8 more slaughtered in the US.

[Bricktop]

Dove...pour 10 millions firearms into a nation. What percentage of those so-called "legal" firearms are used by criminals? Let's say 10%. That's 1 million firearms in the hands of would be villains.



In 2013, 21 MILLION firearms were purchased in the US. 21 MILLION. If 10% falls into the "wrong hands" that is STILL 2.1 MILLION handguns in the wrong hands.



Why does a modern, civilised nation need to buy 21 MILLION handguns in a single year? They serve a single purpose. To KILL.



Actually, I'm misleading you. They serve TWO purposes. to kill, and to make gun manufacturers rich.



Its insane. No other country owns guns at the volume per capita that you do.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of ... by_country">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country



And that is why 30,000 plus of your citizens die each year from gun related death.

[Anonymous]

You really have no idea what America is really like. The only thing that keeps the businesses safe in the city I live in is the right the owners have to arm themselves.  We need to deal with poverty and the illegal fire arms that FAR out number the legal ones. Not strip rights away from noncriminals.  That's like saying the way to stop the heroin epidemic is to take pain patients prescriptions away. It makes no sense and doesn't address the problem.  You don't strip rights from innocent people in order to clean up criminals.

[Frood]

You really have no idea what America is really like. The only thing that keeps the businesses safe in the city I live in is the right the owners have to arm themselves.  We need to deal with poverty and the illegal fire arms that FAR out number the legal ones. Not strip rights away from noncriminals.  That's like saying the way to stop the heroin epidemic is to take pain patients prescriptions away. It makes no sense and doesn't address the problem.  You don't strip rights from innocent people in order to clean up criminals.

Most Australians don't understand America and its background nor do they want to understand it because we here are indoctrinated otherwise by our politicians and mass media.



You're not going to get anywhere with him on this topic especially so if he was actually a cop. The idea that people could defend themselves against their government and their uniformed officers or soldiers scares the shit out of them and Australia has a very dicey history in that regard.

[RW]

You really have no idea what America is really like. The only thing that keeps the businesses safe in the city I live in is the right the owners have to arm themselves.  We need to deal with poverty and the illegal fire arms that FAR out number the legal ones. Not strip rights away from noncriminals.  That's like saying the way to stop the heroin epidemic is to take pain patients prescriptions away. It makes no sense and doesn't address the problem.  You don't strip rights from innocent people in order to clean up criminals.

Most Australians don't understand America and its background nor do they want to understand it because we here are indoctrinated otherwise by our politicians and mass media.



You're not going to get anywhere with him on this topic especially so if he was actually a cop. The idea that people could defend themselves against their government and their uniformed officers or soldiers scares the shit out of them and Australia has a very dicey history in that regard.

The American government has tanks and fighter jets and shit.  WTF are guns against that?  LOL!  Fight back against the government.  That's ridiculous.



Get with the times.

[Wulf]

You really have no idea what America is really like. The only thing that keeps the businesses safe in the city I live in is the right the owners have to arm themselves.  We need to deal with poverty and the illegal fire arms that FAR out number the legal ones. Not strip rights away from noncriminals.  That's like saying the way to stop the heroin epidemic is to take pain patients prescriptions away. It makes no sense and doesn't address the problem.  You don't strip rights from innocent people in order to clean up criminals.

Most Australians don't understand America and its background nor do they want to understand it because we here are indoctrinated otherwise by our politicians and mass media.



You're not going to get anywhere with him on this topic especially so if he was actually a cop. The idea that people could defend themselves against their government and their uniformed officers or soldiers scares the shit out of them and Australia has a very dicey history in that regard.

The American government has tanks and fighter jets and shit.  WTF are guns against that?  LOL!  Fight back against the government.  That's ridiculous.



Get with the times.

And it's troops have to have the willingness to turn those weapons on their own people, ......family/friends. Not going to happen.



Get with reality.



I want to remind you that throughout history governments have ALWAYS been better equipped than the revolutionaries. That has not always been the deciding factor in a violent struggle for change. The US itself is living proof of that. Canadians and Aussies will never understand because your national psyche was and it think still is, one of ambivalence when it comes to your independence. You people got what was left of the tyrant after what we in the US went thru. 18TH century British ego and their overbearing heavy handed style of governing was severely reduced and forever changed after they got humiliated in front of the entire world (TWICE) I might add, by the fledgling US. It was a case where a vastly superior military force learn hard lessons that have been repeated over and over again by governments all over the world.

Your people have never been thru it so it has not shaped or effected your way of thinking.  It's a good thing because if pushed into an untenable position by your governments you are I'll equipped to do anything about it. And unfortunately, you are all too pussified at this point to do more than whine and cry. That sad fact is played out and evident right here on this forum day after day.

[RW]

We kept your asses out didn't we?



And thanks for making my point about guns arming against military.  It is ridiculous.

[Wulf]

We kept your asses out didn't we?



And thanks for making my point about guns arming against military.  It is ridiculous.

 

   



Not sure where you get the idea that I proved anything in respect to your......"point". Is reading comprehension taught THAT differently north of the US border?[/quote]



Oh BTW,  It's always amusing when you Canadians beat your chest over Quebec, Isn't great to be proud of an 18th century military victory where a grossly untrained, small pox ravaged, band of American Militia (farmers and shop keepers) where defeated by 10,000 British regulars, an unknown number of Indian allies and Canadian loyalist grovelers, who held a defensive strategic advantage. All in the dead of winter I might add.



I'll tell you what, if you DIDN'T win that one, you would never have been able to live it down.   So instead of "pride" maybe "relief" should be what you feel when you think of your involvement in the American Revolution. But regardless of what happened at Quebec, at the ultimate end you were still saddled with mentally deficient George and company running the show while the American colonies were free to govern themselves.  Now ask yourself how that happened.

[RW]

The part where you agreed with me that the military is better equipped than the populace.  That chucks out the whole "we need guns to keep the government in line" crap right out the window.



Don't worry Wulf, my reading comprehension is better than your spelling ;)

[Wulf]

The part where you agreed with me that the military is better equipped than the populace.  That chucks out the whole "we need guns to keep the government in line" crap right out the window.



Don't worry Wulf, my reading comprehension is better than your spelling ;)

You obviously didn't read beyond the second sentence in my previous post. You do know that there is more to debate than just cherry picking the opponents information and responding in a disingenuous manner, don'tcha? Are we taking lessons from Romero now?



If you are going to ignore the main part of an opponents counterpoint then there is no reason to debate. This goes back to a previous point I made in another thread where I stated that most so-called debate in venues like this is nothing but wasted time. Thanks for proving MY point.

[RW]

You are the grumpiest pessimist I know!



I'm not wrong when I say it's a ridiculous argument for gun ownership.

[Wulf]

You are the grumpiest pessimist I know!



I'm not wrong when I say it's a ridiculous argument for gun ownership.

"Pessimist"?????......No, "realist" the proper term. But I am grumpy, I'll give you that.



I say you are wrong. I have history and military experience and tactical knowledge on my side, what do you have...Opinion? last I checked opinion is not good enough to prove a point.

[RW]

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[Wulf]

Tell me where I'm wrong.

You are wrong in the idea that just because a government has superior weaponry it can't be challenged by an armed populace. Have you NOT been paying attention to what is going on in Syria lately?



I already pointed to the American Revolution but there are tons more recent happenings that point to you being wrong. Take for example the Russian Revolution, the Cuban Revolution, the Vietnam war, Even the Nazi take over of the German Democratic government. How many of those challenges to the established government do you think would have been successful if the revolutionaries were unarmed????? I'll tell you how many......NONE.



Do you think a revolution just happens overnight? Do you think that one day an ass load of malcontents just get out of bed and say..."Okay boys and girls, we're having a revolution today....Everybody grab your favorite shotgun"? It doesn't quite work that way but there is one commonality.....the rebels are armed from the beginning and although they may be poorly armed at first, circumstances change. Weapons are upgraded, tactics are used that play to the strengths of the rebel forces. I don't think you fully appreciate how easy it is for a determined group to achieve access to paramilitary weaponry and equipment. It's happening right under our noses all over the globe. Do you think National Guard Armory's in the US are what most security professionals would consider a "hard target"????? Do you have any idea how much equipment and weaponry is ripe for the taking in those weekend warrior, buffoon guarded places?



Everything is not always as it seems; everything is not Canada out there.

[asal]

Related:  States with higher gun ownership have more deaths of police officers



http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2015/08/13/states-with-high-gun-ownership-see-more-officers-killed/">//http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2015/08/13/states-with-high-gun-ownership-see-more-officers-killed/

[RW]

Tell me where I'm wrong.

You are wrong in the idea that just because a government has superior weaponry it can't be challenged by an armed populace. Have you NOT been paying attention to what is going on in Syria lately?



I already pointed to the American Revolution but there are tons more recent happenings that point to you being wrong. Take for example the Russian Revolution, the Cuban Revolution, the Vietnam war, Even the Nazi take over of the German Democratic government. How many of those challenges to the established government do you think would have been successful if the revolutionaries were unarmed????? I'll tell you how many......NONE.



Do you think a revolution just happens overnight? Do you think that one day an ass load of malcontents just get out of bed and say..."Okay boys and girls, we're having a revolution today....Everybody grab your favorite shotgun"? It doesn't quite work that way but there is one commonality.....the rebels are armed from the beginning and although they may be poorly armed at first, circumstances change. Weapons are upgraded, tactics are used that play to the strengths of the rebel forces. I don't think you fully appreciate how easy it is for a determined group to achieve access to paramilitary weaponry and equipment. It's happening right under our noses all over the globe. Do you think National Guard Armory's in the US are what most security professionals would consider a "hard target"????? Do you have any idea how much equipment and weaponry is ripe for the taking in those weekend warrior, buffoon guarded places?



Everything is not always as it seems; everything is not Canada out there.

Getting back to reality...



Do you really think that would happen in the U.S. and that any violent insurgence wouldn't be immediately squashed by the big bad state?



We're not talking about Syria or Russia.  We are talking about the "democratically" ruled U S of A.