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Re: Forum gossip thread by Herman

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The long term cost of lock downs

Started by Anonymous, June 13, 2020, 02:51:31 PM

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Anonymous

Democratic politicians have been studiously pushing back the goalposts for reopening businesses in their jurisdictions ever since the American people were told last March that a two- or four-week shutdown was necessary to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. Lately, the stated goalpost has been moved all the way back to "until a vaccine is widely available."



Now, one of the prime offenders, the disastrously ineffective governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, is even sounding the alarm that adhering to this goalpost will mean the total destruction of the American economy.

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1 ... tay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed

Anonymous

Not that I give a shit, but old Starbucks is the latest victim of our on and off lockdowns. Starbucks says its plan to close up to 300 coffee shops across Canada will be complete by the end of March.

Frood

Quote from: seoulbro post_id=397694 time=1610478115 user_id=114
Democratic politicians have been studiously pushing back the goalposts for reopening businesses in their jurisdictions ever since the American people were told last March that a two- or four-week shutdown was necessary to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. Lately, the stated goalpost has been moved all the way back to "until a vaccine is widely available."



Now, one of the prime offenders, the disastrously ineffective governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, is even sounding the alarm that adhering to this goalpost will mean the total destruction of the American economy.

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1 ... tay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed


Everything that comes out of the mouth of that guy is shit...
Blahhhhhh...

Anonymous

Quote from: seoulbro post_id=397694 time=1610478115 user_id=114
Democratic politicians have been studiously pushing back the goalposts for reopening businesses in their jurisdictions ever since the American people were told last March that a two- or four-week shutdown was necessary to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. Lately, the stated goalpost has been moved all the way back to "until a vaccine is widely available."



Now, one of the prime offenders, the disastrously ineffective governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, is even sounding the alarm that adhering to this goalpost will mean the total destruction of the American economy.

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1 ... tay-closed">https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1348673192609591296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1348673192609591296%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Fandrew-cuomo-admits-cannot-stay-closed

Yes.

Anonymous

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuJgRKIwzro&feature=emb_logo">
... e=emb_logo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuJgRKIwzro&feature=emb_logo[/media]

Anonymous

New international study says coronavirus lockdowns not more effective than voluntary measures, not needed to slow the spread

https://www.theblaze.com/news/study--coronavirus-lockdowns-not-more-effective?utm_source=theblaze-breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210115Trending-Lockdowns&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Breaking%20News">https://www.theblaze.com/news/study--co ... ing%20News">https://www.theblaze.com/news/study--coronavirus-lockdowns-not-more-effective?utm_source=theblaze-breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210115Trending-Lockdowns&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Breaking%20News



A new international study examining the effectiveness of state-mandated coronavirus lockdowns compared to other voluntary pandemic safety measures found that the lockdowns were no better at stopping the spread of coronavirus than less restrictive measures, like social distancing or reducing travel.



The peer-reviewed study, which Newsweek reported was published on Jan. 5 in the Wiley Online Library, examined how the virus spread in 10 countries in early 2020.



The study examined virus cases in countries that used "non-pharmaceutical interventions" — the academic term for lockdown policies — to those that did not. Researchers examined cases from England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, and the United States, which all imposed lockdowns in early 2020, to two countries that decided to use less intrusive, voluntary social-distancing measures — South Korea and Sweden. The aim of the study was to examine whether policies that closed businesses and forced people to stay in their homes were as effective as less restrictive policies to contain the spread of the virus.



To calculate this, the authors of the study used a mathematical model that subtracted "the sum of non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI) effects and epidemic dynamics in countries that did not enact more restrictive non-pharmaceutical interventions (mrNPIs) from the sum of NPI effects and epidemic dynamics in countries that did."



According to their analysis, "there is no evidence that more restrictive non-pharmaceutical interventions ('lockdowns') contributed substantially to bending the curve of new cases" in countries that imposed lockdowns.



While lockdown policies may provide some benefits that voluntary measures do not, the study found that these benefits are not significantly better, and the harms imposed by lockdowns, "including hunger, opioid-related overdoses, missed vaccinations, increase in non-COVID diseases from missed health services, domestic abuse, mental health and suicidality, as well as a host of economic consequences with health implications."



While the study found "no evidence of large anti-contagion effects from mandatory stay-at-home and business closure policies," the researchers did note some important limitations to the underlying data and methods used in their research. The authors acknowledged that cross-country comparisons are difficult because nations have different rules, cultures, and relationships between the government and the citizenry. Additionally, some countries are better at providing coronavirus data than others. The study also relied on confirmed case counts for its analysis, which can be "a noisy measure of disease transmission."



Given these limitations, the researchers could not conclusively declare that lock down policies had no benefits whatsoever. "However, even if they exist, these benefits may not match the numerous harms of these aggressive measures. More targeted public health interventions that more effectively reduce transmission may be important for future epidemic control without the harms of highly restrictive measures," the study concluded.



Lockdown policies in the United States are highly controversial, with advocates pointing to studies that claim they have saved millions of lives and detractors arguing experience shows places with less restrictive policies fared no worse than areas that were locked down.



Last June, Reuters reported a study published by researchers at Imperial College London that compared estimated coronavirus deaths in several European countries to the actual number of deaths recorded, claiming that some 3.1 million deaths were averted because of the imposition of lockdowns.

Anonymous

From everything I've seen during the second wave, lock downs don't work like they did in March..



Across Europe and North America, we see the virus has spread too much for shutting down restuarants to have much affect.

Anonymous

Canada's economy will hit a major roadblock during the first quarter of 2021.



Many businesses already weakened by the first bout of the crisis will find it harder to survive the second wave," said Ksenia Bushmeneva, economist at TD.

Anonymous

https://scontent.fyxd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140644059_10157423191976364_3025133714336434425_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VZVqeRzGyGEAX_wTJtr&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd1-1.fna&oh=c3e455cbaebf524d85f2f0259b650a0e&oe=6030FD4B">

Anonymous

I'm worried what the country will look like even after we reach herd immunity..



Will small independent businesses be gone. Will only chains remain.



More than 200K small businesses could close permanently amid pandemic: CFIB



More than 200,000 Canadian small businesses could shut their doors permanently due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, jeopardizing close to three million private-sector jobs in the worst-case scenario, according to a recent survey by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB).



The organization estimates 181,000 small entrepreneurs are seriously considering closing down their businesses after a spike in case counts prompted a new wave of government lockdowns and restrictions.



The figure is based on responses from the CFIB's latest survey of its members, which was conducted between Jan. 12 and 16, and comes on top of Statistics Canada data showing the country lost nearly 58,000 active businesses in 2020.



"The more businesses that disappear, the more jobs we will lose and the harder it will be for the economy to recover," said Simon Gaudreault, CFIB's senior director of national research.


https://globalnews.ca/news/7590374/small-businesses-closure-canada-covid-19/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalBC&fbclid=IwAR186r0b0Z45slbJUZnaZN-LDAdD3bHTfc4fy-ul8TwwTkGnnkFZvftkFIU">https://globalnews.ca/news/7590374/smal ... kFZvftkFIU">https://globalnews.ca/news/7590374/small-businesses-closure-canada-covid-19/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalBC&fbclid=IwAR186r0b0Z45slbJUZnaZN-LDAdD3bHTfc4fy-ul8TwwTkGnnkFZvftkFIU

Anonymous

Quote from: Herman post_id=398719 time=1611286840 user_id=1689
https://scontent.fyxd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140644059_10157423191976364_3025133714336434425_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VZVqeRzGyGEAX_wTJtr&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd1-1.fna&oh=c3e455cbaebf524d85f2f0259b650a0e&oe=6030FD4B">

They don't matter.

Anonymous

Quote from: "iron horse jockey" post_id=398831 time=1611350881 user_id=2015
Quote from: Herman post_id=398719 time=1611286840 user_id=1689
https://scontent.fyxd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140644059_10157423191976364_3025133714336434425_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VZVqeRzGyGEAX_wTJtr&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd1-1.fna&oh=c3e455cbaebf524d85f2f0259b650a0e&oe=6030FD4B">

They don't matter.

The response to this pandemic in Western countries is causing as much pain and possibly death as the virus itself.

Gaon

Quote from: Herman post_id=398719 time=1611286840 user_id=1689
https://scontent.fyxd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140644059_10157423191976364_3025133714336434425_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VZVqeRzGyGEAX_wTJtr&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd1-1.fna&oh=c3e455cbaebf524d85f2f0259b650a0e&oe=6030FD4B">

They might never flatten.
The Russian Rock It

Anonymous

Pragmatism is extinct in the West. We keep doubling down on what doesn't work.


QuoteYet Another Study Shows—Yet Again—That Lockdowns Don't Work



Although advocates for covid-19 lockdowns continue to insist that they save lives, actual experience keeps suggesting otherwise.



On a national level, just eyeballing the data makes this clear. Countries that have implemented harsh lockdowns shouldn't expect to have comparatively lower numbers of covid-19 deaths per million.



In Italy and the United Kingdom, for example, where lockdowns have been repeatedly imposed, death totals per million remain among the worst in the world. Meanwhile, in the United States, states with with the most harsh lockdown rules—such as New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts are among the states with the worst total deaths.



Lockdown advocates, of course, are likely to argue that if researchers control for a variety of other variables, then we're sure to see that lockdowns have saved millions of lives. Yet research keeps showing us this simply isn't the case.



The latest study to show the weakness of the prolockdown position appeared this month in the European Journal of Clinical Investigation, authored by Eran Bendavid, Christopher Oh, Jay Bhattacharya, and John P.A. Ioannidis. Titled "Assessing Mandatory Stay-at-Home and Business Closure Effects on the Spread of COVID-19," the authors compare "more restrictive non-pharmaceutical interventions" (mrNPI) and "less restrictive non-pharmaceutical interventions" (lrNPI). More restrictive interventions include mandatory stay-at-home orders and forced business closures. Less restrictive measures include "social distancing guidelines, discouraging of international and domestic travel, and a ban on large gatherings." The researchers compare outcomes at the subnational level in a number of countries, including England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, and the United States. This is then compared against countries with less restrictive measures, primarily Sweden and South Korea, where stay-at-home orders and business closures were not widely implemented.



The conclusion:



We find no clear, significant beneficial effect of mrNPIs on case growth in any country....In none of the 8 countries and in none out of the 16 comparisons (against Sweden or South Korea) were the effects of mrNPIs significantly negative (beneficial). The point estimates were positive (point in the direction of mrNPIs resulting in increased daily growth in cases).



That is, the more restrictive lockdown measures pointed to worse outcomes.

https://mises.org/wire/yet-another-study-shows-yet-again-lockdowns-dont-work">https://mises.org/wire/yet-another-stud ... -dont-work">https://mises.org/wire/yet-another-study-shows-yet-again-lockdowns-dont-work

Anonymous

The governor of South Dakota would agree with old Shen Li.



Governor says South Dakota has 'perhaps the strongest economy' in US after refusing lockdown measures

https://www-washingtonexaminer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/governor-south-dakota-strongest-economy?_amp=true&fbclid=IwAR2rpxM0WB3aY6U7RqHLUBquSnArls6p3Q9DRfraCmWZ6DH8ImnqWs9Qqo8">https://www-washingtonexaminer-com.cdn. ... mnqWs9Qqo8">https://www-washingtonexaminer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/governor-south-dakota-strongest-economy?_amp=true&fbclid=IwAR2rpxM0WB3aY6U7RqHLUBquSnArls6p3Q9DRfraCmWZ6DH8ImnqWs9Qqo8