So DSM, tell me more about this "once saved permanently saved" stuff

[Lokmar]

The world is 20,000 years old?

Fundies can't comprehend big numbers, so that means no one can.  FFS.

This thread started out so good too...

Actually, I'm saying the universe is about 15 billion years old. This in no way conflicts with the Bible.

[Bonesaw]

Actually, I'm saying the universe is about 15 billion years old. This in no way conflicts with the Bible.

Sure it doesn't.  Even if that statement is true, it puts one Christian at odds with another just on the last two pages alone, based on what they do/do not believe is true about God's perception of time and proves my point that you can't seem to come to an agreement on the one very thing that's supposed to keep us from being tormented for eternity.

I'd be sweating bullets if I had to Russian Roulette my way out of certain damnation going off the fractured beliefs of 5 bazillion different sects who say the other guys got it wrong.

This is important stuff!  Tell me the truth.

[Biggie Smiles]

Sure it doesn't.  Even if that statement is true, it puts one Christian at odds with another just on the last two pages alone, based on what they do/do not believe is true about God's perception of time and proves my point that you can't seem to come to an agreement on the one very thing that's supposed to keep us from being tormented for eternity.

I'd be sweating bullets if I had to Russian Roulette my way out of certain damnation going off the fractured beliefs of 5 bazillion different sects who say the other guys got it wrong.

This is important stuff!  Tell me the truth.

That tormented for entirety thing is another fabrication found nowhere in the bible.

Again, how could one reconcile a scripture claiming "God is Love" while maintaining a belief that he is going torment someone for trillions upon trillions of years because of activities they engaged in over a span of 60 maybe 70 years

And that is not the only concept one must ignore to run with the idea of fiery torment for all eternity. One must also explain what is the meaning of a resurrection if you've actually been alive in cognizant the whole time burning your ass off in some fire pit. Resurrecting from what? And to what?

And then there's the matter of who created this gallows to begin with? Every thing else which was brought into existence is mentioned in the bible. Why not this place?

And of course, there's this inconvenient little passage one must contend with. Psm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish."

how does one logically and consistently explain one's thoughts being perished as they are in a state of experiencing unimaginable pain?

now notice how I have not stated any of us/you/them have to believe in any of this? I'm merely pointing out that one book, written by one author has to remain consistent throughout the entirety of the publication otherwise it is complete fabricated bullshit.

And when alleged Christians promote this type of illogical inconsistency with statements such"God works in mysterious ways" or "you just have to believe" when you ask prudent and logical questions they are doing more harm to the system than good. I Completely understand how atheists are born. THey are born out of some of the ridiculous ideas found nowhere in the scripture, which are adopted by many Christian sects and have no basis in fact, truth or basic logic.

[Frood]

Call the waaambulance or simply look at the title and stay away.

Shush, kiddo... don't embarrass yourself even further. 

[deadskinmask]

Jesus Christ, now I know why Biggie likes to pull your pigtails.  None of what you stammered is proof of literally anything.  You believe the earth is flat and that you're perma-saved by one god out of thousands, now somehow ribs regenerating proves Adam and Eve.

Good luck (another concept that only exists in people's heads) to you, Mr. No-Proof.  You need it more than I do.

i'm not sure what you're talking about.... i'm not trying to "prove" anything.... i'm just saying that you should be a little more careful about what you label "nonsense".... God gave us all free will.... what you want to or are willing to believe are part and parcel to that gift.... this is something you need to decide for yourself.... and no matter how outrageous what you choose to believe, i'm certain you can find plenty of "evidence" to support it....

[deadskinmask]

By the way, I imagine most religious types around here have already heard this argument, but isn't it just the tiniest bit peculiar that depending on where you were born, your geographical place in the world heavily influences your beliefs?

We're talking millions of souls per belief system, simply because they were hatched on a different patch of dirt.  And all of them think the religion they grew up with is the true one.

Maybe someone could enlighten me on how that doesn't prove it's all a crock of steaming horse shit.  Hell, some of these third world backwaters never even heard of your magical bedtime story and probably never will.

hmmm.... i wonder what happened a little over 2,000 years ago that was so remarkable that we can universally use it as a marker for a set date to measure time uncontested.... 

[deadskinmask]

Actually, I'm saying the universe is about 15 billion years old. This in no way conflicts with the Bible.

the Bible never actually establishes a timeline.... they only reference generations.... i think the timeline is irrelevant to the overall message.... i have an opinion of a timeline.... but i don't argue with other ppl over a timeline....

[Frood]

So what....?

Yanks still use Imperial measurement though the rest of the world does Metric.

Soon you will too.... because it can't be contested any longer.

[deadskinmask]

times running out.... yall should get your affairs in order.... or don't.... that chip is coming in hot either way....

[Dove]

I used to be a God botherer, as Freud calls them, and one reason I stopped is because I found myself in the position to either lie or make things up on the spot without even the faintest hope of evidence to back it up to defend the indefensible and it got real tiring real fast.  Piles upon piles of excuses like "time is different to God" etc.

Dove You yourself have pre-emptively stated that you believe any alien life we discover is either angels or demons.  There's no logical reason to believe that except via an attempt to make science fit the bible instead of the other way around.

I couldn't bend my brain that way anymore.

 There is more biblical narrative of demons and fallen angels than there is any science of aliens.

 It's more logical to think my way on THIS particular topic.

 Science says....aliens are from other planets. Because....space is big.

 Come on, Bone. Just because I include the Bible in the way I think about the ancient world doesn't automatically mean I'm wrong or illogical. Hell you don't even have to believe the Bible in order to accept it was written in ancient times about the ancient world.

 I don't need science to fit the Bible. Science and the Bible get along well enough and the Bible isn't a science book. And science is always subject to change. There are things in the Bible that we scientifically caught up to. Like springs in the ocean (vents). Dinosaurs. Round earth. Circumcision on the 8th day (because that's when blood clots)...washing hands under running water (microbes).

 It's a fascinating topic but it's difficult to have because people have very strong feelings and biases both ways whenever the topic is God.

[Dove]

hmmm.... i wonder what happened a little over 2,000 years ago that was so remarkable that we can universally use it as a marker for a set date to measure time uncontested.... 

 I was gonna point that out lol. Christainity is global and didn't start in the west. It's older. It was in Africa before America existed.

[Lokmar]

Sure it doesn't.  Even if that statement is true, it puts one Christian at odds with another just on the last two pages alone, based on what they do/do not believe is true about God's perception of time and proves my point that you can't seem to come to an agreement on the one very thing that's supposed to keep us from being tormented for eternity.

I'd be sweating bullets if I had to Russian Roulette my way out of certain damnation going off the fractured beliefs of 5 bazillion different sects who say the other guys got it wrong.

This is important stuff!  Tell me the truth.

You absolutely make a valid point. People get pretty hung up on religion and generally dont question their own beliefs out of fear. "Science" behaves in much the same manner. One only needs to look at covid to confirm it.

The age of the earth and universe has been in constant flux in BOTH scientific and religious sectors.

I realize people's time is important and no one wants smoke blown up their ass, but I encourage you to take 5 minutes and look at the first video I posted. Science and Biblical narratives dont have to conflict. The Big Bang Theory is a prime example. Clearly dinosaurs existed. They werent some absurd prop buried by God or the angels.

[Garraty_47]

times running out.... yall should get your affairs in order.... or don't.... that chip is coming in hot either way....

[Bonesaw]

It's a fascinating topic but it's difficult to have because people have very strong feelings and biases both ways whenever the topic is God.

Still more interesting to me than politics and further reaching (life AND afterlife).  I'm still happy to be able to contribute discourse on at least one major school of thought on this forum, whether or not one thinks I'm full of shit, as some no doubt will. 

I fully accept that I'm biased against religions that claim to know everything, but you can't learn burying your head in the sand either.  I'm fascinated watching atheists and agnostics debate theists on YT.

[Bonesaw]

Christians have been saying the end times were coming since their religion's beginning times were beginning.  No generation has been right so far...