America - A Big Kid With Dangerous Toys

[Romero]

Interesting trivia - if Hillary Clinton had become President instead of Obama, there would have been either a Bush or Clinton in the White House(President or Vice President) since 1981. That would have been four decades, and she's still a top runner for a possible eight year term next year. Jeb Bush is also considered a top runner in the next election.



1981 - 2024 including Obama's two terms. That's five decades!



Two family royal dynasty?

[Renee]

Agreed with the directly above.

If it had remained a Republic as the founding fathers had intended, there would accountability on the part of the government

I am very aware that it now functions mainly as a monarchy but would you please elaborate on the set up it had for a republic and how it was to function ... and why there would be accountability?

The US Constitution and it's original 10 Amendments granted what was termed as certain "inalienable rights" as mentioned in "The Declaration of Independence" and those rights could not be abridged by the government. The original 10 amendments were designed to put limits on the power of the central government and prevent the abuse of individual rights. They granted no power to the government to commit mischief in behalf of the government itself. This protected individual's rights and prevented abuse by the government and limited it's ability to impose it's will on the minority. In that respect accountability was upheld because the government was held accountable directly to the rule of law.



The framers of the US Constitution felt that a what is considered a democracy in most parts of the world were nothing but a witches brew put in place by mob rule. They felt that historically most direct or representative democracy's were just failed platforms for the governmental that encouraged the abuse of individual rights.



Over the years we have moved away from our republican roots and granted the federal government rights and privileges it was never meant to have. Many of them are in direct conflict with the original 10 Amendments of the Constitution. The result is the creation of a huge multi-tendriled beast with no discernible head, who's only mission is to perpetuate itself on the backs of the people. It's like this huge malevolent parasite that sticks it's shit hooks into everything it can and never stops inventing ways of furthering it's ambition and control. It sucks money and power off anything in it's grasp and it leaves little or no room to stop it from doing so. In many ways "we the people" are now more accountable to the Federal Government than it is to us. I have no doubt if the original framers of the US Constitution were alive today, they would probably end up in jail or on some kind of watched list because they would advocate that we rip it all down and start again.

[Odinson]

Funny how we voted NO NATO and we still get these joint exercises with the americans..



Now more than ever even though every1 says "its not because of the current international climate"...



We should just build a big honking nuke and threaten to blow this shit up if some1 comes on our soil.

[Mel Gibson]

Don't get alarmed about nothing...



America has already planted the seed of destruction in almost all nations around the world, and people are lovin' it!



Guessed what it is?  Fast food...  KFC, McDonald's, etc...  And believe it or not, even the poorest shithole nations love it!  And yes, they are getting even fatter, on average, than the stereotypical fat American!  No joke!  And this is to the point where the Doctors are now actually getting concerned, since this wasn't an issue a few decades ago.

[Odinson]

I think it was the 90´s when I ate a fast food burger last time..



We eat at places with a little bit more class and better food..



Mcdonalds is filled with noisy teenagers and trailertrash.

[Phil O Bat]

I thought that is why y'all have guns - to keep your government honest.



I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the U.S.  It's big and confused and meddle in things it shouldn't.  That said, some of my favourite people are American.

We have guns because the gun lobbies have the money to buy enough politicians to keep it that way.





Not all of us are Americans by choice. I tried emigrating to Canada but the requirements are too high.

[Renee]

I thought that is why y'all have guns - to keep your government honest.



I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the U.S.  It's big and confused and meddle in things it shouldn't.  That said, some of my favourite people are American.

We have guns because the gun lobbies have the money to buy enough politicians to keep it that way.





Not all of us are Americans by choice. I tried emigrating to Canada but the requirements are too high.

WRONG!

We have guns because it is a constitutional right. The "gun lobby" as you people refer to it is there to safeguard  that right because the politicians and the elitist morons on the political left have shown that they have the exact opposite interests in mind.



IMHO, you probably should emigrate to Canada. Don't let some government red tape spoil your dream of living in a land more in line with your political and social views. If the US is not your cup of tea then leave and take as many of your like minded friends as you can carry. ac_gumpop

[Bricktop]

Is Leopardsocks/Spectre 'anti american' or an 'American hater' because he post something off-color like this thread?



I've noticed that that staunch USA lobby here and on memebee don't want anyone to criticize the USA or its citizens at all.



Any smidgeon of dissent, and the view it as unrestrained hate of the USA.



Cripes, these people oughta get a grip

As with all things, I am whatever term of abuse those that disagree with me wish to concoct.



I am, in my own view, anti-American. Yet I agree that Americans are friendly, generous and warm hearted for the most part, and universally fat.



The American Government, on the other hand, is a clear and present danger to world peace. Many Americans I speak to, and Renee corroborates this, are as appalled as anyone at the conduct of their Government, but feel powerless to intervene. There seems to be a substantial separation between the Government and the people.



America is a violent nation, both intrinsically and extrinsically, and George Bush is by any definition a war criminal. I doubt he will ever leave the American territory for fear of being called to account. If America stood up to its oft touted, but rarely accepted principles, it would hand Bush over to the International War Crimes tribunal.



America's hypocrisy was on show when it assassinated, or murdered, Osama Bin Laden. America had NO authority to enter Pakistani territory to carry out a military operation. Yet it did so, and killed a number of people in the process. Yes, Bin Laden was a beast, but where were America's principles in abiding by the rule of law??



In the Vietnamese war, a Colonel in the South Vietnamese army was renowned as a heartless killer, executing a number of North Vietnamese leaders without trial. When the war was lost he fled to the USA.



I wonder what the American Government's response would have been, if Ho Chi Minh had sent a couple of choppers into Seattle and wiped this cretinous psycho from the face of the earth?



Might is always right, eh, America?

[Anonymous]

Most Americans don't even like this idea, but the American government, which is not really a democracy, just ignores them.

The US governement was never set up to be a democracy, it was originally conceived and designed to be a Republic. After the Civil War it has moved closer and closer to being a direct democracy which is where all the problems stem from. If it had remained a Republic as the founding fathers had intended, there would accountability on the part of the government.

BULLSEYE!! Universal suffrage is a recipe for destruction.

[cc]

Renee: I'm a little clearer on it but still have areas I don't get. Who elects the govt people in  a Republic. Was it not always House & Senate elected by the people? .. or is it only "powers" of the govt. that went wrong?  Today your problem is less what powers the overall govt. (3 branches) has, rather we are witnessing a time limited monarchy the past 6 years .. usurped from the other branches and now with virtually  all power coming from the king



In any regard, the "democracies" of our world, here, US, Europe, all of them,  sure are as hell are doing a crappy job and all function virtually identical. All their govts. have FULL powers and run on a par with FIFA or the IOC which also gives leaders FULL power over their domains



Shen is right ... "it's the quality of voters stupid" .... that is as much the problem as the leaders they elect ... democracy cannot and does not produce a single efficient system anywhere in the world. That said, the people can only vote for the people and parties made available to them to vote for  .. so it's lose lose for every democracy and the inefficiency result is there for all to see



Seems direct democracies achieve about 25% (the high end) of what should be 100 % efficiency. That's why the "free" world limps along at best

[Odinson]

Upper class people did the politics.



Atleast in roman republic.

[cc]

America has already planted the seed of destruction in almost all nations around the world, and people are lovin' it!



Guessed what it is? Fast food... KFC, McDonald's, etc

The sneaky bastards

[Renee]

I'm a little clearer on it but still have areas I don't get. Who elects the govt people in  a Republic. Was it not always House & Senate elected by the people? .. or is it only "powers" of the govt. that went wrong?  Today your problem is less what powers the overall govt. (3 branches) has, rather we are witnessing a time limited monarchy the past 6 years .. usurped from the other branches and now with virtually  all power coming from the king



In any regard, the "democracies" of our world, here, US, Europe, all of them,  sure are as hell are doing a crappy job and all function virtually identical. All their govts. have FULL powers and run on a par with FIFA or the IOC which also gives leaders FULL power over their domains



Shen is right ... "it's the quality of voters stupid" .... that is as much the problem as the leaders they elect ... democracy cannot and does not produce a single efficient system anywhere in the world. That said, the people can only vote for the people and parties made available to them to vote for  .. so it's lose lose for every democracy and the inefficiency result is there for all to see



Seems direct democracies achieve about 25% (the high end) of what should be 100 % efficiency. That's why the "free" world limps along at best

The people elect the government in both a republic and a democracy but in a republic the government on all levels is bound by a constitution or some other kind of charter of rights. In that respect Canada is also a republic. In a direct democracy the rule of law takes a backseat to the will of the majority. Individual rights are not a limiting factor in the laws pasted by the government. Unfortunately in recent times the rule of law is sometimes skirted in favor of political agenda because today's voters are actually ignorant of their constitutional rights. Why is this; because of the purely democratic concept of universal suffrage.  In a true republic not only does the rule of law limit the government but the power of the vote exercised by those with skin in the game holds the government accountable to the voters. In a direct democracy were everyone votes, it's nothing but mob rule with elected officials all vying for as much power over blocks of voters as they can grab.



BTW, in the US it hasn't always been that the house and senate were directly elected by the people. Until around WWI it was only The House of Representatives that was voted for directly by the populace of each state. The Senate was made up of appointees elected by and approved by the individual state legislatures. That way the senator sent to Washington DC was only authorized to act upon the business of the state. The voting public of the individual state only had an indirect role in electing the Washington senator.



The senate was originally set up to be a more deliberative body and if necessary it's purpose was to restrain the direct democratic process brought forth by the House. It's overriding purpose was to keep the nations broader interests in mind as framed in the constitution. That way true mob rule (democracy) was avoided.  In 1913 during the so-called progressive era under Woodrow Wilson, the 17th Amendment was ratified which took the power to appoint senators away from the state legislatures and gave it to the voting public. That huge mistake was the culmination of decades of progressive reformers and agitators (mob rule proponents) pushing and pushing their special brand of stupidity onto voters and politicians who were basically ignorant of the virtues of the original US political process. Of all the Amendments to the US Constitution, the 17th is a freaking travesty and it never should have been.

[cc]

Thanks Renee. I've been a close follower of US politics for several decades, but was not aware of how it all changed after the 17th Amendment



Seems no matter how careful framers are, the mob-propelled reps will find ways to change things (create amendments etc.) including the very law a republic is intended to protect .. .and change things always  to their advantage



More like a republic in a way or not, our govt. runs no better than yours in the overall ... grossly inefficient, subject to the will of the today's mob .. and loses more efficiency by often running in minority mode.



As to charter, that came later and was dictated by those elected by the mob of that day ... enacted by a  greater megalomaniac than you currently have ... so "purity of charter" is not a strong point here. In fact, an abusive  result has created Kangaroo Courts (like back in Medieval days) to stifle free speech ... breaking many small businesses and individuals who do not have the resources to fight .... something you do not have. And we all know that all Roos are progs .. happens in the pouch I suspect.



The very existence of such a  Medieval entity alone, run by ruthless wannabe elitist unelected thought police  makes it difficult if not impossible for me to respect my country of citizenship as I would like to.



Seems many local courts / judges are now  usurping  that role in your thought police   country

[RW]

I'd take mob propelled lobbying over the underhanded corporate bullshit that is rampant in U.S. politics these days.