I think the government is trying to kill OH

[Shen Li]

It's easy to sabotage shit when you can blame it on a few blue collar workers.



I'd like to see what they have to say about this shit on record.



Unless they've died suddenly.

It seems like the employees did it to themselves. They ignored a safety alert.

They ignored 2 safety warnings. Fire their irresponsible asses.

[Shen Li]

I don't think you get it. If you did, you'd know the conductor and the hoghead ignored 2 hot box detector warnings. That is cardinal rule violation under CROR rules and I'm sure the US too. They were supposed to bring the train to a controlled stop, but they didn't.



Like almost all derailments this occurred because rail employees didn't follow rules. Not a lack of expensive train brakes and not because Blackrock is buying everything in sight.

Is that what they are saying now? That they purposely ignored warnings?

Obviously you don't know what a hot box detector is and what they are used for. If the hot box detector was functional they would have had 2 previous warning that the train had a hot wheel bearing. It comes across the rail train channel and is heard by the RTC as well.



If the hot box detector didn't send warnings across the rail train channel, it was not being maintained by the signals maintainers. This is unlikely as they have regular scheduled maintenance checks plus the RTC would have caught it when the last trains went over it. Yes, they do broadcast when no overheating problems are caught.

[Frood]

It seems like the employees did it to themselves. They ignored a safety alert.

They ignored 2 safety warnings. Fire their irresponsible asses.

We haven't heard them counter the claims.



They could be guilty or they could be framed.

[Herman]

They ignored 2 safety warnings. Fire their irresponsible asses.

We haven't heard them counter the claims.



They could be guilty or they could be framed.

All railroads are unionized, so they will get their day in court just like the fella that didn't apply enough handbrakes that caused the deaths of forty seven people at Lac Megantic, Quebec. The final ruling on responsibility could take months.



In my old industry, we were not unionized. We got to the bottom of serious incidents quickly and canned the driller and possibly the toolpush for not following well control emergency procedures.



Just like old Blurt or Blazor, folks who don't understand the industry fail-safe measures would blame oil companies or drilling contractors for a blowout because of something that was unrelated to well shut in procedures not being followed. The blame is always the driller, then the push and possibly the consultant. Safety sensitive industries like oil and gas drilling or transporting dangerous goods on rails pay very well. But, they will not keep around guys who don't follow the most serious safety rules. Even with a union, that conductor and locomotive engineer will get some serious discipline.

[Frood]

We haven't heard them counter the claims.



They could be guilty or they could be framed.

All railroads are unionized, so they will get their day in court just like the fella that didn't apply enough handbrakes that caused the deaths of forty seven people at Lac Megantic, Quebec. The final ruling on responsibility could take months.



In my old industry, we were not unionized. We got to the bottom of serious incidents quickly and canned the driller and possibly the toolpush for not following well control emergency procedures.



Just like old Blurt or Blazor, folks who don't understand the industry fail-safe measures would blame oil companies or drilling contractors for a blowout because of something that was unrelated to well shut in procedures not being followed. The blame is always the driller, then the push and possibly the consultant. Safety sensitive industries like oil and gas drilling or transporting dangerous goods on rails pay very well. But, they will not keep around guys who don't follow the most serious safety rules. Even with a union, that conductor and locomotive engineer will get some serious discipline.

But if an accident wasn't unintentional?



If organisations or government organisations are intentionally lighting shit on fire and derailing trains, wouldn't you want to hear every side before passing judgement?



Look... I can accept that numerous operators might not have followed protocols... but I can also accept that these people, even if they exist, are suspect one way or another, just as the official government statements.

[Herman]

All railroads are unionized, so they will get their day in court just like the fella that didn't apply enough handbrakes that caused the deaths of forty seven people at Lac Megantic, Quebec. The final ruling on responsibility could take months.



In my old industry, we were not unionized. We got to the bottom of serious incidents quickly and canned the driller and possibly the toolpush for not following well control emergency procedures.



Just like old Blurt or Blazor, folks who don't understand the industry fail-safe measures would blame oil companies or drilling contractors for a blowout because of something that was unrelated to well shut in procedures not being followed. The blame is always the driller, then the push and possibly the consultant. Safety sensitive industries like oil and gas drilling or transporting dangerous goods on rails pay very well. But, they will not keep around guys who don't follow the most serious safety rules. Even with a union, that conductor and locomotive engineer will get some serious discipline.

But if an accident wasn't unintentional?



If organisations or government organisations are intentionally lighting shit on fire and derailing trains, wouldn't you want to hear every side before passing judgement?



Look... I can accept that numerous operators might not have followed protocols... but I can also accept that these people, even if they exist, are suspect one way or another, just as the official government statements.

What has this got to do with the train crew that disobeyed safety rules. If the train crew had followed the rules, it would have been a case of Norfolk Southern losing some money because a train came to a stop and delayed other trains. Those two guys had their minds on something else, and I am guessing the company's investigation with their union will get to the bottom of why they ignored safety warnings.

[Frood]

You've bought into a State sponsored media narrative.

[DKG]

You've bought into a State sponsored media narrative.

 :MG_216:

[DKG]

But if an accident wasn't unintentional?



If organisations or government organisations are intentionally lighting shit on fire and derailing trains, wouldn't you want to hear every side before passing judgement?



Look... I can accept that numerous operators might not have followed protocols... but I can also accept that these people, even if they exist, are suspect one way or another, just as the official government statements.

What has this got to do with the train crew that disobeyed safety rules. If the train crew had followed the rules, it would have been a case of Norfolk Southern losing some money because a train came to a stop and delayed other trains. Those two guys had their minds on something else, and I am guessing the company's investigation with their union will get to the bottom of why they ignored safety warnings.

I have some clients that I have had for years that are unionized heavy industry tradespeople. When an industrial accident happens it's because safety was deliberately not observed or complacency. Usually the latter. We got a conspiracy theorist in this thread who knows nothing about the rail industry babbling Blackrock and Vanguard. Like they ignored two safety warnings and caused a derailment.  

[Blazor]

Oh so now its name calling time, and saying folks dont understand shit. Reminds me of Covid, and we all remember how that worked out lolol.



I do understand. Do I look like motherfuckin' Joe Biden? Lord I hope not!



My old job involved trains and train parts. So Im not clueless.



The point that Frood and I are trying to make, is keep an open mind, take all the facts in of things that have been happening lately, and think on it, cause all of our very lives are involved in all this bullshit and we DAMN sure cant depend on MSM and the likes telling the truth on jack shit.

[Frood]

You've bought into a State sponsored media narrative.

 :MG_216:

Laugh it up, furball.

[Shen Li]

@Blazor



Involved with trains unless you are on track in CTC, OCS or yard tracks means nothing. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Anybody working on track is governed by CROR or it's American equivalent. You were not.



The point is that hot box detectors are there for a reason. It is fail safe technology. Either it failed to issue a warning or much more likely the running trades ignored 2 safety. Bill Gates is an asshole, but he didn't ignore 2 warnings to stop. The conductor and the hoghead did.



What you and Freud are talking about are irrelevant to a cardinal rule violation that lead to a major derailment. We all hate the same people,  but again they are not responsible for the train crew's inaction. MSM is ignorant of railway operating rules as you are.

[Frood]

@Blazor



Involved with trains unless you are on track in CTC, OCS or yard tracks means nothing. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Anybody working on track is governed by CROR or it's American equivalent. You were not.



The point is that hot box detectors are there for a reason. It is fail safe technology. Either it failed to issue a warning or much more likely the running trades ignored 2 safety. Bill Gates is an asshole, but he didn't ignore 2 warnings to stop. The conductor and the hoghead did.



What you and Freud are talking about are irrelevant to a cardinal rule violation that lead to a major derailment. We all hate the same people,  but again they are not responsible for the train crew's inaction. MSM is ignorant of railway operating rules as you are.

Shush, pancake butt.



Don't misrepresent the point I was making.

[Anonymous]

Sum Cunt, you are talking to a fella that has ran freight trains for over thirty years. Non railroaders do not stand much of a chance debating rail safety with old Jock.

I doubt his voluminous experience with the operation of rolling stock forbids him from recognizing a problem when it arises. This problem I have articulated, along with agreeing with a number of the points he raises before he bothered to weigh in on them.



It is not his experience in the field that forbids consensus. I am no stranger to logistics myself, just because my field ran on bitumen rather than steel does not negate the salient points; namely the utter failure of a system to provide a service with little to no damage to the communities it operated in and around, along with the invitation of more of same if people continue to seek to scapegoat those at the coalface while those who put them there and demanded results without provisioning adequate training, tools and reasonable expectations of said results get off scot free.



This is a common enough problem in many fields, not simply rail transportation of dangerous chemicals. If IHJ or yourself are unwilling or flat out unable to recognize the merit of the application of transferred skills and knowledge applied from an empirical standpoint and would rather defer to cherrypicking your experts, that's no skin off my dick. It wouldn't be the first time my word has been discounted to the cost of those discounting it; there was a culture here for instance that remained in staunch  support of a certain experimental treatment I and others decried when it was administered and the advice and arguments dismissed as "conspiracy theory" are slowly revealing themselves as very real conspiracy fact. Some of us get to live with the consequences of our actions, I argue it should be all of us.

This Ohio accident reminds me of Deepwater Horizon. There was all kinds of shit excuses about profits over safery, and more regulations would have prevented it. But, if BOP shut in procedures were followed it would not have happened. We can point fingers all we want, but sometimes workers do not follow rules one hundred percent of the time. What prog politicians think new rules four, five, and six will be followed when rules one, two, and three are ignored.

I did say to not rely on the government to handle it. There is already enough legislation, applying more is simple Band-Aiding and boilerplating, it does not fix the issue of shitty workers working shitty equipment, nor the shitty overseers that put that house of Lego together. Above all it does not fix the shitty overseers who are not providing the requisite oversight. As it was with BOP, so it is with the current shitfest; namely, if procedures were followed, it would not have happened.



It did happen. Things like it happened before, more things like it will happen in future. This is a problem the entire company needs to address, simply pointing fingers at a couple of cowboys and screaming "its all their fault, they didn't follow da rooolz" doesn't cut it if all you're going to do is afford your improper vetting procedures to install fresh cowboys who will do the job in the same up-to-shit manner.



Fix it. If it eats into the profit margin to follow procedure, then too fucking bad. You do not enjoy the right to run an operation at any level that periodically taxes the health and safety of people that are not your employees.

[Anonymous]

We have 2 desalination plants.... one 10 minutes south of me... they are building a third one north of the river... sum cunt is not up to date about Perth Water... he is like decades behind.... lol

I am well aware of your state's mad rush to seek new sources of fresh water to replace those it has already poisoned through years of mismanagement and abuse. Tell me, were you aware that by exchanging your ground water reserves for a system operated at the behest of your government, you have effectively set the scene to make yourself their slave? Everyone needs water... what happens when they turn yours off?



Ahhh, let me guess - you hadn't thought that far ahead. No biggie.



Caskur my dear, if you might put your pissing contest aside for five minutes, consider; you are at the mercy of whoever decides whatever comes out of your tap. Anything can be piped down it and you wouldn't know, not even should you start growing horns and other appendages while your organs turned to liquefied shit. Times past you might have sunk a bore hole, but most of that water is poison now, and it shouldn't surprise you in the slightest that you might run into a bunch of bureaucratic red tape and fees if you wished to set up a rainwater tank.



Clean water. Next to fresh air, it is THE most essential ingredient to your life. And you are entrusting that resource to someone you've never met and have no idea of their intentions.



Speaking of fresh air, want to tell me what is powering those de-sal plants? Rainbows and unicorn farts is it? The wet dreams of Greta von Doomsburg perhaps? I'm betting not. I'm willing to wager your "clean water" is being powered by the state electricity grid. So "coal and gas" essentially, since your state has little in the way of vast volumes of water rolling down hillsides that could turn a turbine and the last time I checked the only nuclear plant in Australia was in Lucas Heights.



Coal and gas are cleaner than solar and wind, if we factor in construction and maintanance. But if maintaining the groundwater was considered too costly or simply not relevant, why should you or anyone else consider those responsibly might do any better on the fossil fuel power front?



I'm sure some of our Californian cousins have some tales to tell. Sleep tight.