Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 12:30:18 AMIs it though Lokmar? The US hasn't had anything approaching a "free and fair election" as enumerated on the international level in a long time, and the current administration (along with a good slice of the hopefuls of all stripes) seem hell bent on breaking every criteria that they haven't already broken.


Feel free to peruse those standards here


Not saying your cause isn't just mind you; I've already seen Trump in action - we all have. And it's my honest opinion that for all the shitty press he's had and the decisions he's made that I personally disagreed with, there's a whole whack of stuff that bears his signature that I do champion.

One look at the criminals and scumbags he is up against, and I must question if he can pull it off a second time and deliver four more years of sane policy that regular people can work and prosper under. His opponents appear willing to stop at nothing to thwart it.

Major problem is there's no national stardard for conducting Federal elections in the United States. So in effect you're conducting 50 separate presidential elections. Of course it's gonna be a mess. Every other democracy in the world has just one standard, one ballot of their elections. UK. France, Canada, Germany, Japan, etc etc. so you can jump in the voting booth and it will be the same anywhere in those places.

You can't have 50 different standards and expect to have a fair outcome.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 12:30:18 AMThe US hasn't had anything approaching a "free and fair election" as enumerated on the international level in a long time, and the current administration (along with a good slice of the hopefuls of all stripes) seem hell bent on breaking every criteria that they haven't already broken.


Feel free to peruse those standards here

Quote from: Herman on November 04, 2023, 02:33:51 AMThe democRATS and establishment GOP aint in politics for working folks. That is whay Trump ran for president in the first place.

Quote from: JOE on November 04, 2023, 03:26:21 PMMajor problem is there's no national stardard for conducting Federal elections in the United States. So in effect you're conducting 50 separate presidential elections. Of course it's gonna be a mess. Every other democracy in the world has just one standard, one ballot of their elections. UK. France, Canada, Germany, Japan, etc etc. so you can jump in the voting booth and it will be the same anywhere in those places.

You can't have 50 different standards and expect to have a fair outcome.

That's all well and good, but you're both missing the point here. Namely the corrupt election system that America and a good many of her allies are operating under.

We know that it is corrupt because we can refer to the international standards as linked above and enumerate plenty of breaches that have occurred in recent times; breaches that upon sober reflection would condemn the present system as being as bad as any third world dictatorship masquerading as a democracy.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 08:53:44 PMThat's all well and good, but you're both missing the point here. Namely the corrupt election system that America and a good many of her allies are operating under.

We know that it is corrupt because we can refer to the international standards as linked above and enumerate plenty of breaches that have occurred in recent times; breaches that upon sober reflection would condemn the present system as being as bad as any third world dictatorship masquerading as a democracy.

Given the electoral mess in the US, if you really want a fair and corrupt-free election there, Americans would have to give up many of their civil liberties. ie - there'd have to be national registry with digital ID's voter cards and voter lists. Unfortunately under such a system, your vote would no longer remain anonymous. They would have to eliminate individual state systems which would be abolished. Then a national system would have to be implemented which would be the equivalent of a digital fingerprint so there would be no cheating and every vote could be traced. However, these votes would have to be recorded for all to see in a national registry. So you would no longer have the privacy and your neighbors and friends would know who you voted for - including your photograph, where you lived, etc. etc. Plus when you cast your vote, you'd be videotaped on camera.

That is the only way I could see resolving the election problem in the USA, Ollie. It would have to become completely open and transparent. But in the process you'd lose your privacy as an American voter.

In Canada we have one type of ballot of set of procedures for all the provinces and territories in a national election. All the rules are the same in every city, town and province. Plus when the voter goes to the booth, they have to show photo ID, a voter card that was sent to them in the mail, sign 2 or 3 separate times before they are given a ballot to cast. And when the voting is finished, the voter has to relinquish the receipt with a serial number on it back to the elections official. And there's usually 3 people watching the voter who has to go through all of them.

It's actually rather strict in Canada. But we're a much smaller nation in the USA, so if a national system were implemented in the US it would be a much larger undertaking with even greater scrutiny than we have here.

So be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Quote from: JOE on November 04, 2023, 09:04:53 PMGiven the electoral mess in the US, if you really want a fair and corrupt-free election there, Americans would have to give up many of their civil liberties. ie - there'd have to be national registry with digital ID's voter cards and voter lists. Unfortunately under such a system, your vote would no longer remain anonymous.

It's not anonymous now, unless you're championing the practice of showing up at a polling booth and claiming to be whoever you like for the purposes of counting a vote (or indeed multiple votes). People register their support for political parties, any interested person can establish who has voted for whom just as easily as they can approve or deny a vote based on whatever ephemeral criteria they choose... and create lists for the purpose of sending the goon squads over after the fact.

I call your civil liberties excuse for the bullshit it is. Sit down.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 09:16:36 PMIt's not anonymous now, unless you're championing the practice of showing up at a polling booth and claiming to be whoever you like for the purposes of counting a vote (or indeed multiple votes). People register their support for political parties, any interested person can establish who has voted for whom just as easily as they can approve or deny a vote based on whatever ephemeral criteria they choose... and create lists for the purpose of sending the goon squads over after the fact.

I call your civil liberties excuse for the bullshit it is. Sit down.

Well...you want transparency and honest open elections where all cheating would be prosecuted and that's whatcha ya'd git.

since both sides had their share of cheaters last time who got caught then an additional safeguard would have to be implemented where anyone could look you up using your voter ID#. Then they could see how you voted, where you live, etc. And those who wouldn't comply couldn't vote. Kinda hearkens back to 'mark of the beast' but if ya want 'fair and honest' ya'd really have to give up a lot to get it since nobody trusts anyone in the States anymore.

Quote from: JOE on November 04, 2023, 09:27:16 PMWell...you want transparency and honest open elections where all cheating would be prosecuted and that's whatcha ya'd git.

since both sides had their share of cheaters last time who got caught then an additional safeguard would have to be implemented where anyone could look you up using your voter ID#.

No it wouldn't, you simply ensure chain of custody breaches are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and the willingness to recognise any of a number of official government photo IDs before being allowed to cast a vote. Any absentee ballots (ie: military personnel stationed overseas) to be subject to the same requirements.

You might also argue that this be applied to the primaries, PTA boards, local sherriffs et al. And in the event that a recount is required, those doing the recounts ought be subject to the same stringent scrutiny as those involved in the original count.

All of this is possible without the need for a voter ID number system which wouldn't make a lick of difference anyway under the corrupt system as it currently exists. CHecks and balances are being blatantly violated and you are a fool for suggesting a further check in the form of a voter ID number would solve anything. Sit DOWN, fuckhead.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 09:51:54 PMNo it wouldn't, you simply ensure chain of custody breaches are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and the willingness to recognise any of a number of official government photo IDs before being allowed to cast a vote. Any absentee ballots (ie: military personnel stationed overseas) to be subject to the same requirements.

You might also argue that this be applied to the primaries, PTA boards, local sherriffs et al. And in the event that a recount is required, those doing the recounts ought be subject to the same stringent scrutiny as those involved in the original count.

All of this is possible without the need for a voter ID number system which wouldn't make a lick of difference anyway under the corrupt system as it currently exists. CHecks and balances are being blatantly violated and you are a fool for suggesting a further check in the form of a voter ID number would solve anything. Sit DOWN, fuckhead.

Well if you don't want any voter or electoral system reform, then you'll be stuck with the same corrupt system forever. And people in the USA will complain endlessly that the elections were stolen and weren't fair.

I remember in 2000 when the Democrats lost how they were whining that the election was stolen. And I also remember commentators warning that the Republicans might be in the same boat one day too. Well lo and behold. in 2020, 20 years later it was the Republicans whining that the election was stolen.

You guys had 20 full years to reform your election system and nothing was done about it. Even the Republican pro business publication the Wall Street Journal wrote articles and warned about the coming crisis in 2000.

I think posted links to those articles at Biggies old forum stomping groundz

Quote from: JOE on November 04, 2023, 10:00:06 PMWell if you don't want any voter or electoral system reform, then you'll be stuck with the same corrupt system forever.

Again, you are full of shit. No-one lives forever.

Now sit down... on a cock if you want, it might fuck some sense into you.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 04, 2023, 10:09:31 PMAgain, you are full of shit. No-one lives forever.

Now sit down... on a cock if you want, it might fuck some sense into you.

well...then what do you suggest to stamp out corruption and catch the cheaters?

In such as toxic political atmosphere like the US, nobody trusts each other. So everybody has to be watched, even the ones policing the system so they don't cheat.

I agree with Republicans somewhat that there were a lot of horrible inconsistencies in the way the votes were counted.

ie - ballots shouldn't even be handled by people but run through machines so no human can touch them. and it would be digitally recorded and televised.

Noticeably some states allowed voting after 8 pm even tho that's the closing time at the polls.

Quote from: JOE on November 04, 2023, 10:26:09 PMwell...then what do you suggest to stamp out corruption and catch the cheaters?

Already answered this. Go choke on a BBC you broken record. There is already plenty of legislation which, if observed to the letter, would ensure proper application of the democratic overlay of the constitutional republic that is the USA.

You appear incapable of internalizing this basic premise and I see no reason to speak further with you on this topic.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 05, 2023, 07:21:26 PMAlready answered this. Go choke on a BBC you broken record. There is already plenty of legislation which, if observed to the letter, would ensure proper application of the democratic overlay of the constitutional republic that is the USA.

You appear incapable of internalizing this basic premise and I see no reason to speak further with you on this topic.

But you should then acknowledge that there were a lot of cheaters who got caught on the Trump side. A number of them were caught voting twice. And it was a huge embrrassement to the Texas AG who offered to pay a reward for all cheaters.

I seem to remember there was some woman of Mexican citizenry who fraudulently voted for the Democrats, got caught and sent to prison in Texas.

so, there was cheating on both sides.

You should at least admit your side is not entirely innocent if there other is too

Like I said, "You appear incapable of internalizing this basic premise and I see no reason to speak further with you on this topic." I'm not interested in differential enforcement of the rules, never suggested I was. In fact quite the contrary.

You just don't seem to get it. Likely you never will. Because you are mean spirited, selfish assholes that demand the charity of self abasement of everyone and everything for your own ends. "There is already plenty of legislation which, if observed to the letter, would ensure proper application of the democratic overlay of the constitutional republic that is the USA is holistic and makes no distinction between party lines. All to be held to the same standard, which is a point you seem utterly incapable of grasping.

That is positively the last thing I am saying to your vacuum-packed intellect on the subject in this thread. I tire of repeating myself to single digit IQ soyents and you are welcome to go fuck yourself if you think I am entertaining your faux pious yammering further.

Grow a fucking brain and learn to use it responsibly.

Quote from: Adolf Oliver Bush on November 07, 2023, 08:56:44 AMLike I said, "You appear incapable of internalizing this basic premise and I see no reason to speak further with you on this topic." I'm not interested in differential enforcement of the rules, never suggested I was. In fact quite the contrary.

You just don't seem to get it. Likely you never will. Because you are mean spirited, selfish assholes that demand the charity of self abasement of everyone and everything for your own ends. "There is already plenty of legislation which, if observed to the letter, would ensure proper application of the democratic overlay of the constitutional republic that is the USA is holistic and makes no distinction between party lines. All to be held to the same standard, which is a point you seem utterly incapable of grasping.

That is positively the last thing I am saying to your vacuum-packed intellect on the subject in this thread. I tire of repeating myself to single digit IQ soyents and you are welcome to go fuck yourself if you think I am entertaining your faux pious yammering further.

Grow a fucking brain and learn to use it responsibly.

He'll be better after Thiel gives him a good ass pounding. 

Quote from: Reggie Essent on November 07, 2023, 01:36:03 PMHe'll be better after Thiel gives him a good ass pounding. 

Old Joe will like that.

Quote from: Herman on November 07, 2023, 01:56:08 PMOld Joe will like that.

I think old Joe needs that.