I Do NOT Support Canada's Involvement In Iraq

[Anonymous]

I realize this is not the same as when Chretien got us involved in Afghanistan. However, in principle I strongly disgree with the West sticking it's collective nose into the affairs of sovereign nations. This usually comes back to bite the West on it's ass.



CC, is our resident muddle East expert, so I am curious to read her thoughts on this.

The prime minister has given MPs the weekend to think it over. And what a motion to ponder.



But the answer is clear.



On Friday the Conservatives, as promised, tabled a motion in the House of Commons on our proposed actions in Iraq to deal with the Islamic State.



On Monday MPs will vote on it.



These are the main points: "contribute Canadian military assets to the fight against ISIL, and terrorists allied with ISIL, including air strike capability for a period of up to six months" and "note that the Government of Canada will not deploy troops in ground combat operations."



The contribution is fairly modest: Some fighter jets, one mid-air refuelling plane and two surveillance aircraft.



We've been firm in our support of air strikes. We've also wary about the dangers a ground operation would present.



Anyone who thinks this is a replay of the 2003 operation in Iraq hasn't been paying attention.



This is our fight because the Islamic State has called us out. They're making it very clear they're a threat to the security of all Canadians.



Canadian youth have gone abroad to join these terrorists to fight and die alongside them.



Our citizens have been singled out in video messages as legitimate targets for slaughter. And not just the military--civilians too.



There is nothing beyond the pale for this group. The atrocities they've committed in recent months prove this.



That's why MPs should return on Monday to give the prime minister their full support.



Not all will. We understand NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair has been doing what opposition leaders do.



He's asking critical questions although he hasn't totally ruled out supporting the mission. We share Mulcair's concern that this could turn into a lengthy engagement.



That said, Harper was smart to point out that eradicating the Islamic State can't be the goal. That would be impossible. We just need to degrade their capacity to hurt others and, most importantly, us.



This is a mission that can be accomplished.



But Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau's refusal to back the mission is just another reminder he's not ready for primetime.



This is the most important vote of the year. Make it count.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/support-harper-on-iraq">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/s ... er-on-iraq">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/support-harper-on-iraq

[Romero]

I do not support it either. War caused this mess and war ain't going to help stop it. The current airstrikes have already been proven futile. They haven't slowed ISIS in any way and have only brought more members into their ranks. Civilians have already been killed, infrastructure has been destroyed, and that ain't winning hearts and minds. We don't have forces on the ground so we won't know exactly what we're hitting.



Canadian airstrikes in Libya only helped that country become a hotbed of extremism and a recruitment tool for what we are seeing today.



Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Iran have plenty enough manpower and hardware. The more they're involved, the less hostility to the West. Time to let them deal with it.

[Anonymous]

I do not support it either. War caused this mess and war ain't going to help stop it. The current airstrikes have already been proven futile. They haven't slowed ISIS in any way and have only brought more members into their ranks. Civilians have already been killed, infrastructure has been destroyed, and that ain't winning hearts and minds. We don't have forces on the ground so we won't know exactly what we're hitting.



Canadian airstrikes in Libya only helped that country become a hotbed of extremism and a recruitment tool for what we are seeing today.



Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Iran have plenty enough manpower and hardware. The more they're involved, the less hostility to the West. Time to let them deal with it.

The West has no right to stick it's nose into the sovereign affairs of any nation. What Canada, the US, Europe and Aussie are doing is an extension of colonialism.



[size=200]FUCK THE INTERFERING WEST!![/size]

[cc]

While I would not completely rule out selective strikes on individuals setting up for attacks within the West, attacking IS en masse is as stupid as it gets.



Yes, IS would like to and will provide people into the West, but attacking their military moves is beyond stupid.



IS is merely "islam being true islam" exactly as exampled by and instructed by Mo ... with or without us doing a thing .... let Mo's wannabe supremacist  islam "be itself" and destroy itself without us doing a thing



 ac_popcorn

[Anonymous]

While I would not completely rule out selective strikes on individuals setting up for attacks within the West, attacking IS en masse is as stupid as it gets.



Yes, IS would like to and will provide people into the West, but attacking their military moves is beyond stupid.



IS is merely "islam being true islam" exactly as exampled by and instructed by Mo ... with or without us doing a thing .... let Mo's wannabe supremacist  islam "be itself" and destroy itself without us doing a thing



 ac_popcorn

I also believe an attack plays right into ISIS' hands. Watch their support soar once the West hits civilians or when ISIS uses children as shields.

[RW]

I didn't want to ever get involved in Iraq.

[Anonymous]

I didn't want to ever get involved in Iraq.

same here

[Anonymous]

I didn't want to ever get involved in Iraq.

I don't know much about this ISIS or what the mission's aims are. But I do know I would rather fight them there than here.

[Anonymous]

I realize this is not the same as when Chretien got us involved in Afghanistan. However, in principle I strongly disgree with the West sticking it's collective nose into the affairs of sovereign nations. This usually comes back to bite the West on it's ass.



CC, is our resident muddle East expert, so I am curious to read her thoughts on this.

The prime minister has given MPs the weekend to think it over. And what a motion to ponder.



But the answer is clear.



On Friday the Conservatives, as promised, tabled a motion in the House of Commons on our proposed actions in Iraq to deal with the Islamic State.



On Monday MPs will vote on it.



These are the main points: "contribute Canadian military assets to the fight against ISIL, and terrorists allied with ISIL, including air strike capability for a period of up to six months" and "note that the Government of Canada will not deploy troops in ground combat operations."



The contribution is fairly modest: Some fighter jets, one mid-air refuelling plane and two surveillance aircraft.



We've been firm in our support of air strikes. We've also wary about the dangers a ground operation would present.



Anyone who thinks this is a replay of the 2003 operation in Iraq hasn't been paying attention.



This is our fight because the Islamic State has called us out. They're making it very clear they're a threat to the security of all Canadians.



Canadian youth have gone abroad to join these terrorists to fight and die alongside them.



Our citizens have been singled out in video messages as legitimate targets for slaughter. And not just the military--civilians too.



There is nothing beyond the pale for this group. The atrocities they've committed in recent months prove this.



That's why MPs should return on Monday to give the prime minister their full support.



Not all will. We understand NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair has been doing what opposition leaders do.



He's asking critical questions although he hasn't totally ruled out supporting the mission. We share Mulcair's concern that this could turn into a lengthy engagement.



That said, Harper was smart to point out that eradicating the Islamic State can't be the goal. That would be impossible. We just need to degrade their capacity to hurt others and, most importantly, us.



This is a mission that can be accomplished.



But Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau's refusal to back the mission is just another reminder he's not ready for primetime.



This is the most important vote of the year. Make it count.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/support-harper-on-iraq">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/s ... er-on-iraq">http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/10/04/support-harper-on-iraq

I really don't know what to say about this other than I pray everyone who leaves for Iraq returns home safely to their families.

[keeper]

Face it folks, War mean MONEY. I see something really bad happening in 2 maybe 3 years. (not that war isn't bad already)



I said it first ac_beating

[Romero]

The West has no right to stick it's nose into the sovereign affairs of any nation. What Canada, the US, Europe and Aussie are doing is an extension of colonialism.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world ... .html?_r=0">http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world/isis-ammunition-is-shown-to-have-origins-in-us-and-china.html?_r=0[/url]

Wanna help stop terrorism? Stop flooding the region with weapons!

[Anonymous]

In its campaign across northern Syria and Iraq, the jihadist group Islamic State has been using ammunition from the United States and other countries that have been supporting the regional security forces fighting the group, according to new field data gathered by a private arms-tracking organization.



The data, part of a larger sample of captured arms and cartridges in Syria and Iraq, carries an implicit warning for policy makers and advocates of intervention.



It suggests that ammunition transferred into Syria and Iraq to help stabilize governments has instead passed from the governments to the jihadists, helping to fuel the Islamic State's rise and persistent combat power. Rifle cartridges from the United States, the sample shows, have played a significant role.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world/isis-ammunition-is-shown-to-have-origins-in-us-and-china.html?_r=0">//http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world/isis-ammunition-is-shown-to-have-origins-in-us-and-china.html?_r=0

Wanna help stop terrorism? Stop flooding the region with weapons!

Oh I know that. It's ironic that the West is now de facto allies of Assad in his fight with ISIS.



The best way the West can protect itself from Islamofascism is outlaw Islam and revoke the citizenship/permanent residency of immigrants who refuse to renounce that violent, hateful ideology.

[Obvious Li]

agreed. except to say i like the fact there is always an opportunity over there to test new weapons systems on real live targets...you can't underestimate the value that provides to military planners...but should we be flying around over there wasting our money....fuck no



if the west was really serious it would simply close off the middle east entirely and leave them to rot in their own shit.....which is what they should do..outside of Israel and Turkey...nobody in or out...no air traffic, no ships, no cars

[Anonymous]

In its campaign across northern Syria and Iraq, the jihadist group Islamic State has been using ammunition from the United States and other countries that have been supporting the regional security forces fighting the group, according to new field data gathered by a private arms-tracking organization.



The data, part of a larger sample of captured arms and cartridges in Syria and Iraq, carries an implicit warning for policy makers and advocates of intervention.



It suggests that ammunition transferred into Syria and Iraq to help stabilize governments has instead passed from the governments to the jihadists, helping to fuel the Islamic State's rise and persistent combat power. Rifle cartridges from the United States, the sample shows, have played a significant role.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world/isis-ammunition-is-shown-to-have-origins-in-us-and-china.html?_r=0">//http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/world/isis-ammunition-is-shown-to-have-origins-in-us-and-china.html?_r=0

Wanna help stop terrorism? Stop flooding the region with weapons!

Oh I know that. It's ironic that the West is now de facto allies of Assad in his fight with ISIS.



The best way the West can protect itself from Islamofascism is outlaw Islam and revoke the citizenship/permanent residency of immigrants who refuse to renounce that violent, hateful ideology.

 ac_wot

[cc]

Give it a bit more  time. islam will  leave no alternative ... all  on its own



ISIS and 100s of other murderous misogynist islamic radical groups that exactly follow the actions and word of Mohammed  are  not  anomalies .. they are merely islam being islam



That apartment in Calgary with 12 ISIS supporters, 6 off to fight, 3 killed doing so,  is not  anomaly ... it is just an exposed "visible" tip of the iceberg. I was merely an example of what happens when the local concentration becomes high