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 Post subject: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 7:41 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 10:25 pm
Posts: 41385
The People's Liberation Army is mobilizing equipment and personnel in the neighbouring mainland city of Shenzhen.
:ohmy:
All eyes on Hong Kong protesters as China ramps up rhetoric
The Chinese territory gears up for 11th weekend of anti-government protests as Beijing masses forces at border.

Hong Kong - As Hong Kong gears up for another weekend of mass demonstrations, all eyes are on the protesters' next moves after an airport occupation last weekend turned ugly and drew the ire of mainland China.

Four demonstrations unsanctioned by the police are slated for Saturday as the semi-autonomous territory is set to enter its 11th week of anti-government protests amid a political crisis that was sparked by a now-shelved bill to allow criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The protesters' actions on Friday kicked off with calls for a mass cash withdrawal which turned out to be less disruptive than anticipated.

Andy Chan, the head of the now-banned pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, had called on protesters to withdraw money in order to disrupt the economy of the major international finance hub and gateway to China.

Since the escalation, China has moved thousands of paramilitary police to the border near the former British colony, disseminating images and videos of the troops doing anti-riot drills.

Beijing has also ramped up its rhetoric, saying protesters in Hong Kong showed signs of "terrorism", while Liu Xiaoming, China's ambassador to the United Kingdom, warned that the Chinese government had "enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest" should things became "uncontrollable".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/ ... 44534.html


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 7:56 pm 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 8:12 pm
Posts: 20985
Fashionista wrote:
The People's Liberation Army is mobilizing equipment and personnel in the neighbouring mainland city of Shenzhen.
:ohmy:
All eyes on Hong Kong protesters as China ramps up rhetoric
The Chinese territory gears up for 11th weekend of anti-government protests as Beijing masses forces at border.

Hong Kong - As Hong Kong gears up for another weekend of mass demonstrations, all eyes are on the protesters' next moves after an airport occupation last weekend turned ugly and drew the ire of mainland China.

Four demonstrations unsanctioned by the police are slated for Saturday as the semi-autonomous territory is set to enter its 11th week of anti-government protests amid a political crisis that was sparked by a now-shelved bill to allow criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The protesters' actions on Friday kicked off with calls for a mass cash withdrawal which turned out to be less disruptive than anticipated.

Andy Chan, the head of the now-banned pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, had called on protesters to withdraw money in order to disrupt the economy of the major international finance hub and gateway to China.

Since the escalation, China has moved thousands of paramilitary police to the border near the former British colony, disseminating images and videos of the troops doing anti-riot drills.

Beijing has also ramped up its rhetoric, saying protesters in Hong Kong showed signs of "terrorism", while Liu Xiaoming, China's ambassador to the United Kingdom, warned that the Chinese government had "enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest" should things became "uncontrollable".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/ ... 44534.html

About two thirds of the foreign direct investment in China goes through Hong Kong. Beijing will not tolerate instability indefinitely. However, going in with tanks is an absolute last resort.

_________________
The Iron Chink!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 8:39 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 11:55 pm
Posts: 593
I no like the protests in Vancouver. We have nothing to do with China or Hong Kong. Some people are making it a big deal here.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 8:43 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 10:25 pm
Posts: 41385
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
I no like the protests in Vancouver. We have nothing to do with China or Hong Kong. Some people are making it a big deal here.

I don't like being caught in the middle of protests either TVG..

I haven't seen much yet in Calgary.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 9:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: November 17th, 2012, 4:01 pm
Posts: 12755
Shen Li wrote:
Fashionista wrote:
The People's Liberation Army is mobilizing equipment and personnel in the neighbouring mainland city of Shenzhen.
:ohmy:
All eyes on Hong Kong protesters as China ramps up rhetoric
The Chinese territory gears up for 11th weekend of anti-government protests as Beijing masses forces at border.

Hong Kong - As Hong Kong gears up for another weekend of mass demonstrations, all eyes are on the protesters' next moves after an airport occupation last weekend turned ugly and drew the ire of mainland China.

Four demonstrations unsanctioned by the police are slated for Saturday as the semi-autonomous territory is set to enter its 11th week of anti-government protests amid a political crisis that was sparked by a now-shelved bill to allow criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The protesters' actions on Friday kicked off with calls for a mass cash withdrawal which turned out to be less disruptive than anticipated.

Andy Chan, the head of the now-banned pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, had called on protesters to withdraw money in order to disrupt the economy of the major international finance hub and gateway to China.

Since the escalation, China has moved thousands of paramilitary police to the border near the former British colony, disseminating images and videos of the troops doing anti-riot drills.

Beijing has also ramped up its rhetoric, saying protesters in Hong Kong showed signs of "terrorism", while Liu Xiaoming, China's ambassador to the United Kingdom, warned that the Chinese government had "enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest" should things became "uncontrollable".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/ ... 44534.html

About two thirds of the foreign direct investment in China goes through Hong Kong. Beijing will not tolerate instability indefinitely. However, going in with tanks is an absolute last resort.

I don't believe China will do anything that could further weaken their already slowing economy. The Trump tariffs are having a negative impact on China's GDP.

_________________
A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. Friedrich August von Hayek


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 9:07 pm 
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Joined: January 25th, 2013, 4:29 pm
Posts: 11289
I´ll volunteer for the war..

Just to get myself a chinese wife..


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 9:15 pm 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 8:12 pm
Posts: 20985
seoulbro wrote:
Shen Li wrote:
Fashionista wrote:
The People's Liberation Army is mobilizing equipment and personnel in the neighbouring mainland city of Shenzhen.
:ohmy:
All eyes on Hong Kong protesters as China ramps up rhetoric
The Chinese territory gears up for 11th weekend of anti-government protests as Beijing masses forces at border.

Hong Kong - As Hong Kong gears up for another weekend of mass demonstrations, all eyes are on the protesters' next moves after an airport occupation last weekend turned ugly and drew the ire of mainland China.

Four demonstrations unsanctioned by the police are slated for Saturday as the semi-autonomous territory is set to enter its 11th week of anti-government protests amid a political crisis that was sparked by a now-shelved bill to allow criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The protesters' actions on Friday kicked off with calls for a mass cash withdrawal which turned out to be less disruptive than anticipated.

Andy Chan, the head of the now-banned pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, had called on protesters to withdraw money in order to disrupt the economy of the major international finance hub and gateway to China.

Since the escalation, China has moved thousands of paramilitary police to the border near the former British colony, disseminating images and videos of the troops doing anti-riot drills.

Beijing has also ramped up its rhetoric, saying protesters in Hong Kong showed signs of "terrorism", while Liu Xiaoming, China's ambassador to the United Kingdom, warned that the Chinese government had "enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest" should things became "uncontrollable".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/ ... 44534.html

About two thirds of the foreign direct investment in China goes through Hong Kong. Beijing will not tolerate instability indefinitely. However, going in with tanks is an absolute last resort.

I don't believe China will do anything that could further weaken their already slowing economy. The Trump tariffs are having a negative impact on China's GDP.

There's a lot that Trump has done that I like. However, the tariff war with China is not one of them. China is not like Western countries that only think to the next election. They have a long term game plan. They will wait Trump out. In fact, I would say they will interfere for the Democratic candidate next year.

_________________
The Iron Chink!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 16th, 2019, 9:51 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 10:25 pm
Posts: 41385
I hope the military build up beside Hong Kong is only for intimidation.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 7:48 am 
User avatar

Joined: July 20th, 2015, 7:24 pm
Posts: 16375
Shen Li wrote:
seoulbro wrote:
Shen Li wrote:
Fashionista wrote:
The People's Liberation Army is mobilizing equipment and personnel in the neighbouring mainland city of Shenzhen.
:ohmy:
All eyes on Hong Kong protesters as China ramps up rhetoric
The Chinese territory gears up for 11th weekend of anti-government protests as Beijing masses forces at border.

Hong Kong - As Hong Kong gears up for another weekend of mass demonstrations, all eyes are on the protesters' next moves after an airport occupation last weekend turned ugly and drew the ire of mainland China.

Four demonstrations unsanctioned by the police are slated for Saturday as the semi-autonomous territory is set to enter its 11th week of anti-government protests amid a political crisis that was sparked by a now-shelved bill to allow criminal suspects to be sent to mainland China for trial.

The protesters' actions on Friday kicked off with calls for a mass cash withdrawal which turned out to be less disruptive than anticipated.

Andy Chan, the head of the now-banned pro-independence Hong Kong National Party, had called on protesters to withdraw money in order to disrupt the economy of the major international finance hub and gateway to China.

Since the escalation, China has moved thousands of paramilitary police to the border near the former British colony, disseminating images and videos of the troops doing anti-riot drills.

Beijing has also ramped up its rhetoric, saying protesters in Hong Kong showed signs of "terrorism", while Liu Xiaoming, China's ambassador to the United Kingdom, warned that the Chinese government had "enough solutions and enough power to swiftly quell unrest" should things became "uncontrollable".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/ ... 44534.html

About two thirds of the foreign direct investment in China goes through Hong Kong. Beijing will not tolerate instability indefinitely. However, going in with tanks is an absolute last resort.

I don't believe China will do anything that could further weaken their already slowing economy. The Trump tariffs are having a negative impact on China's GDP.

There's a lot that Trump has done that I like. However, the tariff war with China is not one of them. China is not like Western countries that only think to the next election. They have a long term game plan. They will wait Trump out. In fact, I would say they will interfere for the Democratic candidate next year.

I understand what he is trying to do. Bush and Obama knew China was cheating and neither of them had the stones to confront the Chinks. But, like you said, because of their political system, China has the advantage here. They will wait until there's another globalist democRAT in the white house that they control like a circus monkey.

_________________
prairie redneck.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 10:19 am 
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Joined: November 17th, 2012, 4:01 pm
Posts: 12755
What Canada can do about Hong Kong

In recent weeks, the daily flow of young protesters getting tear gassed, truncheoned, fired at and assailed by anti-riot police and violent triad members on Hong Kong’s streets, in its MTR stations and at its shopping malls has grabbed headlines worldwide, sparking a crisis for the Chinese leadership unlike any it has faced since Tiananmen Square in 1989.

What started as a protest against a controversial extradition bill has mutated into a rising act of defiance against the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the “one country, two systems” formula, under which Hong Kong was incorporated into the People’s Republic of China in 1997. Young activists and a large swath of society behind them are now openly challenging Beijing’s writ in Hong Kong and are willing to take risks to defend their way of life.

Beijing has launched a campaign to discredit the protesters as “rioters,” even suggesting that some of their actions constitute “terrorism” — a term the Party has normally used to describe resistance in majority-Muslim Xinjiang and the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests. China has also signalled that the People’s Armed Police (PAP), and, in the extreme, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) garrisoned in Hong Kong could become involved.

Beijing cannot — and will not — back down, as this could lead to similar appeals by other minorities in China and directly challenge the CCP’s grip on Chinese society. Unless the protesters back down (only temporarily, as the underlying issues will not have been addressed), Beijing and its proxies in Hong Kong will remain committed to an escalatory policy of repression.

Knowing this, what can Canada do to prevent excesses, if not a bloodbath, and ensure Hong Kong residents can defend their rights and freedoms? So far, our government’s response has been disappointing and, at best, inconsistent. Canada can, and should, do more.

The situation calls for Canada to join and co-ordinate with other democracies in condemning police excesses in Hong Kong and calling for an independent inquiry into the matter. Ottawa should hold Beijing and Hong Kong authorities to account for violating their commitments and responsibilities under the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration and Hong Kong’s Basic Law. It should also call for the complete removal of the extradition bill and for the release of unfairly detained protesters.

The Canadian government should avoid adopting Beijing’s propaganda which refers to the protesters as “rioters” and should not legitimize claims to a moral equivalence between the two sides. It should also firmly condemn Beijing’s claim that the protesters have engaged in terrorism, while nevertheless encouraging protesters to continue to adhere to peaceful strategies.

Ottawa must also ensure that Hong Kong students and their supporters on campuses nationwide can organize events without risks of intimidation or physical attack by their Chinese counterparts. With the Hong Kong crisis going global, law enforcement must look after the safety of people of Hong Kong origin who reside in Canada, as some of them may become targets of intimidation and retaliation by CCP proxies.

Finally, in concert with other countries, Canada should also be ready to impose targeted sanctions or travel bans against Hong Hong and/or CCP officials who are complicit in police brutality against peaceful protesters, especially if a PAP/PLA deployment in Hong Kong were to materialize. Ottawa should also make necessary preparations to offer assistance to imperilled Hong Kong residents seeking asylum in Canada. In a co-ordinated warning to Beijing, Canada must state that a PAP/PLA crackdown in Hong Kong would carry serious consequences for the CCP.

Given the severity of the situation and the potential for serious harm, rhetoric alone will unlikely change Beijing’s behaviour. Canada and like-minded allies must be prepared to respond should Beijing decide to act on its authoritarian instincts in Hong Kong.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... -hong-kong

This could not have come at a worse time for the global economy. And with Beijing punishing us for not interfering in the Huawei executive case, it puts this country between a rock and a hard place.

_________________
A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. Friedrich August von Hayek


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 10:44 am 
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Joined: July 20th, 2015, 7:24 pm
Posts: 16375
Quote:
Beijing cannot — and will not — back down, as this could lead to similar appeals by other minorities in China and directly challenge the CCP’s grip on Chinese society.

The Chinks aint going to let history repeat itself. Before the Tianamen massacre, anti government protests spread to four hundred cities across China.

_________________
prairie redneck.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 12:46 pm 
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Joined: May 15th, 2016, 4:21 pm
Posts: 1255
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
I no like the protests in Vancouver. We have nothing to do with China or Hong Kong. Some people are making it a big deal here.

Are they all over the city or concentrated in one area?


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 4:13 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 11:55 pm
Posts: 593
Velvet wrote:
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
I no like the protests in Vancouver. We have nothing to do with China or Hong Kong. Some people are making it a big deal here.

Are they all over the city or concentrated in one area?

There was a protested at Broadway SkyTrain station. There's a wall at Simon Fraser university covered with hundreds of notes. Some Chinese guy in New Westminster writing stuff on the streets and stairwells. Trying to spread awareness and draw attention. People think we need to band together and support Hong Kong. Nobody trying to get us to care about other cities around the world. Hong Kong-ers must be more important.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 4:35 pm 
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Joined: April 24th, 2015, 7:57 pm
Posts: 24637
We tend to see this through western eyes...as we do with all things China and Russia. Our perception is that these monolithic dictatorships are omnipotent, and the West is ineffectual and powerless.

That is not the case.

As much as the West relies on China for cheap labour, China is now dependent on Western revenue. It is not a one way level of influence. Trump's sanctions are hurting China...and if they behave contrary to Western interests and values they risk even more pain.

Western money is the foundation of China's wealth. Without it, China would be in dire peril.

30 years ago, the tanks would have rolled in to Hong Kong weeks ago. Today, China must heed the consequences of military action on their own circumstances.

The West can absorb much more pain than China. We may experience disruption to our consumer goods...but China risks millions of workers no longer having jobs.

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Just because I don't agree with you, it does not mean I hate you


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 17th, 2019, 7:22 pm 

Joined: October 4th, 2012, 11:55 pm
Posts: 593
Today's protest in Vancouver. The Hong Kong supporters in black shirts vs China people in the red. I fear that this is gonna be a weekly thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 18th, 2019, 9:07 am 
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Joined: November 17th, 2012, 4:01 pm
Posts: 12755
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
Velvet wrote:
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
I no like the protests in Vancouver. We have nothing to do with China or Hong Kong. Some people are making it a big deal here.

Are they all over the city or concentrated in one area?

There was a protested at Broadway SkyTrain station. There's a wall at Simon Fraser university covered with hundreds of notes. Some Chinese guy in New Westminster writing stuff on the streets and stairwells. Trying to spread awareness and draw attention. People think we need to band together and support Hong Kong. Nobody trying to get us to care about other cities around the world. Hong Kong-ers must be more important.

I would assume the same actions are happening down in Toronto.

_________________
A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. Friedrich August von Hayek


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 18th, 2019, 9:25 am 
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Joined: November 17th, 2012, 4:01 pm
Posts: 12755
I am hardly an expert on the grievances between HK and the mainland. I read this article that summarizes the situation. If it's wrong, perhaps Fash, SL, Zetsu or TVG can better explain it.

Why hong Kong is in turmoil
Extradition bill sparked protests in former British colony


Over the last few months, Hong Kong — a denselypopulated financial centre that is a key influence on the world’s economy — has devolved into sometimes-chaotic scenes of violence.

What started as protests during weekends has turned into near-daily disruptions that includes sit-ins, occupations, blockades, strikes and riots.

the objective? to stop the passage of an extradition bill that could force citizens arrested in Hong Kong, a former British colony, to be transported to mainland China to face justice. the impetus of the extradition bill came in 2018, when a man from Hong Kong was alleged to have killed his pregnant girlfriend while in taiwan. after he flew back to Hong Kong, taiwan was unable to extradite him because there was no agreement in place between the two territories for his transfer.

Hong Kong also does not have an extradition law with either mainland China or Macau — another former colony under Portuguese rule until 1999.

the Hong Kong government proposed legislation earlier this year to close this legal loophole, but residents worry the territory is opening itself up to the long — and often harsh — arm of Chinese law, which is controlled politically in Beijing.

RECENT history

after the united Kingdom handed the territory back to China in 1997 following 156 years of British rule, Hong Kong was made a special administrative region with its own laws, a “one country, two systems” arrangement that eased its transfer to the most populous country on the planet.

the Basic Law of Hong Kong gives citizens living in the territory the constitutional right to participate in local elections, which is enshrined for 50 years after its transfer to China.

Residents, who consider themselves Hong Kongers instead of Chinese, are also guaranteed freedom of speech, the right to a free press, and the right to protest.

Extradition Bill

Officially known as the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (amendment) Bill 2019, the proposed legislation seeks to make arrangements for those accused of crimes to be extradited between Hong Kong and anywhere outside the territory. the bill was proposed in the Hong Kong legislature in February and had its first reading in april. Carrie Lam, Chief Executive of Hong Kong and backed by China’s political leaders, faced massive backlash to the bill’s introduction in early June but continued to support the proposed extradition amendment.

Protesters then demanded Lam’s resignation for continuing to push ahead with the bill. In response, Lam blamed protest organizers for the intense clashes with police that broke out before she backed down June 15 and announced a pause in the bill’s passage during massive street protests.

the next day, organizers claimed nearly two million people marched and demanded the bill be withdrawn and Lam resign. Hong Kong’s embattled leader released a statement apologizing for the turmoil the bill had caused and said that there would be no further push to make the bill law. On June 18, Lam held a press conference and apologized to the people of Hong Kong, acknowledging that “deficiencies in the government’s work had led to substantial controversies and disputes in society.”

_________________
A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. Friedrich August von Hayek


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 18th, 2019, 9:48 am 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 8:12 pm
Posts: 20985
TheVancouverGuy wrote:
Today's protest in Vancouver. The Hong Kong supporters in black shirts vs China people in the red. I fear that this is gonna be a weekly thing.

Is it affecting how you get around Twee? Slowing traffic, blocking sidewalks and so on? I'd tire of that in a hurry.

_________________
The Iron Chink!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 18th, 2019, 9:49 am 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 8:12 pm
Posts: 20985
It has been interesting to see the Hong Kong protests evolve from students opposing a piece of legislation (extradition to China bill), to some kind of ad-hoc democracy movement that desires increased democratic voting rights and less influence from mainland China. Not to burst their ideological bubble, but Hong Kong protesters should think twice about believing that western democracy is some kind of model to be emulated. Between their shrill screams at the Hong Kong airport, they might want to pause and consider that a democratically won Brexit has been undermined by a political cabal that believes it knows better, and that in the United States a democratically elected president has been systematically undermined rather than waiting for the next democratic election to kick him out of office. Democracy is a slippery mess. On the one hand, we all fret about whether our vote counts, how important it is to participate in the process, yet democratic institutions have been perverted into devaluing some votes in favour of others. True democracy is allowing the majority to make a decision, even if it turns out to be the wrong one, so that everyone can learn from it and reverse it at the next election if necessary. The minute we allow or accept that small groups are entitled to thwart the will of the majority, we undermine the very purpose of democracy to the point where our Western elections are probably as much of a charade as Chinese ones. Or Hong Kong ones.

_________________
The Iron Chink!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hong Kong protests
Unread postPosted: August 18th, 2019, 10:34 am 
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Joined: November 17th, 2012, 4:01 pm
Posts: 12755
Shen Li wrote:
It has been interesting to see the Hong Kong protests evolve from students opposing a piece of legislation (extradition to China bill), to some kind of ad-hoc democracy movement that desires increased democratic voting rights and less influence from mainland China. Not to burst their ideological bubble, but Hong Kong protesters should think twice about believing that western democracy is some kind of model to be emulated. Between their shrill screams at the Hong Kong airport, they might want to pause and consider that a democratically won Brexit has been undermined by a political cabal that believes it knows better, and that in the United States a democratically elected president has been systematically undermined rather than waiting for the next democratic election to kick him out of office. Democracy is a slippery mess. On the one hand, we all fret about whether our vote counts, how important it is to participate in the process, yet democratic institutions have been perverted into devaluing some votes in favour of others. True democracy is allowing the majority to make a decision, even if it turns out to be the wrong one, so that everyone can learn from it and reverse it at the next election if necessary. The minute we allow or accept that small groups are entitled to thwart the will of the majority, we undermine the very purpose of democracy to the point where our Western elections are probably as much of a charade as Chinese ones. Or Hong Kong ones.

Democracy needs reform, true dat.

_________________
A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers. Friedrich August von Hayek


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