So DSM, tell me more about this "once saved permanently saved" stuff

[Frood]

Sounds like evolution didnt fix the problem. Bad defective evolution!

Only if evolution (under your creator's tutelage) doesn't see parts of the creator created mammal anatomy as a problem...

...like wisdom teeth, or gall bladders... or three stomachs on bovines... and since we're talking about mammals, why don't mammals get circumcised? Are we all not your creator's creations?

It's terribly arbitrary, tribal, and may I say asinine to apply different rules to different peoples and creatures.

[Frood]

I just love it when you gaytheists skip over the FACT! that "science" got PWN3D! on the universe always existing and then had to admit it was wrong, ending up agreeing with the Bible.

Thats always been a real a toughie for you people.

Wait.... gaytheists? "You people"?

I don't know nor care ultimately where you're pee sized penis carving personality puts me or any other people in perturbing partitions.... BUT, when did I ever agree that something "always" existed?

How the fuck would I know what always existed? .... except archaeology... texts... handed down camp-fire stories...

Which is a hell of a lot more substantial than 2000 years after some schizo faggot with 12 likeminded gay mates drank wine and had group orgies.. (not that there is anything wrong with imbibing or consensual sexual activity)

Jeebus Baby Christ... you're almost compelling me to accept deadskinmask 's flat earth theory by your very own logic... 

[Lokmar]

Only if evolution (under your creator's tutelage) doesn't see parts of the creator created mammal anatomy as a problem...

...like wisdom teeth, or gall bladders... or three stomachs on bovines... and since we're talking about mammals, why don't mammals get circumcised? Are we all not your creator's creations?

It's terribly arbitrary, tribal, and may I say asinine to apply different rules to different peoples and creatures.

Animals dont have free will and the option to follow moral directive's. Man is above animals. As God told us.

Groups of people who chose to reject God, werent chosen to be the standard bearers of His message for mankind.

[Lokmar]

Wait.... gaytheists? "You people"?

I don't know nor care ultimately where you're pee sized penis carving personality puts me or any other people in perturbing partitions.... BUT, when did I ever agree that something "always" existed?

How the fuck would I know what always existed? .... except archaeology... texts... handed down camp-fire stories...

Which is a hell of a lot more substantial than 2000 years after some schizo faggot with 12 likeminded gay mates drank wine and had group orgies.. (not that there is anything wrong with imbibing or consensual sexual activity)

Jeebus Baby Christ... you're almost compelling me to accept deadskinmask 's flat earth theory by your very own logic... 

Oh? so you deny that science taught that the universe always existed before having to admit it was wrong, ultimately adopting The Big Bang Theory? You certainly dont know your religion very well!

Maybe you're a reformed science believer? 

[Frood]

Animals dont have free will and the option to follow moral directive's. Man is above animals. As God told us.

Groups of people who chose to reject God, werent chosen to be the standard bearers of His message for mankind.

Which people's god or gods though... 

[Frood]

Oh? so you deny that science taught that the universe always existed before having to admit it was wrong, ultimately adopting The Big Bang Theory? You certainly dont know your religion very well!

Maybe you're a reformed science believer? 

Parochial school tried to teach me that a supreme being in 6-7 days created ALL.

I struggled with that every night as I was trying to get to sleep...

"If a god created everything...who created god? And who created god's god? And who created god's god's god... and who created god's god's god's god? And god's god's god's god's god's god's god?" (Ad infinitum)

Maybe I'm just rational and humble enough to realise there are no real answers... and you're not.

[deadskinmask]

before other things existed, God equipped us with certain parts.... the foreskin held precum and made additional lubrication for insertion.... as lubrication became more available, it was no longer needed.... we're also equipped with additional filters for digesting food and additional teeth for chewing.... none of these are no longer "needed" but since we are creatures of intelligent design (and evolution is not a real thing), these features were sidelined and now just sit quietly on our dna.... occasionally there will be a problem that REQUIRES surgical intervention.... but for the most part, there is no reason for concern.... however removing a foreskin is considered by some as a religious practice.... no different than a baptism or a bar mitzfah.... i'm circumcized.... it wasn't for religious purposes.... it was for esthetics and hygiene purposes.... BUT if you feel you were violated because nobody checked with you before trimming your traffic cone, thats too bad.... perhaps we should leave the umbilical cord attached as well.... since parents are responsible for feeding you into your young adult years, it would certainly make that alot easier.... i'm just happy my parents chose circumcision rather than abortion seeing that was also a choice they could have made.... lucky me....

[Lokmar]

Parochial school tried to teach me that a supreme being in 6-7 days created ALL.

I struggled with that every night as I was trying to get to sleep...

"If a god created everything...who created god? And who created god's god? And who created god's god's god... and who created god's god's god's god? And god's god's god's god's god's god's god?" (Ad infinitum)

Maybe I'm just rational and humble enough to realise there are no real answers... and you're not.

Well, right off the bat, if you read the Bible, it doesnt say 6-24 hour days. How could it? The sun doesnt exist until day 3. The Hebrew states that there were 6 ages. Every age brought further order out of chaos. Note that science asserts that the natural state of things is to do the opposite. The universe is roughly 13.5 to 15 billion years old and this in no way conflicts with the Bible. Physicist Gerald Schroeder has made many videos explaining this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Schroeder

Now, science still stubbornly insists that evolution slowly changed bacteria into humans when the fossil record shows that all forms of life came onto the stage very quickly. Eventually science will catch up with this Biblical claim just as it did with The Big Bang. Of course what it will never do is acknowledge that this was first stated in The Bible.

God is the only thing that always was and always has been. We cant relate because we are part of the Big Bang Universe which has a beginning and theoretically, will have an end. IMO, it will all implode on itself eventually. Black holes demonstrate to us the opposite of The Big Bang. God exists outside of The Big Bang.

As far as being humble, none of what I've ever said regarding these things comes from me. I am humble enough to submit to God and acknowledge that He and His Word is always right and its up to man to follow His path to understanding and the betterment of humanity.

[deadskinmask]

personally, i don't think earth is that old.... maybe 15 or 20 thousand years at most.... if yall looked at how unreliable and flawed carbon-dating actually is, i think yall would agree.... but 1 day in Gods time is approximately 1000 years in mans time....

[Dove]

personally, i don't think earth is that old.... maybe 15 or 20 thousand years at most.... if yall looked at how unreliable and flawed carbon-dating actually is, i think yall would agree.... but 1 day, in Gods time is approximately 1000 years in mans time....

 I agree about how old the earth is but the Bible says 1000 years is like a day to God...not that it is.

 I think that time is something we don't really understand and I just accept that there are things we aren't capable of understanding.

[deadskinmask]

I agree about how old the earth is but the Bible says 1000 years is like a day to God...not that it is.

 I think that time is something we don't really understand and I just accept that there are things we aren't capable of understanding.

i agree with you.... there are and always will be things we don't understand.... i'm okay with that.... i'm open to any ideas but ultimately i try to tie them back to the Bible....

[Lokmar]

personally, i don't think earth is that old.... maybe 15 or 20 thousand years at most.... if yall looked at how unreliable and flawed carbon-dating actually is, i think yall would agree.... but 1 day in Gods time is approximately 1000 years in mans time....

Agreed on the carbon dating. Its well documented that heat and pressure skews the numbers greatly.

None of us were around to see any of this so its not like anyone has 100% knowledge. I would highly recommend watching Gerald Schroeder's videos. You may be quite surprised and enlightened.

High level overview of who he is and his qualifications along with the theory 5 minutes:

The nitty gritty:

[Frood]

It's a gaggle of God bothereds ..

[Garraty_47]

It's a gaggle of God bothereds ..

Yeah, when the discussion/debate reaches the point of:

"Everything in the bible is 100% true and accurate."
"How do you know that?"
"IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE!"

...I'm out. lulz

[deadskinmask]

that would be fine were that actually the argument being made.... its not.... i have never used the Bible as a universal truth.... I BELIEVE IT WHOLEHEARTEDLY.... however, i do not present it as factual evidence.... its my own personal reference point and a litmus test for things i'm divided over.... thats all.... i don't push the Bible on anyone.... good ideas sell themselves....