SecondStreet.org launched a new documentary: Health Reform Now. It gives a voice to Canadians who have been let down by the health-care system and it speaks to experts and health-care providers to point to meaningful reforms — ones that are widely used in Europe to provide better care to patients.
One such reform would be implementing activity-based funding, a policy the Montreal Economic Institute and Fraser Institute have recommended for years.
Right now, hospitals in Canada are funded in large block grants, with one large lump sum providing the entire year's operating budget. What that means, in practice, is that every patient a hospital treats is a drain on that budget. So the incentive is entirely backwards in terms of getting more people through the doors and into treatment.
What activity-based funding does is reverse that incentive structure. Instead, funding would follow the patient, meaning if a patient is treated, the health-care facility would be given a set fee to pay for that treatment. In practice, this means the more patients a hospital helps, the more dollars the hospital receives from the government.
This isn't a new concept either. Rather, most countries that operate universal health-care systems follow a similar funding formula, tying tax dollars to treatment and results. Canada is a holdout here and there don't seem to be any coherent arguments as to why.
We have seen the difference a simple reform like this can make in delivering health care to folks who need it. For instance, the Quebec government has used this funding policy to increase MRI scans by 22% while the cost per procedure decreased by 4%. This is the type of meaningful but simple reform that could be introduced across Canada to reduce wait times and encourage hospitals to be more efficient and patient-centred.
Governments owe it to patients to pursue them and provide Canadians with the best health-care system in the world, not one where people get sicker or even die while they are stuck on a waiting list.
It's time for health reform – now.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-looking-at-global-options-to-improve-canadian-health-care
Politicians right across Canada seem unable or unwilling to confront the challenges Canadian public health faces with any meaningful reforms.
So will the Canadian civil war break out before the American one?
Quote from: Prof Emeritus at Fawk U on August 18, 2024, 06:57:10 PMSo will the Canadian civil war break out before the American one?
I don't live in Canada right now, but from what I have been reading Canadians have had enough. The restrictions on what Canadians can read and say online have pushed them too far. Not to mention the all out assault the Trudeau government has been waging on free market prosperity.
Quote from: Thiel on August 18, 2024, 07:21:31 PMI don't live in Canada right now, but from what I have been reading Canadians have had enough. The restrictions on what Canadians can read and say online have pushed them too far. Not to mention the all out assault the Trudeau government has been waging on free market prosperity.
So in 10-15 years it happens?
Quote from: Prof Emeritus at Fawk U on August 18, 2024, 06:57:10 PMSo will the Canadian civil war break out before the American one?
Canadians are largely unarmed and too pussified to mount an armed insurrection.
Like Australia, like New Zealand...
Quote from: Frood on August 19, 2024, 01:35:39 PMCanadians are largely unarmed and too pussified to mount an armed insurrection.
Like Australia, like New Zealand...
For an ass like you with nothing to lose why not
[/quo
Canada should ration the healthcare system for those that abuse or overuse it.
Homeless people, drunks, drug addicts should be all be thrown into overnight trailers -aka drunk tanks - rather than being allowed into hospitals to use our ER rooms as a free place to stay the night. Let them sober up in some dirty trailer instead.
People who overuse the system should pay for it. Remind them that a stay at at the hospital is not a night at the Hilton.
Even in the US, Medicaid there places a limit on how many visits its recipients get & how examinations they can take. The number of freebies Americans get who receive Medicaid is way less than what the Canadian Medicare system gives to its patients.
Eliminating system abuse would save our healthcare system millions or possibly billions in Canada.
Also a lot of health problems originate from people who don't take care of themselves. Ie smoking, vaping, drinking, obesity, doing drugs like marijuana. So of course they have health issues later in life
While there certainly are people who are predisposed to health problems, If there was a greater emphasis on preventing self abuse that might also save the health system millions as well.
Good thread until Joe posted in it.
Quote from: Sea on August 19, 2024, 01:56:42 PMQuote from: Frood on August 19, 2024, 01:35:39 PMCanadians are largely unarmed and too pussified to mount an armed insurrection.
Like Australia, like New Zealand...
For an ass like you with nothing to lose why not
[/quo
Fucking A :crampe:
Quote from: JOE on August 19, 2024, 02:02:19 PMCanada should ration the healthcare system for those that abuse or overuse it.
Homeless people, drunks, drug addicts should be all be thrown into overnight trailers -aka drunk tanks - rather than being allowed into hospitals to use our ER rooms as a free place to stay the night. Let them sober up in some dirty trailer instead.
People who overuse the system should pay for it. Remind them that a stay at at the hospital is not a night at the Hilton.
Even in the US, Medicaid there places a limit on how many visits its recipients get & how examinations they can take. The number of freebies Americans get who receive Medicaid is way less than what the Canadian Medicare system gives to its patients.
Eliminating system abuse would save our healthcare system millions or possibly billions in Canada.
I have a much simpler and more cost effective fix Sugarplum. Change the Canada Health Act to allow a private competing system thereby taking financial pressure off the collapsing public system.
Quote from: JOE on August 19, 2024, 02:11:04 PMAlso a lot of health problems originate from people who don't take care of themselves. Ie smoking, vaping, drinking, obesity, doing drugs like marijuana. So of course they have health issues later in life
While there certainly are people who are predisposed to health problems, If there was a greater emphasis on preventing self abuse that might also save the health system millions as well.
That is how a private health care system would work Sweetie. So why not just make the legal changes to allow a better performing and more efficient private system.
Quote from: DKG on August 18, 2024, 02:06:15 PMSecondStreet.org launched a new documentary: Health Reform Now. It gives a voice to Canadians who have been let down by the health-care system and it speaks to experts and health-care providers to point to meaningful reforms — ones that are widely used in Europe to provide better care to patients.
One such reform would be implementing activity-based funding, a policy the Montreal Economic Institute and Fraser Institute have recommended for years.
Right now, hospitals in Canada are funded in large block grants, with one large lump sum providing the entire year's operating budget. What that means, in practice, is that every patient a hospital treats is a drain on that budget. So the incentive is entirely backwards in terms of getting more people through the doors and into treatment.
What activity-based funding does is reverse that incentive structure. Instead, funding would follow the patient, meaning if a patient is treated, the health-care facility would be given a set fee to pay for that treatment. In practice, this means the more patients a hospital helps, the more dollars the hospital receives from the government.
This isn't a new concept either. Rather, most countries that operate universal health-care systems follow a similar funding formula, tying tax dollars to treatment and results. Canada is a holdout here and there don't seem to be any coherent arguments as to why.
We have seen the difference a simple reform like this can make in delivering health care to folks who need it. For instance, the Quebec government has used this funding policy to increase MRI scans by 22% while the cost per procedure decreased by 4%. This is the type of meaningful but simple reform that could be introduced across Canada to reduce wait times and encourage hospitals to be more efficient and patient-centred.
Governments owe it to patients to pursue them and provide Canadians with the best health-care system in the world, not one where people get sicker or even die while they are stuck on a waiting list.
It's time for health reform – now.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-looking-at-global-options-to-improve-canadian-health-care
Politicians right across Canada seem unable or unwilling to confront the challenges Canadian public health faces with any meaningful reforms.
I did not know about block grants. What I do know is that we spend a fortune on piss poor health care.
Quote from: Herman on August 19, 2024, 07:37:45 PMI did not know about block grants. What I do know is that we spend a fortune on piss poor health care.
Really ashamed Herman, especially when you need it most. I pay $60. Per month, for pretty good coverage. It's the fucking insurance companies that make it expensive
I'm sooooooo glad I don't have to deal with failing Canadian health care anymore.
Here in SG, I can see a doctor within a day. If I need testing, same day. If I needed a procedure done, within a week.
And we provide much better care cheaper than Canada.
QuoteAccording to global consulting firm Towers Watson, Singapore has "one of the most successful healthcare systems in the world, in terms of both efficiency in financing and the results achieved in community health outcomes" For the most part, the government does not directly regulate the costs of private medical care. These costs are largely subject to market forces, and vary enormously within the private sector, depending on the medical specialty and service provided.
Quote from: Sea on August 19, 2024, 08:04:56 PMReally ashamed Herman, especially when you need it most. I pay $60. Per month, for pretty good coverage. It's the fucking insurance companies that make it expensive
Seamoron picks up where he left off. Not comprehending posts and threads.
Quote from: Shen Li on August 19, 2024, 09:48:18 PMI'm sooooooo glad I don't have to deal with failing Canadian health care anymore.
Here in SG, I can see a doctor within a day. If I need testing, same day. If I needed a procedure done, within a week.
And we provide much better care cheaper than Canada.
I will admit to being astonished by the waiting periods in Canada. But I suppose I ought not have been too surprised. If you want something mismanaged and to cost an arm and a leg into the bargain, getting the government to take care of it is your best option to achieving both.
Socialized healthcare sucks donkeycock. I'd just as soon have all those clowns in the public service stripped of their paycheques and encouraged to produce something other than red tape. Taxes could then be lowered and I could better manage with what I produce, squirreling away a sizeable hedge against any future potential costs I might incur and reasonably certain I wouldn't be contributing to some socialist shitweasel to bludge off my dime while blowing all his ill gotten welfare monies on gold coins and other stupid trinkets.
Quote from: horse sense on August 21, 2024, 03:33:03 AMI will admit to being astonished by the waiting periods in Canada. But I suppose I ought not have been too surprised. If you want something mismanaged and to cost an arm and a leg into the bargain, getting the government to take care of it is your best option to achieving both.
Socialized healthcare sucks donkeycock. I'd just as soon have all those clowns in the public service stripped of their paycheques and encouraged to produce something other than red tape. Taxes could then be lowered and I could better manage with what I produce, squirreling away a sizeable hedge against any future potential costs I might incur and reasonably certain I wouldn't be contributing to some socialist shitweasel to bludge off my dime while blowing all his ill gotten welfare monies on gold coins and other stupid trinkets.
No other country delivers health care the way we do. No other country should model health care delivery on the Canadian model.
It is no sustainable either.
Quote from: DKG on August 21, 2024, 07:03:57 AMNo other country delivers health care the way we do. No other country should model health care delivery on the Canadian model.
It is no sustainable either.
Take a look at England's NHS sometime. Or Australia's Medicare for that matter.
Government mismanagement of socialized medicine is not a problem unique to Canada.
Quote from: hard R on August 21, 2024, 06:58:01 PMTake a look at England's NHS sometime. Or Australia's Medicare for that matter.
Government mismanagement of socialized medicine is not a problem unique to Canada.
They both allow more private options than Canaduh.
Quote from: Herman on August 21, 2024, 07:36:05 PMThey both allow more private options than Canaduh.
That they do. They also require the private options to contribute to the government subsidized system under threat of practitioners losing their license to work, effectively rendering the private sector a thinly veneered public system, given that its workforce and its clients are subsidizing the openly public model.
And that's before we consider how many non-taxpaying illegal migrants get bumped to the head of the queue while the locals get to wait their turn.
Privatize all of it. The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient. Competition between providers will also do the same.
Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.
Quote from: Oerdin on August 22, 2024, 04:34:53 AMPrivatize all of it. The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient. Competition between providers will also do the same.
Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.
Guarding against collusion between those organisations and the public service might also be something to keep an eye on too. We'd want to avoid the kinds of relationships that media outlets and various Silicon Valley companies have been known to enjoy with the government at the common man's expense. The revolving door that operates between pharma companies and regulatory bodies like the FDA and CDC does not serve us even remotely adequately.
On a different note, I'm glad you popped in here actually. I've been pawing through the Open Ink (https://open.ink/collections) link you posted earlier in the shoutbox; a tidy collection of well researched and unbiased presentations highlighting the events of 2020's election I think and I imagine there's a few in my circle that could benefit from watching them. Thankyou for sharing them.
Quote from: Oerdin on August 22, 2024, 04:34:53 AMPrivatize all of it. The government can run a basic insurance program but all actual healthcare providers should be privately run to make them more efficient. Competition between providers will also do the same.
Holland or Japan are good examples of this approach.
I don't mind the government running a basic health delivery program, but mostn health care delivery should be in private hands to keepn costs lower and service better.
Quote from: hard R on August 22, 2024, 01:39:09 AMThey also require the private options to contribute to the government subsidized system under threat of practitioners losing their license to work,
How do they do that?
Probably they tax the fuck out of them.
Quote from: DKG on August 22, 2024, 07:06:44 AMI don't mind the government running a basic health delivery program, but mostn health care delivery should be in private hands to keepn costs lower and service better.
Thats what caused the problem ITFP. Give government power and they ALWAYS expand and try to take over. Its the nature of government. Thats why our founders created the best form of government ever known to mankind when they broke the government into 3 or arguable 5 opposed branches. We fucked up when we allowed the government to better "do the will of the people". Fixing government so that it works leads to slavery.
Even by single payer systems, Canada's health care system is the shits.
Quote from: Lokmar on August 22, 2024, 10:41:34 AMThats what caused the problem ITFP. Give government power and they ALWAYS expand and try to take over. Its the nature of government. Thats why our founders created the best form of government ever known to mankind when they broke the government into 3 or arguable 5 opposed branches. We fucked up when we allowed the government to better "do the will of the people". Fixing government so that it works leads to slavery.
Ours is just not efficient. You saw the post about the block grants. That is wasteful.
Quote from: DKG on August 22, 2024, 07:08:23 AMHow do they do that?
Exactly as I said. The government enforces the rule that private practicioners contribute a portion of their working hours to the public healthcare sector by revoking their license to practice at all if they do not. Effectively it's a tax without the money component; those hours that the private carers are forced to invest in the publick healthcare model are hours they might otherwise be devoting to the private.
And if they don't comply, they don't get to practice at all. Period.
As for the clients, they get to pay into the public service slush fund via taxes they cannot avoid paying without having the taxman breathing down their necks. They could have full comprehensive private coverage, they still must pay the levy for the public medicare.
Oh, and the slush fund regularly gets dipped into to fund other, non-medical related things. I believe I mentioned this previously.
So, yes I can agree with you that the Canadian model truly sucks, based exclusively on the inordinately long waiting queues that one is faced with to access services. But you cannot tell me that places like England or Australia are better simply because there are "private options", not when those models are overseen by the same type of corrupt fuckwads that mishandle the service on Canadian shores.
Believe me, I wish it were otherwise. It might give us an example to rub people's noses in and show them how it
should be done.
Addendum: I should ask if you have considered just letting the Canadian system crumble. Not bothering to save it. Because it's clearly not working as it should, not that this should come to the surprise of anyone familiar with the inefficiencies inherent in government run infrastructure.
And if you need to see a doctor, do it on the sly and remunerate him directly. Preferably in a form that doesn't result in money changing hands (so, bartering) and cut the government bullshittery out of the equation entirely.
Quote from: DKG on August 23, 2024, 06:47:02 AMOurs is just not efficient. You saw the post about the block grants. That is wasteful.
Government never excels in efficiency. They excel in spending money and fucking things up.
Quote from: hard R on August 23, 2024, 03:14:57 PMAddendum: I should ask if you have considered just letting the Canadian system crumble. Not bothering to save it. Because it's clearly not working as it should, not that this should come to the surprise of anyone familiar with the inefficiencies inherent in government run infrastructure.
And if you need to see a doctor, do it on the sly and remunerate him directly. Preferably in a form that doesn't result in money changing hands (so, bartering) and cut the government bullshittery out of the equation entirely.
Letting it crumble?? It's well on it's way there now.
Some provinces are spending nearly half of their budgets on crappy health care. It's not sustainable and it will come crashing to the ground within 20 years unless the Canada Health Act is reformed.
Quote from: Lokmar on August 23, 2024, 08:08:45 PMGovernment never excels in efficiency. They excel in spending money and fucking things up.
It is even worse in Canada. Canadian provinces have health boards, that are made up of appointed leftist political hacks. They decide how the block grants are spent. And it is always what the union bosses want, not what the public needs.