Quote from: Lokmar on August 23, 2024, 08:08:45 PMGovernment never excels in efficiency. They excel in spending money and fucking things up.

It is even worse in Canada. Canadian provinces have health boards, that are made up of appointed leftist political hacks. They decide how the block grants are spent. And it is always what the union bosses want, not what the public needs.

Quote from: hard R on August 23, 2024, 03:14:57 PMAddendum: I should ask if you have considered just letting the Canadian system crumble. Not bothering to save it. Because it's clearly not working as it should, not that this should come to the surprise of anyone familiar with the inefficiencies inherent in government run infrastructure.

And if you need to see a doctor, do it on the sly and remunerate him directly. Preferably in a form that doesn't result in money changing hands (so, bartering) and cut the government bullshittery out of the equation entirely.

Letting it crumble?? It's well on it's way there now.

Some provinces are spending nearly half of their budgets on crappy health care. It's not sustainable and it will come crashing to the ground within 20 years unless the Canada Health Act is reformed.

Quote from: DKG on August 23, 2024, 06:47:02 AMOurs is just not efficient. You saw the post about the block grants. That is wasteful.

Government never excels in efficiency. They excel in spending money and fucking things up.

Addendum: I should ask if you have considered just letting the Canadian system crumble. Not bothering to save it. Because it's clearly not working as it should, not that this should come to the surprise of anyone familiar with the inefficiencies inherent in government run infrastructure.

And if you need to see a doctor, do it on the sly and remunerate him directly. Preferably in a form that doesn't result in money changing hands (so, bartering) and cut the government bullshittery out of the equation entirely.

Quote from: DKG on August 22, 2024, 07:08:23 AMHow do they do that?

Exactly as I said. The government enforces the rule that private practicioners contribute a portion of their working hours to the public healthcare sector by revoking their license to practice at all if they do not. Effectively it's a tax without the money component; those hours that the private carers are forced to invest in the publick healthcare model are hours they might otherwise be devoting to the private.

And if they don't comply, they don't get to practice at all. Period.

As for the clients, they get to pay into the public service slush fund via taxes they cannot avoid paying without having the taxman breathing down their necks. They could have full comprehensive private coverage, they still must pay the levy for the public medicare.

Oh, and the slush fund regularly gets dipped into to fund other, non-medical related things. I believe I mentioned this previously.

So, yes I can agree with you that the Canadian model truly sucks, based exclusively on the inordinately long waiting queues that one is faced with to access services. But you cannot tell me that places like England or Australia are better simply because there are "private options", not when those models are overseen by the same type of corrupt fuckwads that mishandle the service on Canadian shores.

Believe me, I wish it were otherwise. It might give us an example to rub people's noses in and show them how it should be done.

Quote from: Lokmar on August 22, 2024, 10:41:34 AMThats what caused the problem ITFP. Give government power and they ALWAYS expand and try to take over. Its the nature of government. Thats why our founders created the best form of government ever known to mankind when they broke the government into 3 or arguable 5 opposed branches. We fucked up when we allowed the government to better "do the will of the people". Fixing government so that it works leads to slavery.

Ours is just not efficient. You saw the post about the block grants. That is wasteful.

Even by single payer systems, Canada's health care system is the shits.

Quote from: DKG on August 22, 2024, 07:06:44 AMI don't mind the government running a basic health delivery program, but mostn health care delivery should be in private hands to keepn costs lower and service better.

Thats what caused the problem ITFP. Give government power and they ALWAYS expand and try to take over. Its the nature of government. Thats why our founders created the best form of government ever known to mankind when they broke the government into 3 or arguable 5 opposed branches. We fucked up when we allowed the government to better "do the will of the people". Fixing government so that it works leads to slavery.

Probably they tax the fuck out of them.

Quote from: hard R on August 22, 2024, 01:39:09 AMThey also require the private options to contribute to the government subsidized system under threat of practitioners losing their license to work,

How do they do that?

Quote from: Oerdin on August 22, 2024, 04:34:53 AMPrivatize all of it.  The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient.  Competition between providers will also do the same.

Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.

I don't mind the government running a basic health delivery program, but mostn health care delivery should be in private hands to keepn costs lower and service better.

Quote from: Oerdin on August 22, 2024, 04:34:53 AMPrivatize all of it.  The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient.  Competition between providers will also do the same.

Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.

Guarding against collusion between those organisations and the public service might also be something to keep an eye on too. We'd want to avoid the kinds of relationships that media outlets and various Silicon Valley companies have been known to enjoy with the government at the common man's expense. The revolving door that operates between pharma companies and regulatory bodies like the FDA and CDC does not serve us even remotely adequately.

On a different note, I'm glad you popped in here actually. I've been pawing through the Open Ink link you posted earlier in the shoutbox; a tidy collection of well researched and unbiased presentations highlighting the events of 2020's election I think and I imagine there's a few in my circle that could benefit from watching them. Thankyou for sharing them.

Privatize all of it.  The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient.  Competition between providers will also do the same.

Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.

Quote from: Herman on August 21, 2024, 07:36:05 PMThey both allow more private options than Canaduh.

That they do. They also require the private options to contribute to the government subsidized system under threat of practitioners losing their license to work, effectively rendering the private sector a thinly veneered public system, given that its workforce and its clients are subsidizing the openly public model.

And that's before we consider how many non-taxpaying illegal migrants get bumped to the head of the queue while the locals get to wait their turn. 

Quote from: hard R on August 21, 2024, 06:58:01 PMTake a look at England's NHS sometime. Or Australia's Medicare for that matter.

Government mismanagement of socialized medicine is not a problem unique to Canada.

They both allow more private options than Canaduh.