NEW NFL POLICY: Players Must ‘Stand and Show Respect for the Flag ’ or be FINED [Or Stay in the Locker Room]

[Wazzzup]

With a somewhat red face, I stand with Peaches on this...for different reasons.



It is vital in our society that we preserve the ever dwindling freedom to express our views, whether or not they are agreeable to the population at large. It is why, for example, I will stand by Scouse for him to speak plainly even though I don't always agree, and that I also lauded Romero for standing up for his beliefs, even though they contradicted my own most of the time.



If these guys wish to make a political stand, who cares? It is more important for us ALL to live in a society where they CAN, rather than get butt hurt because we disagree.



Stifling freedom of speech and expression damages a society far more than people expressing that freedom of speech will ever do. And how often does history provide examples of "patriotism" being a tool of repression of that right?



They have an issue. Let them raise that issue. Agree, or disagree. Then get on with the game.

As much as I dislike black lives matter rhetoric I would not want to silence it.  But these football players aren't being denied free speech, they can say whatever they want.  They just can't do it on the field during gametime.  



(Again I renew my question) if players went around carrying signs that say "black lives matter is full of crap" during the game would the left object?  



OTOH The real free speech, that really was taken away, was the way several cops were fired, suspended and/or reprimanded  for criticising black lives matter and the NFL kneetakers (most while not even on the job.)  Those people truly had their speech taken away, unlike NFL players, who can say whatever they want, just not on the field at gametime.

[Bricktop]

Its a tricky one, I agree.



Cops, unfortunately, are precluded from making critical statements that may imply or prove personal bias.



It seems just another symptom of the chronic ailment America suffers. Racial disintegration.



And its not alone in the regard.

[Wazzzup]

Here is an analogy with a question attached--



one day a McDonald's employee, before saying welcome to mcdonalds to a customer,  says "blue lives matter" and salutes.



The news covers it and soon a lot of McDonald's employees, not a majority, but many start doing the same.



But then the report comes-- in sales are down people are complaining, many are advocating a boycott.  What should McDonalds do?

[Bricktop]

No, I get it. As I said, its tricky. Its an American issue in the end, and we in other parts should probably avoid comment.



If this happened in Oz, no fucks would be given. People would be screaming for them to get on with the game.

[Anonymous]

With a somewhat red face, I stand with Peaches on this...for different reasons.



It is vital in our society that we preserve the ever dwindling freedom to express our views, whether or not they are agreeable to the population at large. It is why, for example, I will stand by Scouse for him to speak plainly even though I don't always agree, and that I also lauded Romero for standing up for his beliefs, even though they contradicted my own most of the time.



If these guys wish to make a political stand, who cares? It is more important for us ALL to live in a society where they CAN, rather than get butt hurt because we disagree.



Stifling freedom of speech and expression damages a society far more than people expressing that freedom of speech will ever do. And how often does history provide examples of "patriotism" being a tool of repression of that right?



They have an issue. Let them raise that issue. Agree, or disagree. Then get on with the game.

As much as I dislike black lives matter rhetoric I would not want to silence it.  But these football players aren't being denied free speech, they can say whatever they want.  They just can't do it on the field during gametime.  



(Again I renew my question) if players went around carrying signs that say "black lives matter is full of crap" during the game would the left object?  



OTOH The real free speech, that really was taken away, was the way several cops were fired, suspended and/or reprimanded  for criticising black lives matter and the NFL kneetakers (most while not even on the job.)  Those people truly had their speech taken away, unlike NFL players, who can say whatever they want, just not on the field at gametime.

A big double standard and no surprise there. Narcissistic entertainers can say all the stupid shit they want, ON THEIR OWN TIME.



Ms Peaches doesn't like sports. Ya, that's breaking news.

[Angry White Male]

OTOH The real free speech, that really was taken away, was the way several cops were fired, suspended and/or reprimanded

Although probably not completely intentional, this scene from 'Superbad' sort of touches on this, in a slapstick sort of way...

[Anonymous]

Ms Peaches doesn't like sports. Ya, that's breaking news.

Amazing.



All the valid points raised by several posters in the thread, and Herm weighs in with ^^^ THIS gem, which is both untrue and completely irrelevant to ANY of said points.   :001_rolleyes:



One last thought on this topic.



https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18622459_618805248324545_8175377284036403092_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fb8f6b2f85010622a2cd80fed3465390&oe=5BC2AB6B">

[Wazzzup]

Ms Peaches doesn't like sports. Ya, that's breaking news.

Amazing.



All the valid points raised by several posters in the thread, and Herm weighs in with ^^^ THIS gem, which is both untrue and completely irrelevant to ANY of said points.   :001_rolleyes:



One last thought on this topic.



https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18622459_618805248324545_8175377284036403092_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fb8f6b2f85010622a2cd80fed3465390&oe=5BC2AB6B">

In the US the poor have medicaid.  colleges offer scholarships, (I know full well because my son attends northwestern on several scholarships.  We wouldn't be able to afford it without them). As far as picking up? I don't know what Herr Bottiger is talking about.



BTW a lot of liberals in the US advocate for higher taxes and then try to get out of paying them as much as possible.  Several celebs and lib pols have been caught.  That seems a lot more like hypocrisy than patriotism

BTW2 Also america didn't have a leader who let in a million Muslims and then re-elected her.  That's not patriotism, that's just incredibly stupid.

BTW3 And don't even get me started on what Germans have done to free speech.

[Anonymous]

Ms Peaches doesn't like sports. Ya, that's breaking news.

Amazing.



All the valid points raised by several posters in the thread, and Herm weighs in with ^^^ THIS gem, which is both untrue and completely irrelevant to ANY of said points.   :001_rolleyes:



One last thought on this topic.



https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18622459_618805248324545_8175377284036403092_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fb8f6b2f85010622a2cd80fed3465390&oe=5BC2AB6B">

In the US the poor have medicaid.  colleges offer scholarships, (I know full well because my son attends northwestern on several scholarships.  We wouldn't be able to afford it without them). As far as picking up? I don't know what Herr Bottiger is talking about.



BTW a lot of liberals in the US advocate for higher taxes and then try to get out of paying them as much as possible.  Several celebs and lib pols have been caught.  That seems a lot more like hypocrisy than patriotism

BTW2 Also america didn't have a leader who let in a million Muslims and then re-elected her.  That's not patriotism, that's just incredibly stupid.

BTW3 And don't even get me started on what Germans have done to free speech.

Progs are hypocrites.

[Anonymous]

Show patriotism by voting for higher taxes....wow..



I guess our prime minister must be the most patriotic person in this country.

[Bricktop]

In a sense its true.



Canada and Australia willingly accept the cost of universal health care and education. Yet we don't fly flags and pat ourselves on the back for being born in either country.



The US has no universal health care as I understand it, and education fee debt is in the billions. I think I'd rather we show our loyalty to our nation by supporting the good things it does, rather than pretend.

[Wazzzup]

In a sense its true.



Canada and Australia willingly accept the cost of universal health care and education. Yet we don't fly flags and pat ourselves on the back for being born in either country.



The US has no universal health care as I understand it, and education fee debt is in the billions. I think I'd rather we show our loyalty to our nation by supporting the good things it does, rather than pretend.

LOL Well if socialism is patriotic, Venezuela has you beat.  I prefer freedom.

[Angry White Male]

Canadian healthcare isn't as great as outsiders may think.  My stepfather's brother, born in Ontario, ended up marrying a school teacher from the US, and he now lives in Indiana.



When he was visiting a couple of years ago, I asked him his opinion on both healthcare systems, as he has direct knowledge with both.  He believes the US system is superior.

[Bricktop]

Canadian healthcare isn't as great as outsiders may think.  My stepfather's brother, born in Ontario, ended up marrying a school teacher from the US, and he now lives in Indiana.



When he was visiting a couple of years ago, I asked him his opinion on both healthcare systems, as he has direct knowledge with both.  He believes the US system is superior.

As long as you can afford it...that's the difference. Quality wise, I'm sure the US is a world leader, as long as you are wealthy, or at least employed.



Even then, their insurance companies are assholes in settling claims.



The difference between ours (Canada and Australia) is everyone gets health care, and it is still of a high standard. True, welchers get more than they deserve, but better that than turning people away from medical support because they have no money.

[Wazzzup]

Canadian healthcare isn't as great as outsiders may think.  My stepfather's brother, born in Ontario, ended up marrying a school teacher from the US, and he now lives in Indiana.



When he was visiting a couple of years ago, I asked him his opinion on both healthcare systems, as he has direct knowledge with both.  He believes the US system is superior.

As long as you can afford it...that's the difference. Quality wise, I'm sure the US is a world leader, as long as you are wealthy, or at least employed.



Even then, their insurance companies are assholes in settling claims.



The difference between ours (Canada and Australia) is everyone gets health care, and it is still of a high standard. True, welchers get more than they deserve, but better that than turning people away from medical support because they have no money.

In the US Medicaid covers people at 150% of the poverty level. Medicare covers all senior citizens (over 65) And no one is refused emergency service.  



BTW government health care will cost more.  



BTW2 why not have the government pay for car insurance?  Why just health?