services in a leaner and efficient manner.



Tax Freedom Day is not a reflection of the quality of the product, how much of it each of us receives, or whether we get our money's worth.



Taxes are too high.

[Anonymous]

This summer, Finance Minister Bill Morneau has proposed eliminating many of the tax concessions employed by entrepreneurs and farmers to help them make up for the lack of benefits, pensions and job security salaried employees take for granted.



Because they have to save for their own retirements and pay their own health benefits, because they get no paid vacations, sick days, overtime or severance, and because they are constantly at risk of losing everything (including their homes), governments have typically allowed entrepreneurs and agricultural producers more write-offs than other taxpayers.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Anonymous]

In most provinces, more than 50 per cent of our tax dollars finance generous pay for government employees. In fact, government employees, on average, receive 10.6 per cent higher wages than comparable private-sector workers doing similar work. And that's on top of the much more generous non-wage benefits (pension coverage, job security, early retirement) the government sector also enjoys. Of course, we need qualified and well-paid government workers, but is this pay and benefit premium the best use of our tax dollars?



In the case of health care, which consumes around 40 per cent of most provincial budgets and is a fast-growing expense, international comparisons show that, despite high levels of spending, Canadians have comparatively poor access to technology and doctors, and endure longer wait times for surgery. It's hard to see how we get good value for our money in public health care when measured against other countries that also offer universal access.



Most troubling is when our tax dollars are outright wasted on boondoggles and failed government programs. A recent study documented more than 600 cases where the federal government failed to meet its own objectives over a 25-year period, resulting in up to $197 billion of wasted tax money.



Bottom line — we need a robust public debate about the overall tax burden and whether we're getting our money's worth.

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/taxes-the-average-canadian-familys-largest-expense">http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... st-expense">http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/taxes-the-average-canadian-familys-largest-expense



Yes, we need a robust discussion about value for the sky high taxes we pay. But, sadly we can be certain federal and provincial civil services will spare no expense blocking any moves in that direction.

[RW]

In most provinces, more than 50 per cent of our tax dollars finance generous pay for government employees. In fact, government employees, on average, receive 10.6 per cent higher wages than comparable private-sector workers doing similar work. And that's on top of the much more generous non-wage benefits (pension coverage, job security, early retirement) the government sector also enjoys. Of course, we need qualified and well-paid government workers, but is this pay and benefit premium the best use of our tax dollars?



In the case of health care, which consumes around 40 per cent of most provincial budgets and is a fast-growing expense, international comparisons show that, despite high levels of spending, Canadians have comparatively poor access to technology and doctors, and endure longer wait times for surgery. It's hard to see how we get good value for our money in public health care when measured against other countries that also offer universal access.



Most troubling is when our tax dollars are outright wasted on boondoggles and failed government programs. A recent study documented more than 600 cases where the federal government failed to meet its own objectives over a 25-year period, resulting in up to $197 billion of wasted tax money.



Bottom line — we need a robust public debate about the overall tax burden and whether we're getting our money's worth.

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/taxes-the-average-canadian-familys-largest-expense">http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... st-expense">http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/taxes-the-average-canadian-familys-largest-expense



Yes, we need a robust discussion about value for the sky high taxes we pay. But, sadly we can be certain federal and provincial civil services will spare no expense blocking any moves in that direction.

People being well paid and having pensions isn't a bad thing.  Unionized workers, which most government service employees are, generally make more than non-unionized workers.



Our healthcare system isn't easily compared to others.  We have a HUGE geographical mass with a small population.  That poses logistical issues with the delivery of quality care.  The only comparable would be Australia and they have a two tiered system.



There is oodles of government waste and a lot of room to streamline government.  No one is doing it though and I think that has a lot to do with the massive job loss it will create.  There are also a lot of opportunities for private-public partnerships that could offset costs, like having companies rent space in hospitals to sell food and products, amoung other things.



I used to work in community development and I can tell you, combining office space and sharing office resources between government agencies would save a ton alone.



The thing that gets me is why people bitch about wages of employees but no one bitches about expense accounts or elected officials who work a mere 8 years and retire with full pensions.  Do you know how much we spend on food and booze at functions alone?  No one gets incensed about car allowances, swanky hotels, first class flights, but you'll(vous) happily advocate that the mom down the street loses her bean counting gov job.  I just don't get it.