https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tESIMGFBkFU
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 19, 2023, 10:44:59 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tESIMGFBkFU
Goddamn, I did not know Trump is off the ballot in Colorado. Does that mean just for the GOP primaries or the prediential election too?
Quote from: Herman on December 19, 2023, 10:51:15 PMGoddamn, I did not know Trump is off the ballot in Colorado. Does that mean just for the GOP primaries or the prediential election too?
id imagine both
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 19, 2023, 10:53:41 PMid imagine both
Most states were going the other direction. That is fucked up.
Quote from: Herman on December 19, 2023, 10:54:44 PMMost states were going the other direction. That is fucked up.
For a candidate that got 81 million votes libtards are sure fucking affraid of a rematch
Wonder why that would be
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 19, 2023, 10:58:10 PMFor a candidate that got 81 million votes libtards are sure fucking affraid of a rematch
Wonder why that would be
I can't figure it out either.
I like him a lot too.
RFK Jr. said that all Americans should feel "troubled" by the Colorado Supreme Court's decision that former President Donald Trump should be blocked from appearing on the presidential primary ballot in the state.
"Every American should be troubled by the Colorado Supreme Court's decision to remove President Trump from the ballot," Kennedy tweeted. "The court has deprived him of a consequential right without having been convicted of a crime. This was done without an evidentiary hearing in which he is given the basic right of confronting his accusers," he wrote. "It's time to trust the voters. It is up to the people to decide who the best candidate is. Not the courts. The people. That's Democracy 101," he noted.
https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1737311953901744576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1737312144537055372%7Ctwgr%5E2eb63c0529806d76b9d42ac3ffb3fc372d30d583%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2Frfk-jr-colorado-trump-ballot
Sadly, Vivek isn't going to be elected any where. Best he can hope for is a political nomination.
The impact of the Colorado disqualification will be exactly what the indictments did. It is going to give Trump a boost in the polls.
The red states are talking shit about booting biden off their balots. LMFAO! It's boogaloo time people! :yeahhh:
As expected other Democrat controlled states are thinking how they too can keep Trump off the ballot.
California Lt. Gov. Eleni Kounalakis sent a letter to California Secretary of State Shirley Weber demanding she "explore every legal option to remove former President Donald Trump from California's 2024 presidential primary ballot."
She declared that the Constitution "is clear" regarding the qualifications for president: A candidate must "not be an insurrectionist," and they "must be 40 years old."
But, wait. That's not right, is it? No, it's not. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution lists the qualifications for president:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Nobody cares if Trump is taken off the ballot in California
Same with those two other shitholes Oregon and Washington
those states are hopeless
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 20, 2023, 08:57:20 PMNobody cares if Trump is taken off the ballot in California
Same with those two other shitholes Oregon and Washington
those states are hopeless
The last time democRATs did this, they kicked off a civil war. Personally, I would love to see California, Oregon, and Washington secede. That would guarantee Republican rule for decades.
Quote from: Lokmar on December 20, 2023, 09:00:23 PMThe last time democRATs did this, they kicked off a civil war. Personally, I would love to see California, Oregon, and Washington secede. That would guarantee Republican rule for decades.
There's like three people I like in the entire state of California. Two post here
well, a few more if you count victor davis hansen, michael savage and larry elder
were it not for them i'd be donating to a cause used to fund North Korea's ability to reach california with their nuclear arsenal
now Oregon is another story entirely. I cannot think of a single person worth saving there and that state could fall into the ocean tomorrow and I wouldn't give the slightest fuck
Bonesaw and cw are in Oregon...
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 20, 2023, 08:57:20 PMNobody cares if Trump is taken off the ballot in California
Same with those two other shitholes Oregon and Washington
those states are hopeless
But, what about states like Michigan. Trump is leading Jim Crow Joe in Michigan, but if that stuinned cunt governor can keep Trump off the ballot, she will.
Quote from: Herman on December 20, 2023, 10:20:37 PMBut, what about states like Michigan. Trump is leading Jim Crow Joe in Michigan, but if that stuinned cunt governor can keep Trump off the ballot, she will.
We will kill her.
I lost faith in my fellow Michiganders when they passed Prop 3 and 2. We will never have a fair election here again because of prop 2.
And I wanted Dixon so fucking bad. I was so pissed Whitmer got a second term.
My man says she's gonna be president one day. He doesn't say it proudly at all...he hates her. He just really understands politics on levels I don't and I learn a lot from him.
Quote from: Dove on December 20, 2023, 10:25:34 PMWe will kill her.
I lost faith in my fellow Michiganders when they passed Prop 3 and 2. We will never have a fair election here again because of prop 2.
And I wanted Dixon so fucking bad. I was so pissed Whitmer got a second term.
My man says she's gonna be president one day. He doesn't say it proudly at all...he hates her. He just really understands politics on levels I don't and I learn a lot from him.
I hate that cunt too. I would not be surprised if she tried to keep Trump off the ballot.
Quote from: Herman on December 20, 2023, 10:31:00 PMI hate that cunt too. I would not be surprised if she tried to keep Trump off the ballot.
Neither would I
She's vile, isn't she? A real embarrassment to our beautiful state.
We could have had Tutor Dixon and I'm still sore over that one.
Quote from: Dove on December 20, 2023, 10:33:53 PMNeither would I
She's vile, isn't she? A real embarrassment to our beautiful state.
We could have had Tutor Dixon and I'm still sore over that one.
She was trying to block energy from Western Canada getting to Southern Ontario. I am sure her driver will never have to wonder where he will fuel up her GMC Yukon.
Quote from: Dove on December 20, 2023, 10:25:34 PMWe will kill her.
I lost faith in my fellow Michiganders when they passed Prop 3 and 2. We will never have a fair election here again because of prop 2.
And I wanted Dixon so fucking bad. I was so pissed Whitmer got a second term.
My man says she's gonna be president one day. He doesn't say it proudly at all...he hates her. He just really understands politics on levels I don't and I learn a lot from him.
I remember her hubby throwing a fit about his boat servicing during her criminal covid dictates... like he wasn't obligated because he was married to the stupid Max Headroom faced cunt...
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 20, 2023, 09:04:48 PMThere's like three people I like in the entire state of California. Two post here
well, a few more if you count victor davis hansen, michael savage and larry elder
were it not for them i'd be donating to a cause used to fund North Korea's ability to reach california with their nuclear arsenal
now Oregon is another story entirely. I cannot think of a single person worth saving there and that state could fall into the ocean tomorrow and I wouldn't give the slightest fuck
My cousin and his wife had to flee Oregon. What a liberal shithole.
They lived in a small community but the people were fucking left wing nut jobs. They called him names cause they knew he was super CONservative. He always had a loaded gun on him.
Quote from: Frood on December 20, 2023, 11:06:21 PMI remember her hubby throwing a fit about his boat servicing during her criminal covid dictates... like he wasn't obligated because he was married to the stupid Max Headroom faced cunt...
Yep. Wasn't that some shit?
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 12:00:50 AMYep. Wasn't that some shit?
I was like... I'm locked down in the most locked down city in the world and this cunts hubby is complaining in my original home US state?
I wanted to feed both of them to pigs... alive.
Quote from: Frood on December 21, 2023, 12:06:05 AMI was like... I'm locked down in the most locked down city in the world and this cunts hubby is complaining in my original home US state?
I wanted to feed both of them to pigs... alive.
So did most of the state.
And somehow (because of abortion and people's total ignorance of how the government works) the vile cuntwad got re elected.
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 12:07:31 AMSo did most of the state.
And somehow (because of abortion and people's total ignorance of how the government works) the vile cuntwad got re elected.
I hope she gets a fair trial and hangs until dead... (no bag or mask).
Quote from: Frood on December 21, 2023, 12:08:44 AMI hope she gets a fair trial and hangs until dead... (no bag or mask).
Indeed but it won't happen.
Quote from: Frood on December 20, 2023, 11:06:21 PMI remember her hubby throwing a fit about his boat servicing during her criminal covid dictates... like he wasn't obligated because he was married to the stupid Max Headroom faced cunt...
I don't know how you stay in that shithole
I was just on a cruise two weeks ago and there were quite a few ppl from Michigan there.
They all seemed to hate living there according to them
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 08:56:49 AMI was just on a cruise two weeks ago and there were quite a few ppl from Michigan there.
They all seemed to hate living there according to them
I used to work with attorneys from there for workman compensation cases and they would call it the shit hole of America.
Quote from: Moonie on December 21, 2023, 09:45:41 AMI used to work with attorneys from there for workman compensation cases and they would call it the shit hole of America.
Nothing like our wonderful state.
Quote from: Moonie on December 21, 2023, 09:45:41 AMI used to work with attorneys from there for workman compensation cases and they would call it the shit hole of America.
Michigan does not make my top ten state list either. No offense Dove.
Quote from: Moonie on December 21, 2023, 09:45:41 AMI used to work with attorneys from there for workman compensation cases and they would call it the shit hole of America.
There are worse states but it definitely isn't one of the top states on my list.
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 08:56:49 AMI was just on a cruise two weeks ago and there were quite a few ppl from Michigan there.
They all seemed to hate living there according to them
They probably live in the metro area.
Everyone who hates living here lives in the metro area lol
I love Michigan. We have everything here. Every season. Country. Cities. Small towns. Rural farm communities. Waterfalls. Islands. Lakes. Everything.
Where is the logic of applying this insurrection provision when none of the Jan. 6 protesters has actually been convicted in court or even charged under the criminal statute that covers insurrection. Including Trump.
I have been reading since this outrageous court decision. I believe the Supreme Court strikes down the Colorado decision on procedural grounds and entirely ignores the substance of the case.
I'm referring to the political question doctrine in which judges can declare an issue as so fundamentally political that they have no business interfering in it. The court once laid out six factors in determining what qualifies as a political question.
Quote1 a textually demonstrable constitutional commitment of the issue to a coordinate political department; or
2 a lack of judicially discoverable and manageable standards for resolving it; or 3 the impossibility of deciding without an initial policy determination of a kind clearly for nonjudicial discretion; or
4 the impossibility of a court's undertaking independent resolution without expressing lack of the respect due coordinate branches of government; or [
5 an unusual need for unquestioning adherence to a political decision already made; or
6 the potentiality of embarrassment from multifarious pronouncements by various departments on one question
.
This is the likeliest way 75 million+ Americans get to vote for the candidate of their choice.
Quote from: Shen Li on December 21, 2023, 03:49:40 PMWhere is the logic of applying this insurrection provision when none of the Jan. 6 protesters has actually been convicted in court or even charged under the criminal statute that covers insurrection. Including Trump.
There is no logic. It's just "orange man bad"
It's the establishment grasping.
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 04:43:41 PMThere is no logic. It's just "orange man bad"
It's the establishment grasping.
I am finding myself in an awkward position. Like Oerdin, I'm not a Trump supporter. He wasn't able to accomplish much with congress in his first 2 years and he spent money like a socialist. However, denying millions and millions of Americans the right to cast a vote for the candidate of their choice is what Nicholas Maduro would do.
You should see how Chinese language media is reporting this. They are making the US out to be no better than North Korea with their political withch hunts.
The US is quickly losing credibility as as a transparent democracy on Biden's watch. Deservedly so too in my opinion.
The US is getting bad but at least it's not China....yet.
What a conundrum the vermin on the left have left themselves in
take trump off the ballot lose any shred a legitimacy you may have had
arrest trump for any of these bastardized claims you come up with and lose any shred a legitimacy you may have had
devise another way to cheat once again lose any shred a legitimacy you may have had
you can totally smell the fear oozing out of the pours of these rats as they run for higher ground on their sinking ship
scumbags
Quote from: Frood on December 21, 2023, 05:04:09 PMThe US is getting bad but at least it's not China....yet.
Canada is as bad as China now.
Quote from: Shen Li on December 21, 2023, 04:54:55 PMI am finding myself in an awkward position. Like Oerdin, I'm not a Trump supporter. He wasn't able to accomplish much with congress in his first 2 years and he spent money like a socialist. However, denying millions and millions of Americans the right to cast a vote for the candidate of their choice is what Nicholas Maduro would do.
You should see how Chinese language media is reporting this. They are making the US out to be no better than North Korea with their political withch hunts.
The US is quickly losing credibility as as a transparent democracy on Biden's watch. Deservedly so too in my opinion.
Can't say that I disagree however....of course congress was gonna block and complicate anything Trump wanted.
He did things I strongly oppose like the banning of bumpstocks and some overspending.
I voted for him in 2016. 2020 and if I can ill vote for him in 2024.
I didn't support the lockdowns either and he dropped the ball on that.
It's a beautiful vaccine
Yeah. Bullshit bro
But he's better than anyone they are running except Vivek
I'd actually prefer to see Vivek but it'll be a snow storm in hell before I ever vote for a stinking democrat for anything
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 09:03:43 PMIt's a beautiful vaccine
Yeah. Bullshit bro
But he's better than anyone they are running except Vivek
I'd actually prefer to see Vivek but it'll be a snow storm in hell before I ever vote for a stinking democrat for anything
To be fair....Trump was anti mandate. So there is that.
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 09:01:14 PMI didn't support the lockdowns either and he dropped the ball on that.
Trump blames Biden for inflation that is eating away at American wages. But, Trump sent a $3.1 billion COVID package to the Democratic congress. They approved it and wanted more.
you guys really need to read the opinions of the dissenting (sane) justices in this case
it will show you just how disgusting and low democrats really are
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-opinions-decision-trump-primary-ballot/
Scroll to the near bottom of the page and the pdf will be embedded within a frame
CHIEF JUSTICE BOATRIGHT dissenting.
¶258
I agree with the majority that an action brought under section 1-1-113, C.R.S.
(2023) of Colorado's election code ("Election Code")
may examine whether a candidate is qualified for office under the U.S. Constitution. But section 1-1-113 has a limited scope.
Kuhn v. Williams,
2018 CO 30M, ¶ 1 n.1, 418 P.3d 478, 480 n.1
(per curiam, unanimous) (emphasizing "the narrow nature of our review under
section 1-1-
113"). In my view, the claim at issue in this case exceeds that scope. The voters' (the "Electors") action to disqualify former President Donald J. Trump
under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment presents uniquely complex questions that exceed the adjudicative competence of section 1-1-
113's expedited
procedures. Simply put, section 1-1-113 was not enacted to decide whether a candidate engaged in insurrection. In my view, this cause of action should have been dismissed. Accordingly, I respectfully dissent.
I.
The Electors' Challenge Is Incompatible with a
Section 1-1-113 Proceeding
¶259
Section 1-1-113 provides for the resolution of potential election code violations in a timely manner. In many scenarios, Colorado voters can challenge
the Secretary of State's (the "Secretary") certification of a candidate's
qualifications.
Carson v. Reiner
, 2016 CO 38, ¶ 17, 370 P.3d 1137, 1141 (acknowledging that section 1-1-
113 "clearly comprehends challenges to a broad range of wrongful acts committed by [Colorado's election] officials charged with
2 duties under the code [and] comprehends a specific challenge to a designated
election official's certification of a candidate"). While section
1-1-113 only offers
voters a "narrow opportunity,"
Kuhn
, ¶ 28, 418 P.3d at 484, that opportunity has proven effective as voters have compelled the Secretary to omit from the ballot unqualified candidates whom they would have otherwise listed.
E.g.
,
id.
at ¶ 57, 418 P.3d at 489 (barring a candidate from the ballot because his petition circulator was not a Colorado resident). Section 1-1-
113's grant of disc
retionary review to
this court has also vindicated voters' rights by preventing a decision that would
have compelled the Secretary to place an unqualified candidate on the ballot.
Griswold v. Ferrigno Warren
, 2020 CO 34, ¶ 26, 462 P.3d 1081, 1087 (barring a candidate from the ballot because she failed to gather sufficient signatures).
¶260
Further, our election code suggests that a petitioner may base a challenge to
the Secretary's certification of an aspiring presidential primary candidate on
federal law.
Compare
§ 1-4-1203(2)(a), C.R.S. (2023) (stating that a candidate must
be "qualified"
),
with
§1-4-1201, C.R.S. (2023) (declaring that the code conforms to federal law);
see also
Coats v. Dish Network, LLC
, 2015 CO 44, ¶ 20, 350 P.3d 849, 853
(relying on federal law to interpret "lawful activity" in a Colorado statute). We
have previously held, however, that some federal law claims cannot be adjudicated under section 1-1-113.
E.g.
,
Frazier v. Williams
, 2017 CO 85, ¶ 19,
3 401 P.3d 541, 545 (concluding that a 42 U.S.C. § 1983 claim cannot be the basis of, or joined to, a section 1-1-113 action).
¶261
But not all federal questions exceed the scope of section 1-1-113. A qualification challenge under Article II, Section 1
1
or the Twenty-Second Amendment
2
lends itself to section 1-1-
113's procedures. Although a claim that a
candidate is not thirty-five years old may be easier to resolve than a claim that a candidate is not a natural born citizen, these presidential qualifications are characteristically objective, discernible facts. Age, time previously served as president, and place of birth all pa
rallel core qualification issues under Colorado's
election code.
3
Conversely, all these questions pale in comparison to the complexity of an action to disqualify a candidate for engaging in insurrection.
1
U.S. Const. art. II, § 1, cl. 5 provides the presidential qualifications: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
2
U.S. Const. amend. XXII, § 1 provides further presidential qualifications: No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
3
See also
Colorado Secretary of State,
Presidential Primary 2024 Candidate Qualification Guide
3, https://www.coloradosos.gov/pubs/elections/
4
¶262
Far from presenting a straightforward biographical question, Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment proscribes insurrectionist U.S. officers from again holding office. U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3. Unlike qualifications such as age and place of birth, an application of Section Three requires courts to define complex terms, determine legislative intent from over 150 years ago, and make factual findings foreign to our election code. The Electors contend that there is nothing
"particularly unusual about a section 1
-1-113 proceeding raising constitutional
issues." However, the framework that section 1
-1-113 offers for identifying qualified candidates is not commensurate with the extraordinary determination to disqualify a candidate because they engaged in insurrection against the Constitution.
See
Dis. op. ¶ 35
2 (Berkenkotter, J., dissenting) (noting that "the
historical application of section 1-1-113 . . . has been limited to challenges involving relatively straightforward issues, like whether a candidate meets a residency requirement for a school board
election."). Recognizing this limitation
of section 1-1-113 is not novel.
See Kuhn
, ¶ 1 n.1, 418 P.3d at 480 n.1 (emphasizing
"the narrow nature of our review under section 1
-1-
113" and declining to address a First Amendment challenge to Colorado's resid
ency requirement for petition Candidates/packets/2024PresidentialPrimaryGuide.pdf [https:// perma.cc/KK3L-X8BM]
(listing the "basic qualifications" for the presidency including the
qualifications from Article II and the Twenty-Second Amendment but not
mentioning the Fourteenth Amendment's disqualification for insurrectionists).
5
circulators "because such claims exceed this court's jurisdiction in a section 1
-1-113
action").
¶263
Dismissal is particularly appropriate here because the Electors brought their challenge without a determination from a proceeding (e.g., a prosecution for an insurrection-related offense) with more rigorous procedures to ensure adequate due process. Instead, the Electors relied on section 1-1-
113 and its "breakneck pace"
to declare President Trump a disqualified insurrectionist.
See
Frazier
, ¶ 11, 401 P.3d at 544.
II. As Demonstrated by the Proceeding Below, the Statutory Timeline for a Section 1-1-113 Proceeding Does Not
Permit a Claim as Complex as the Electors'
¶264
In addition to qualitative incompatibilities, the complexity of the El
ectors'
claims cannot be squared with section 1-1-
113's truncated timeline for
adjudication. Section 1-1-113 actions for presidential primary ballots fulfill a need for speed by requiring the district court to hold a hearing within
five days
and issue its decision within forty-eight hours of the hearing: Any such challenge must provide notice in a summary manner of an alleged impropriety that gives rise to the complaint. No later than five days after the challenge is filed, a hearing must be held at which time the district court shall hear the challenge and assess the validity of all alleged improprieties. The district court shall issue findings of fact and conclusions of law no later than forty-eight hours after the hearing. The party filing the challenge has the burden to sustain the challenge by a preponderance of the evidence.
6 § 1-4-1204, C.R.S. (2023). This speed comes with consequences, namely, the absence of procedures that courts, litigants, and the public would expect for complex constitutional litigation. As President Trump, argues and the Electors do not contest, section 1-1-
113's procedures do not provide common tools for
complex fact-finding: preliminary evidentiary or pre-trial motions hearings, subpoena powers, basic discovery, depositions, and time for disclosure of witnesses and exhibits. This same concern was raised in
Frazier
; the then-Secretary
argued that "
it is impossible to fully litigate a complex constitutional issue within days or weeks, as is typical of a section 1-1-113 proceeding.
" ¶ 18 n.3,
401 P.3d at 545 n.3. While we avoided deciding if a claim could be too complex for a section 1-1-113 proceeding in
Frazier
, that question is unavoidable here, and it demands that we reconcile the complexity of this issue with the breakneck pace of a section 1-1-113 procedure. In my view, the answer to this question is dispositive.
¶265
This case's procedural history proves my point. Despite clear requirements,
the district court did not follow section 1-4-
1204's statutory timeline for
section 1-1-113 claims. The proceeding below involved two delays that, respectively, violated (1) the requirement that the merits hearing be held within five days of the challenge being lodged, and (2) the requirement that the district court issue its order within forty-eight hours of the merits hearing.
7
¶266
The Electors filed their challenge on September 6, 2023. Although the question of whether this action should be removed to federal court was resolved by September 14, the district court did not hold an evidentiary hearing until
October 30. The majority appears to imply that a "status conference" on
September 18 fulfills the statutory requirement that the hearing be held within five d
ays of the Electors' challenge. Maj. op. ¶
83. However, a status conference
plainly does not satisfy the requirement: "No later than five days after the
challenge is filed, a hearing must be held
at which time the district court shall hear the challenge and assess the validity of all alleged improprieties
." §
1-4-1204 (emphasis added);
see Carson
, ¶ 21, 370 P.3d at 1142 (ruling that section 1-1-
113 "does not permit a challenge to an election official's certification of a candidate to the ballot,
solely o
n the basis of the certified candidate's qualification, once the period . . . for
challenging the qualification of the candidate directly has expired . . .
."). It is no
mystery why the statutory timeline could not be enforced: This claim was too complex.
4
The fact it took a week shy of two months to hold a hearing that "must"
take place within five days proves that section 1-1-113 is an incompatible vehicle
4
The intervals between the challenge and the hearing, and the hearing and the order, should not cast aspersions on the district court, which made valiant efforts to add some process above and beyond what the election code provides. However, the Colorado General Assembly, not the district court, decides when and how to change statutory requirements.
8 for this claim. The majority recognizes the five-day requirement, Maj. op. ¶ 38, but it does not acknowledge the violation of section 1-4-
1204's timeline or give
consequence to that violation.
¶267
Nonetheless, the majority touts the fact that a hearing was held and lauds
the district court's timely issuance of its decision as evidence that this matter
was not too complex for a section 1-1-113 proceeding. Maj. op. ¶¶ 84
–
85. But was the order timely issued? Substantially, I think not.
Compare
Maj. op. ¶
22 ("The trial
began, as scheduled, on October 30 [a Monday]. The evidentiary portion lasted five days [through Friday, November 3], with closing arguments almost two weeks later, on November 15. . . . The court issued its written final order on November 17 . . .
."),
with
§ 1-4-
1204 ("The district court shall issue findings of fact
and conclusions of law no later than forty-
eight hours after the hearing.").
Section 1-4-1204 only mandates two deadlines, and neither were honored. After all the evidence had been presented at a week-long hearing, the court suspended proceedings for two weeks. I find nothing in the record offering a reason grounded in the election code for the interval between the five consecutive days of the hearing and the solitary closing arguments. However, I understand the necessity to postpone the closing arguments for one reason: The complexity of the
case required more time than "no later than forty
-
eight hours after the hearing"
for the court to draft its 102-page order. Thus, while the district court formally
9 issued its order within forty-eight hours of the closing arguments, the interval between the evidentiary hearings and the closing arguments was not in compliance with section 1-4-1204.
¶268
The majority condoned the district court's failure to observe the statutory timeline by concluding that it "substantially compl[ied]."
See
Maj. op. ¶ 85. This
renders the statute's five
-day and forty-eight-hour requirements meaningless.
Contra
Ferrigno Warren
, ¶ 20, 462 P.3d at 1085 (holding that, under Colorado's election code, a "specific statutory command could not be ignored in the na
me of
substantial compliance");
Gallegos Fam. Props., LLC v. Colo. Groundwater Comm'n
,
2017 CO 73, ¶ 25, 398 P.3d 599, 608 ("Where the language is clear, we must apply the language as written."). If a court must contort a special proceeding's statutory
timeline to process a claim, then that claim is not proper for the special proceeding.
¶269
From my perspective, just because a hearing was held and Intervenors
participated, it doesn't mean that due process was observed. Nor should it be
inferred that section 1-1-
113's statutory procedures, which were not followed, were up to the task. I cannot agree with the majority that the district court's
extra-statutory delays and select procedure augmentations indicate that the
Electors' claim was fit for adjudication
under sections 1-4-1204(4) and 1-1-113.
Contra
, Maj. op. ¶
81 ("In short, the district court admirably—
and swiftly
—
discharged its duty to adjudicate this complex section 1-1-
113 action."). Dragging
10
someone through a "makeshift proceeding" is not an indic
ation that it was an appropriate process.
See
Dis. op. ¶ 274 (Samour, J., dissenting). Importantly, the
Electors were not rushed into the process; they didn't have to file their challenge
until they were prepared. Only Intervenors arguably had inadequate time to prepare.
¶270
Finally, only a two-thirds majority of both houses of Congress can overturn a Section Three disqualification. U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3. This remedy is extraordinary and speaks volumes about the gravity of the disqualification. Such a high bar indicates that an expedited hearing absent any discovery procedures and with a preponderance of the evidence standard is not the appropriate means for adjudicating a matter of this magnitude.
5
See Frazier
, ¶¶ 17
–
18, 401 P.3d at 545 (holding t
hat "inconsistencies" between the procedures of section 1
-1-113 and a
claim under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 "reinforce" the conclusion that not all federal law
claims can be raised in section 1-1-113 proceedings).
5
Although the district court made its findings using the clear and convincing standard, the election code calls for a preponderance standard. § 1-4-
1204 ("The
party filing the challenge has the burden to sustain the challenge by a
preponderance of the evidence.").
11
III. Conclusion
¶271
My opinion that this is an inadequate cause of action is dictated by the facts of this case, particularly the absence of a criminal conviction for an insurrection-related offense.
¶272
The questions presented here simply reach a magnitude of complexity not contemplated by the Colorado General Assembly for its election code enforcement statute. The proceedings below ran counter to the letter and spirit of the statutory
timeframe because the Electors' claim overwhelmed the process. In the absence of
an insurrection-related conviction, I would hold that a request to disqualify a candidate under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment is not a proper cause
of action under Colorado's election code. Therefore, I would dismiss the claim at
issue here. Accordingly, I respectfully dissent
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 11:28:34 PMyou guys really need to read the opinions of the dissenting (sane) justices in this case
it will show you just how disgusting and low democrats really are
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-opinions-decision-trump-primary-ballot/
Scroll to the near bottom of the page and the pdf will be embedded within a frame
I read it, but I did not need the dissenting judges to tell me the obvious-the democRATs hate democracy.
I believe that even democRATS can see they have gone too far this time. This could put Trump to 270 electoral votes even if the Supreme Court reverses Colorado's decision.
Democrats privately admit the inevitable after Colorado bars Trump from ballot: 'Attempting election interference'
https://www.theblaze.com/news/democrats-panic-trump-ballot-colorado?utm_source=theblaze-dailyPM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Newsletter__PM%202023-12-21&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Daily%20PM
Democrats are privately upset with the Colorado Supreme Court because they believe the ruling that bars Donald Trump from the Colorado ballot will ultimately help the former president.
The message of President Joe Biden's campaign is clear: Trump is an existential threat to American democracy. But officials in the Biden administration and Biden campaign fear the Colorado Supreme Court has undercut that narrative.
NBC News, citing sources, reported that officials in both the White House and Biden campaign are "pissed" with the Colorado Supreme Court because the ruling makes it look "like Colorado is attempting election interference through non-elected Democratic-appointed justices with funding from 'shady left-wing donors.'"
In fact, Democratic officials are so worried about the political ramifications of the ruling that they hope Supreme Court justices unanimously rule in Trump's favor if and when they hear an appeal of the Colorado decision.
"We all hope Biden wakes up on Christmas morning to an A3 story in the Delaware News Journal saying that the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in favor of Trump," a Democratic source told NBC News.
That another legal judgment against Trump would help his campaign is not a surprise. After all, Trump's polling only went up after his criminal indictments, and he now leads Biden in most polls.
Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis told NBC News the Colorado decision "feeds the Trump persecution complex." But it does more than that. For the average American, the decision proves it.
Not only are three different prosecutors hoping to bring Trump to trial in the middle of the 2024 campaign, but now four non-elected, Democrat-appointed justices have removed Trump from one state's ballot. It's a bad look for Biden and Democrats, who are on the side that claims to be the defenders of American democracy, especially when they decried election security laws in Georgia as Jim Crow 2.0.
Former Attorney General Bill Barr summarized the political impact that Colorado's decision will have on voters.
"This kind of action of stretching the law, taking these hyper-aggressive positions to try to knock Trump out of the race, are counterproductive. They backfire," he said on CNN. "He feeds on grievance just like a fire feeds on oxygen. This is going to end up as a grievance that helps him."
Quote from: Herman on December 21, 2023, 11:39:50 PMI believe that even democRATS can see they have gone too far this time. This could put Trump to 270 electoral votes even if the Supreme Court reverses Colorado's decision.
Democrats privately admit the inevitable after Colorado bars Trump from ballot: 'Attempting election interference'
https://www.theblaze.com/news/democrats-panic-trump-ballot-colorado?utm_source=theblaze-dailyPM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Newsletter__PM%202023-12-21&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Daily%20PM
Democrats are privately upset with the Colorado Supreme Court because they believe the ruling that bars Donald Trump from the Colorado ballot will ultimately help the former president.
The message of President Joe Biden's campaign is clear: Trump is an existential threat to American democracy. But officials in the Biden administration and Biden campaign fear the Colorado Supreme Court has undercut that narrative.
NBC News, citing sources, reported that officials in both the White House and Biden campaign are "pissed" with the Colorado Supreme Court because the ruling makes it look "like Colorado is attempting election interference through non-elected Democratic-appointed justices with funding from 'shady left-wing donors.'"
In fact, Democratic officials are so worried about the political ramifications of the ruling that they hope Supreme Court justices unanimously rule in Trump's favor if and when they hear an appeal of the Colorado decision.
"We all hope Biden wakes up on Christmas morning to an A3 story in the Delaware News Journal saying that the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in favor of Trump," a Democratic source told NBC News.
That another legal judgment against Trump would help his campaign is not a surprise. After all, Trump's polling only went up after his criminal indictments, and he now leads Biden in most polls.
Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis told NBC News the Colorado decision "feeds the Trump persecution complex." But it does more than that. For the average American, the decision proves it.
Not only are three different prosecutors hoping to bring Trump to trial in the middle of the 2024 campaign, but now four non-elected, Democrat-appointed justices have removed Trump from one state's ballot. It's a bad look for Biden and Democrats, who are on the side that claims to be the defenders of American democracy, especially when they decried election security laws in Georgia as Jim Crow 2.0.
Former Attorney General Bill Barr summarized the political impact that Colorado's decision will have on voters.
"This kind of action of stretching the law, taking these hyper-aggressive positions to try to knock Trump out of the race, are counterproductive. They backfire," he said on CNN. "He feeds on grievance just like a fire feeds on oxygen. This is going to end up as a grievance that helps him."
No No... but according to that Liam Numbnuts douchebag Trump is really taking a beating over this :crampe: :crampe:
TDS causes brain aneurysm for real
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 11:42:30 PMNo No... but according to that Liam Numbnuts douchebag Trump is really taking a beating over this :crampe: :crampe:
TDS causes brain aneurysm for real
Who is that? Some clown guest on the View.
Quote from: Herman on December 21, 2023, 11:50:08 PMWho is that? Some clown guest on the View.
Some asshole guest who wandered out of his bastard factory cage
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 11:50:59 PMSome asshole guest who wandered out of his bastard factory cage
He sounds like a really bright fella. :crampe:
Quote from: Oerdin on December 21, 2023, 01:18:37 PMThere are worse states but it definitely isn't one of the top states on my list.
I'm sure there are. I can count California is one that I will never visit again. My list is getting bigger each day.
A Biden official's Democrat-aligned group successfully got President Joe Biden's top rival removed from the ballot in Colorado ahead of the 2024 election. The 81-year-old president wasted no time justifying this limit on voter choice, regurgitating familiar alarmist rhetoric Wednesday night about former President Donald Trump posing a threat to democracy.
A Dem group blocked Trump's candidacy and Biden says Trump is the one who is a threat to demomcracy. :crazy:
Biden's remarks were not well received.
The geriatric president has since been accused of "gaslighting," fascism, and hypocrisy over his projection of anti-democratic sentiments onto his now-verboten political opponent — an opponent who has been leading in the polls in several critical swing states.
Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton wrote on X, "Biden tries to justify abusing Trump's civil rights and rigging the election through political prosecutions and kangaroo court proceedings. Our Republic is tottering because of Biden's abuses."
Blaze TV host Mark Levin noted, "The Biden campaign is well underway: dehumanize Trump by using the fascist/Marxist tactic of dehumanizing your opponent and repeating the big lie that Trump is Hitler, block Trump from ballot access in blue states while claiming it is he who opposed democracy, drain Trump of personal and campaign resources through civil and criminal lawsuits aka lawfare, keep Trump in court after court to prevent him from running a proper campaign, ultimately convict him of some phony crime and sentence him to prison."
Mollie Hemingway, editor in chief at the Federalist, responded, "Disgusting rhetoric from the president, showing his complete support for his administration's authoritarian attack on Republicans, and his support for other Democrat Party attacks on the republic."
"The greatest threat to democracy is the person tied or leading me in current polls," wrote Stephen Miller, contributing editor at the Spectator.
While Biden has been hyping this supposed threat for well over a year, Trump now appears to be recycling the accusation.
During a speech Saturday in New Hampshire, Trump said, "It's no wonder Biden and the far-left lunatics are desperate to stop us by any means necessary. They're willing to violate the U.S. Constitution at levels never seen before in order to win. They will do anything to win. They'll do whatever they have, whatever they can. And remember, this: Joe Biden is a threat to democracy. He's a threat."
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 02:11:15 PMThey probably live in the metro area.
Everyone who hates living here lives in the metro area lol
I love Michigan. We have everything here. Every season. Country. Cities. Small towns. Rural farm communities. Waterfalls. Islands. Lakes. Everything.
I do want to see the lakes and waterfalls I heard it's absolutely beautiful. He just cracked me up. Wanted me to visit his home in Naples. He was very kind and generous. Sadly can't remember his name now it's been so long.
Quote from: Moonie on December 22, 2023, 09:44:59 AMI do want to see the lakes and waterfalls I heard it's absolutely beautiful. He just cracked me up. Wanted me to visit his home in Naples. He was very kind and generous. Sadly can't remember his name now it's been so long.
I go to Florida every winter. I will be going next month. I love that state.
My man told me last night that Vivek is saying if Trump gets taken off, than take him off as well.
Goddammit lol.
Like i get it. I do. But NO! Not now man. Not now lol
He's trying to inspire the rest of the candidates to do the same so that it becomes a wash
It's smart but at the same time stupid
stupid because obviously he's not used to dealing with the spinelessness of your average republican politician
One thing you have to give to democrats is that they stick together no matter how low they go.
Quote from: Moonie on December 22, 2023, 09:34:35 AMI'm sure there are. I can count California is one that I will never visit again. My list is getting bigger each day.
I am still in California but on one of the most conservative coastal areas. The state government still causes problems but by and large locally things are still good plus I can do things to escape some of the worst taxes and regulations (like shop on base, or in Mexico, or in either Arizona or Nevada). Plus both my and my wife's families are still mostly here. Though how long that will last is a question.
I keep thinking some sane people need to stay to help fight to make it better but it seems to not be working.
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 21, 2023, 11:28:34 PMyou guys really need to read the opinions of the dissenting (sane) justices in this case
it will show you just how disgusting and low democrats really are
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-supreme-court-opinions-decision-trump-primary-ballot/
Scroll to the near bottom of the page and the pdf will be embedded within a frame
It is worth noting that although the Colorado state supreme court is made up of seven Democrats; three of them still understood how stupid and criminal this politically motivated partisan abuse of power truly was.
A friend of mine from college moved to upstate Michigan because his wife is from there. They live on a farm, run a bed and breakfast, and he acts as a fishing guide during the fishing season. They seem to like it.
Quote from: Oerdin on December 22, 2023, 05:35:16 PMA friend of mine from college moved to upstate Michigan because his wife is from there. They live on a farm, run a bed and breakfast, and he acts as a fishing guide during the fishing season. They seem to like it.
The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is beautiful.
Quote from: Brent on December 22, 2023, 05:57:42 PMThe Upper Peninsula of Michigan is beautiful.
Anyone who shits on Michigan has only seen the metro Detroit area.
I'm from Troy, which is in Oakland county....metro area but one of the nicer ones.
When I was a child I would come here on weekends and breaks and summers to my great aunts house. It used to be farmlands and horse farms and my aunt had 6 acres. With a barn and ponds. So I grew playing outside here in Troy.
Didn't meet my boyfriend until we moved here into my aunts house and he lives in a subdivision a mile and around the corner away from my aunts. So I used to sneak out a lot to come see him and he would always drive me back home.
That property and house was right on a main road. My aunt sold it 19 years ago. The house was a controlled burn down and the property was cleared for a subdivision. So...a subdivision now sits where my aunts house and property once was.
Every time we are out doing arrends and pass it, it's like a gut punch. It's so weird passing it. My boyfriend said he can't get used to it either. And he saw it cleared and built. I've mostly stayed out of Troy for the past 20 except when I'd come here to see him...and that was just passing through.
Actually living here again is so strange. Like a weird dream. So much is the same but there is a lot of new stuff. Well new to me. Like buildings built 17 years ago...I'll say "oh that's new" and he is like..."that's been there over a decade" lol. Well I haven't lived here in 2 decades so it's new to me. He forgets that.
It's good to be home but it's metro....maybe my most familiar and comfortable slice of metro...but...metro sucks. I like country. Acres of land. Lakes. Farms.
Not subs and buildings everywhere.
He has started talking about letting his brother buy him out and moving.
Troy used to be beautiful before people over infested it.
Quote from: Dove on December 22, 2023, 07:44:08 PMI'm from Troy, which is in Oakland county....metro area but one of the nicer ones.
When I was a child I would come here on weekends and breaks and summers to my great aunts house. It used to be farmlands and horse farms and my aunt had 6 acres. With a barn and ponds. So I grew playing outside here in Troy.
Didn't meet my boyfriend until we moved here into my aunts house and he lives in a subdivision a mile and around the corner away from my aunts. So I used to sneak out a lot to come see him and he would always drive me back home.
That property and house was right on a main road. My aunt sold it 19 years ago. The house was a controlled burn down and the property was cleared for a subdivision. So...a subdivision now sits where my aunts house and property once was.
Every time we are out doing arrends and pass it, it's like a gut punch. It's so weird passing it. My boyfriend said he can't get used to it either. And he saw it cleared and built. I've mostly stayed out of Troy for the past 20 except when I'd come here to see him...and that was just passing through.
Actually living here again is so strange. Like a weird dream. So much is the same but there is a lot of new stuff. Well new to me. Like buildings built 17 years ago...I'll say "oh that's new" and he is like..."that's been there over a decade" lol. Well I haven't lived here in 2 decades so it's new to me. He forgets that.
It's good to be home but it's metro....maybe my most familiar and comfortable slice of metro...but...metro sucks. I like country. Acres of land. Lakes. Farms.
Not subs and buildings everywhere.
He has started talking about letting his brother buy him out and moving.
Troy used to be beautiful before people over infested it.
Hey Doves!
That reminds me of here. When I moved up onto this hill the town I'm in had 3,500 people in it. There were fields and prairie and timber all around. Now there's 37,000 + last census. No more fields or prairie. Only little pockets of timber here and there.
When I drive along I wonder where the fuck all these people came from and where the fuck do they all work.
And the worst thing is, most of them are fucking Democrats!
Quote from: Dove on December 22, 2023, 06:03:54 PMAnyone who shits on Michigan has only seen the metro Detroit area.
I had to go to GM Tech training in Wixom years ago. What a fukin shithole area! All the truck tankers look like their on steroids, weird. There was a car museum I went to that was cool tho.
Quote from: Reggie Essent on December 22, 2023, 08:53:49 PMHey Doves!
That reminds me of here. When I moved up onto this hill the town I'm in had 3,500 people in it. There were fields and prairie and timber all around. Now there's 37,000 + last census. No more fields or prairie. Only little pockets of timber here and there.
When I drive along I wonder where the fuck all these people came from and where the fuck do they all work.
And the worst thing is, most of them are fucking Democrats!
Yep. I have so many good childhood memories of that house and that property. Breaks my heart everytime we drive past and my mind is still expecting to see my house and in its place...a fucking subdivision.
And I'm sure most are democrats here, too.
My man's parents were democrats and also secular nonbelievers. I mean they were old school dems and there is no way they would have supported this woke shit.
But him? He has been a republican since before he was old enough to vote. And he is Catholic....albeit not really practicing and he has a thing about being inside churches.
And there are so many churches here now too. Romanian churches. Arabic and Serbian churches. So many churches...and not a single reformed church that is just for everyone.
Ridiculous how built up it is here now.
Good to see you, Reg. I was gonna email you to check on you.
Quote from: Lokmar on December 22, 2023, 09:04:23 PMI had to go to GM Tech training in Wixom years ago. What a fukin shithole area! All the truck tankers look like their on steroids, weird. There was a car museum I went to that was cool tho.
The Henry Ford museum? Uhg. I got drug there while I was 8 months pregnant with my now 18 year old. Is was pure hell lol.
Yeah the metro area sucks. It's just a small part of an otherwise amazing and beautiful state.
Over on the other side where Grand Rapids and Muskegon are suck bad too.
Quote from: Dove on December 22, 2023, 09:15:43 PMGood to see you, Reg. I was gonna email you to check on you.
You're a goof. I just took some time away. I ain't as addicted to poasting like I used to be or like most here still are. ;)
Plus, with the world gone so insane, I ain't had much to comment on.
Quote from: Reggie Essent on December 22, 2023, 09:28:24 PMYou're a goof. I just took some time away. I ain't as addicted to poasting like I used to be or like most here still are. ;)
Plus, with the world gone so insane, I ain't had much to comment on.
the whole world really has gone to shit. With the US leading the charge under the direction of leftist vermin scum
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 22, 2023, 09:31:40 PMthe whole world really has gone to shit. With the US leading the charge under the direction of leftist vermin scum
Agreed. I have to wonder how Middle Eastern countries, Russia, and North Korea are reporting recent events in the United States.
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 22, 2023, 09:31:40 PMthe whole world really has gone to shit. With the US leading the charge under the direction of leftist vermin scum
I'm saying, man. You couldn't have sold a movie script for the shit going down today just a few years back. They'd have told you that no one would believe it because it was just too crazy.
Quote from: Dove on December 22, 2023, 09:17:54 PMThe Henry Ford museum? Uhg. I got drug there while I was 8 months pregnant with my now 18 year old. Is was pure hell lol.
Yeah the metro area sucks. It's just a small part of an otherwise amazing and beautiful state.
Over on the other side where Grand Rapids and Muskegon are suck bad too.
No, it was in Novi. They had a jet car and the Novi engine on display. It was close to where I stayed for the weeks training.
Quote from: Lokmar on December 22, 2023, 11:29:34 PMNo, it was in Novi. They had a jet car and the Novi engine on display. It was close to where I stayed for the weeks training.
Novi sucks lol
Quote from: Reggie Essent on December 22, 2023, 08:53:49 PMHey Doves!
That reminds me of here. When I moved up onto this hill the town I'm in had 3,500 people in it. There were fields and prairie and timber all around. Now there's 37,000 + last census. No more fields or prairie. Only little pockets of timber here and there.
When I drive along I wonder where the fuck all these people came from and where the fuck do they all work.
And the worst thing is, most of them are fucking Democrats!
I am very sorry about that.
Quote from: Reggie Essent on December 22, 2023, 08:53:49 PMHey Doves!
That reminds me of here. When I moved up onto this hill the town I'm in had 3,500 people in it. There were fields and prairie and timber all around. Now there's 37,000 + last census. No more fields or prairie. Only little pockets of timber here and there.
When I drive along I wonder where the fuck all these people came from and where the fuck do they all work.
And the worst thing is, most of them are fucking Democrats!
Ugh... I couldn't live surrounded by leftist vermin filth democrats.
I have ONE neighbor who is a democrat and everyone around us hates her.
I've yet to deal with her personally so my loathing is simply because she's a democrat but I hear she's quite the handful
she's actually at war with the contractor who did her roof because he backed a disposal truck up her garage driveway to throw in the waste from the old roof and she says it cracked her driveway.
SHe's full of shit and everyone says she does this to contractors constantly to avoid paying the bill. Her roof is about 95% complete.
convenient huh? How she waited so close to the very end to suddenly see these mysterious cracks in the driveway that no one else sees?
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 23, 2023, 10:38:26 AMUgh... I couldn't live surrounded by leftist vermin filth democrats.
I have ONE neighbor who is a democrat and everyone around us hates her.
I've yet to deal with her personally so my loathing is simply because she's a democrat but I hear she's quite the handful
she's actually at war with the contractor who did her roof because he backed a disposal truck up her garage driveway to throw in the waste from the old roof and she says it cracked her driveway.
SHe's full of shit and everyone says she does this to contractors constantly to avoid paying the bill. Her roof is about 95% complete.
convenient huh? How she waited so close to the very end to suddenly see these mysterious cracks in the driveway that no one else sees?
So many Democrats are unethical.
Quote from: Dove on December 22, 2023, 06:03:54 PMAnyone who shits on Michigan has only seen the metro Detroit area.
I was around eight when I first went to Michigan. My Aunt and her husband lived in the suburbs of Detroit so my family went to visit my mother's sister's family. I can remember being eight years old and thinking Detroit was a fucking shit hole. Outside of the city it was cold (I am from San Diego so anything under 72 is cold to me) but outside of the city is was pretty cool. Fishing, collecting crab apples, my aunt making upper Midwest foods I had never heard of, though my older cousins could be dicks.
One memory was realizing swimming in lake Michigan meant the water was not salty. At 8 I was used to swimming in the Pacific and if any water got into your mouth it was salty as hell plus you had to shower after you got out because the salt would form on your skin.
Quote from: Oerdin on December 23, 2023, 03:29:20 PMI was around eight when I first went to Michigan. My Aunt and her husband lived in the suburbs of Detroit so my family went to visit my wife's family. I can remember being eight years old and thinking Detroit was a fucking shit hole. Outside of the city it was cold (I am from San Diego so anything under 72 is cold to me) but outside of the city is was pretty cool. Fishing, collecting crab apples, my aunt making upper Midwest foods I had never heard of, though my older cousins could be dicks.
One memory was realizing swimming in lake Michigan meant the water was not salty. At 8 I was used to swimming in the Pacific and if any water got into your mouth it was salty as hell plus you had to shower after you got out because the salt would form on your skin.
If any guy or gal loves the outdoors and hunting and fishing, It don't get much better than Northern Michigan.
Quote from: Biggie Smiles on December 19, 2023, 10:44:59 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tESIMGFBkFU
I think the Colorado court was right to remove Trump from the ballot, Bigly.
That whole January 6 debacle was Trump's fault.
If he hadn't bothered raising such a ruckus, Trump'd be on the ballot this time no problem. Probably smoking Biden too.
But Trump blew it. He simply blew it for himself in 2024, eh.
Didnt play his cards right.
Fuck off Joe and stop screwing up our discussions with your trolling. Nobody on January 6 was convicted of insurrection. Trump was not convicted of insurrection.
The Coloarado court was all democRATs and even three of them disagreed. The Supreme Court will overturn this, guaranteed.
Jim Crow Joe aint no different than Putin or Zelenskyy. They both have blocked their political opponents from running against them.
Former television journalist Yekaterina Duntsova has been blocked from running as an independent candidate in Russia's upcoming presidential election against President Vladimir Putin.
However, the Central Electoral Commission rejected her application, citing "mistakes in documents" according to Russian television reports.
Quote from: Oerdin on December 23, 2023, 03:29:20 PMI was around eight when I first went to Michigan. My Aunt and her husband lived in the suburbs of Detroit so my family went to visit my mother's sister's family. I can remember being eight years old and thinking Detroit was a fucking shit hole. Outside of the city it was cold (I am from San Diego so anything under 72 is cold to me) but outside of the city is was pretty cool. Fishing, collecting crab apples, my aunt making upper Midwest foods I had never heard of, though my older cousins could be dicks.
One memory was realizing swimming in lake Michigan meant the water was not salty. At 8 I was used to swimming in the Pacific and if any water got into your mouth it was salty as hell plus you had to shower after you got out because the salt would form on your skin.
Yep. Leave the metro area and this state is stunning and has it all.
I've moved and lived in 7 different states and I always end up coming home.
And the metro area is just a chunk. Most of this state is beautiful nature and rural country areas. Our waterfalls and lakes and islands are amazing.
And we even have a whole peninsula!
Shitting on Michigan as a whole because of metro is like having a small rash on your ankle and saying your entire skin is ruined.
Did I express that right? Hahaha.
Seriously guys come visit MI and go literally anywhere but the Detroit area. You'll love it.
Quote from: JOE on December 23, 2023, 03:44:59 PMI think the Colorado court was right to remove Trump from the ballot, Bigly.
That whole January 6 debacle was Trump's fault.
If he hadn't bothered raising such a ruckus, Trump'd be on the ballot this time no problem. Probably smoking Biden too.
But Trump blew it. He simply blew it for himself in 2024, eh.
Didnt play his cards right.
I love how leftists and dems get to riot and destroy and occupy capital buildings and shoot at senators and use explosives and that's barely talked about
But the minute Republicans and right wingers so much as start a protest everyone clutches their pearls and goes hysterical.
Like we are all supposed to sit down and shut up. But the dems and left can be as violent and destructive as they want. They can burn down towns and murder children.
It's only insurrection if the opposing party protests.
Quote from: JOE on December 23, 2023, 03:44:59 PMI think the Colorado court was right to remove Trump from the ballot, Bigly.
No, it was dead wrong and it will be reversed by SCOTUS. Where is the logic of applying this insurrection provision when none of the Jan. 6 protesters has actually been convicted in court or even charged under the criminal statute that covers insurrection. Including Trump.
In other words they are saying he is guilty of a crime for which nobody has been convicted. Trump will be on the ballot in Colorado. This can't and won't stand. I'm certain of it.
Quote from: Shen Li on December 23, 2023, 06:10:27 PMNo, it was dead wrong and it will be reversed by SCOTUS. Where is the logic of applying this insurrection provision when none of the Jan. 6 protesters has actually been convicted in court or even charged under the criminal statute that covers insurrection. Including Trump.
In other words they are saying he is guilty of a crime for which nobody has been convicted. Trump will be on the ballot in Colorado. This can't and won't stand. I'm certain of it.
Just like how he's being prosecuted in New York for "over inflating" property values to secure loans, a "crime" for which there is no complaintant and no individual or corporate entity that has been defrauded.
Like I said somewhere else, you couldn't have sold a fiction novel about shit like this just five or six years ago because it's so fucking crazy.
Quote from: Reggie Essent on December 23, 2023, 06:58:17 PMJust like how he's being prosecuted in New York for "over inflating" property values to secure loans, a "crime" for which there is no complaintant and no individual or corporate entity that has been defrauded.
And a crime which is IMPOSSIBLE to commit against any major lending institutions such as the ones allegedly defrauded as these institutions have entire departments dedicated to nothing but the processes of appraising property value and analyzing risk
When you see libtards cheering this shit what's really happening is they are revealing to you just how incredibly stupid they really are
And we havent even delved into the fact that you have a NYC judge doing his own appraisals of properties literally a thousand miles out of his jurisdiction or the fact that each and every one of these alleged victims was paid back every penny of the loans which are in question
Quote from: Dove on December 23, 2023, 05:05:57 PMI love how leftists and dems get to riot and destroy and occupy capital buildings and shoot at senators and use explosives and that's barely talked about
But the minute Republicans and right wingers so much as start a protest everyone clutches their pearls and goes hysterical.
Like we are all supposed to sit down and shut up. But the dems and left can be as violent and destructive as they want. They can burn down towns and murder children.
It's only insurrection if the opposing party protests.
Y'know Dovey Dear, I don't like any of them on the Right or the supposed 'Liberal Left'. They both need to clean house. I don't care much for Biden or Trudeau in my country either. The political leadership and the people who run for office seem rather weak these days. So ifya think I'm being hard on Trump, I'm just as hard on the Left too.
Truth be known, the USA and our country too needs a true New Deal like that FDR did in the Great Depression/1930s. Capitalism needs real reform, wealth needs to be re-distributed, if anything to keep it alive and so we don't turn into some feudal world. The capitalist system now is a joke.
Some things I'd change if I could:
1. Tax the Ultra Rich. If not when they are alive, then most certainly when they die by allowing them to choose where they would like to leave their money. Roads, schools, hospitals, whatever. Impose a higher tax on the ultra rich such as Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and the other super rich. They can't take their money with them when they die anyway. And passing it all on their children only creates another dynastical monarchy, which is precisely why the US was formed in the first place. To be free of them an redistribute the wealth back to the people which were the colonials back then.
2. Punish the Land Hoarders. So that anyone owning more than one home and vacation home pays significantly more than the average family who are just trying to live in one house and provide for their children.
Foreinstance, the US should force people like Larry Ellison to give up the Island of Lanai so that other Americans can own it too. Just one man owns over 97% of that Island. Ellison doesn't practice traditional capitalism. He practices gluttony and excessive greed.
3. Punish companies that send their labor overseas to cut costs at the expense of Western jobs. But provide them with incentives to bring the jobs home.
4. Force feed the 3rd world with contraception so they don't flood our borders/the West. Yes I believe border controls are needed, but they have to work on the population explosion from those 3rd world countries too so they don't try to stampede into the richer ones.
Our world is severely overpopulated and our resources are diminishing. Even hard core conservatives agree with me on that.
I know I am going to regret responding to an obvious troll post, but it's Christmas and I am feeling charitable.
QuoteCapitalism needs real reform, wealth needs to be re-distributed, if anything to keep it alive and so we don't turn into some feudal world. The capitalist system now is a joke.
On this Joe is correct. True free enterprise does not exist anymore. As governments in both Canada and the US have grown larger and more powerful they have encroached on all areas of society that used to be independent of the state.
They have annexed(indirectly) corporations and made them agents. They take more taxes from the people and give them to corporations to produce goods and services the central government wants rather than what consumers demand. They pressure businesses to hire who they want rather than the most capable for job vacancies.
Quote1. Tax the Ultra Rich.
In Canada, I read before Trudeau took office the top ten percent paid fifty five percent of all taxes. That figure has grown even more skewed in the last decade.
In the US, in 2018 after Donald Trump's tax reforms that eleiminated the SALT deduction for high income earners, the top 1% of income earners—those who earned more than $540,000—earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.
Income from taxation has gone up steadily, but it hasn't translated into more and better "roads, schools, hospitals, whatever." Instead it goes to crony capitalism in the form of the IRA, CHIPs and Biden's infrastructure plan which is loaded with green grift.
Quote2. Punish the Land Hoarders. So that anyone owning more than one home and vacation home pays significantly more than the average family who are just trying to live in one house and provide for their children.
This is strange. Who punishes and how? Housing is not a federal responsibility in either Canada or the USA although both Biden and Trudeau have interfered with local and provincial/state jurisdiction with green building rules that have added thousands of dollars to the price of each dwelling.
Quote3. Punish companies that send their labor overseas
Donald Trump must have been your favourite president. This was one of the areas where I strongly disagreed with the forty fifth president. Companies didn't pay for those tariffs, American consumers did.
I realize the idea is to bring production lines back to the US. That is a big gamble betting on companies to spend a fortune closing production lines in one country to build new production chains in another.
Quote4. Force feed the 3rd world with contraception so they don't flood our borders/the West.
New colonialism. Good luck with that.
Her's a crazy idea, but it proven to work. incentivize developing coutries to build their economies. We know from examples in Asia that the better educated and more prosperous people are, the lower the fertility rate.
The American federal government wasted $900 billion dollars. Does anyone seriously think they need more revenue? Does anyone trust Ottawa or Washington with more revenue? If you do you are easily duped.
Quote from: DKG on December 24, 2023, 01:21:34 PMThe American federal government wasted $900 billion dollars. Does anyone seriously think they need more revenue? Does anyone trust Ottawa or Washington with more revenue? If you do you are easily duped.
As a traditional socialist, I used to be a strong proponent of taxing the hell out of billionaires. But, then I asked myself why most billionaires want higher taxes on themselves. It is because most of that money will come back to them in grants for something prog governments want--usually green junk.
Now I don't know what is the solution. If rich progs are telling us it's good for us, we can be sure it is good only for rich progs.
I want reduced class sizes, road improvements, and of course improved health care. I guess the only real solution is a moratorium on immigration.
Quote from: Dove on December 21, 2023, 08:50:16 PMCan't say that I disagree however....of course congress was gonna block and complicate anything Trump wanted.
He did things I strongly oppose like the banning of bumpstocks and some overspending.
I voted for him in 2016. 2020 and if I can ill vote for him in 2024.
He doesn't seem to know how to work with congress. Even when he had a majority. Makes sense, he's not a politician. He's an anti-poliitician.
Quote from: DKG on December 24, 2023, 01:21:34 PMThe American federal government wasted $900 billion dollars. Does anyone seriously think they need more revenue? Does anyone trust Ottawa or Washington with more revenue? If you do you are easily duped.
I think I understand people like Joe. He is an older guy born in Canada. He remembers when this was a pragmatic nation that had citizen's interests at heart. Sadly, that is no longer the case.
For almost 10 years now, Ottawa has taken more money and freedoms from Canadians. Are we better off? Of course not. The result is that this country that I was so proud of in the 90's when we immigrated here is in rapid and probably irreversible decline.
Giving Ottawa more money is about the worse thing you could do. The more money they get, the worse off we have become. Higher tax revenues doesn't trickle down to us.
Give them less money and we will prosper and be freer. It happened in the 90's and disposable incomes soared and infrastructure was superior. Of course, it doesn't matter how smart Ottawa becomes with our money if you take in 1.5 million immigrants in a single year. We can't possibly afford that.
Quote from: Shen Li on December 24, 2023, 05:33:05 PMI think I understand people like Joe. He is an older guy born in Canada. He remembers when this was a pragmatic nation that had citizen's interests at heart. Sadly, that is no longer the case.
For almost 10 years now, Ottawa has taken more money and freedoms from Canadians. Are we better off? Of course not. The result is that this country that I was so proud of in the 90's when we immigrated here is in rapid and probably irreversible decline.
Giving Ottawa more money is about the worse thing you could do. The more money they get, the worse off we have become. Higher tax revenues doesn't trickle down to us.
Give them less money and we will prosper and be freer. It happened in the 90's and disposable incomes soared and infrastructure was superior. Of course, it doesn't matter how smart Ottawa becomes with our money if you take in 1.5 million immigrants in a single year. We can't possibly afford that.
He only posts in discussions like this to troll and get under people's skin.
Quote from: DKG on December 25, 2023, 11:52:55 AMHe only posts in discussions like this to troll and get under people's skin.
Maybe, but there are older Canadian born people that still think governments in this country have their best interests at heart.
The Colorado decision harkens back to the Reconstruction era, a section of the Constitution, of the 14th Amendment, that doesn't ever mention the word president and requires somebody to have been involved in insurrection or rebellion against the government.
Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C. announced Thursday he will introduce a measure to restrict federal funds to states that block candidates' ballot access as soon as Congress returns to session early next year, after Maine's secretary of state decided to block former President Donald Trump from the ballot.
The senator drafted the legislation, the Constitutional Election Integrity Act, in response to a similar decision that was made by the Colorado Supreme Court last week to bar the former president from appearing on the Colorado ballot.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, one man called for protesters to storm the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. That same man will not spend a day behind bars. If the federal prosecutors had wanted to prove that Ray Epps was a federal asset that day, they couldn't have done a better job.
Ray Epps first appeared on the government's most-wanted list days after January 6, 2021, but was promptly and mysteriously removed. That led to speculation that Epps might have been a government agent. Dozens of videos surfaced over the past three years showing Epps involved in behavior that, under the January 6 rules, should have resulted in an armed pre-dawn raid, pretrial detention, multiple felony charges, and ultimately, years in federal prison.
Quote from: Thiel on January 11, 2024, 07:39:10 PMBeyond a shadow of a doubt, one man called for protesters to storm the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. That same man will not spend a day behind bars. If the federal prosecutors had wanted to prove that Ray Epps was a federal asset that day, they couldn't have done a better job.
Ray Epps first appeared on the government's most-wanted list days after January 6, 2021, but was promptly and mysteriously removed. That led to speculation that Epps might have been a government agent. Dozens of videos surfaced over the past three years showing Epps involved in behavior that, under the January 6 rules, should have resulted in an armed pre-dawn raid, pretrial detention, multiple felony charges, and ultimately, years in federal prison.
I aint heard of him.