Where is the Colored Guy?

[RW]

The N word has deep social and cultural meaning to black people.  If they were asked, they could cite those reasons without any trouble.



You don't seem to be able to say why the term "Oriental" is offensive to you.  Why is that?

Oriental also has deep social and cultural meaning to East Asian people..



People link the term to old stereotypes of East Asians and the era when the American and Canadian governments passed exclusion acts to keep Asian people from entering the country..



Given this, for many Asian North Americans, it's not just this term: It's about much more...It's about our legitimacy to be here..



On the old Asian American forums this issues of perpetual foreigner syndrome were common topics.

I found the website you got this from BTW.  I'm not saying you can't be offended by the term but I find it rather telling that you need a website to provide you with YOUR reasoning for being offended by it.



I did keep reading and I found that there's a rather significant split in whether or not Asians find the word offensive at all. Guess Shen's not the only one Rambo.

There are many sources like that RW..



It expresses how I feel about such an antiquated and derogatory term..



This was a big topic of discussion on the old Asian American forums..



John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in the 1970s. Tchen has said, "With the anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term ''Oriental'' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."



I agree with him, Oriental does racialize us as outsiders.

And the term "Asians" doesn't?

[RW]

The last time I heard a public official used the word "Oriental" they had to apologize for it. I am not saying Ford should have been forced to do that. He was actually being complimentary if you look at the full context. This is the society we live in though. Words matter. There's nothing you can do about, but go along.

Or people can stop apologizing for using words that aren't contextually derogatory and we can stop calling for them to do it because it's PC bullshit.

[Anonymous]

The last time I heard a public official used the word "Oriental" they had to apologize for it. I am not saying Ford should have been forced to do that. He was actually being complimentary if you look at the full context. This is the society we live in though. Words matter. There's nothing you can do about, but go along.

Or people can stop apologizing for using words that aren't contextually derogatory and we can stop calling for them to do it because it's PC bullshit.

I tend to agree with you. Society has taken it to witch hunt extremes. It started as a good idea to make slurs socially unacceptable. But, we have taken it so far now that context does not seem to matter very much



When I was a kid, a former premier of Ontario was forced to apologize for saying a picture of himself made him look like a retard. That was David Peterson by the way.

[RW]

If it's not one word it's another and then we ban that word and move to another and then that word becomes offensive and we move to another...  



It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Growing up in rural Saskatchewan everyone I knew used slurs for Natives. We used it to insult them, not them. It did not matter.



That was a long time ago. I have not heard old fashioned words like coloured in a long time. If someone called an openly gay guy a fruit or a fairy for everyone to hear, I would have been just as surprised.

[RW]

And some people don't keep up on the PC word du jour.  I don't find that surprising.

[Anonymous]

The N word has deep social and cultural meaning to black people.  If they were asked, they could cite those reasons without any trouble.



You don't seem to be able to say why the term "Oriental" is offensive to you.  Why is that?

Oriental also has deep social and cultural meaning to East Asian people..



People link the term to old stereotypes of East Asians and the era when the American and Canadian governments passed exclusion acts to keep Asian people from entering the country..



Given this, for many Asian North Americans, it's not just this term: It's about much more...It's about our legitimacy to be here..



On the old Asian American forums this issues of perpetual foreigner syndrome were common topics.

Do you have any fucking thoughts of your own on this or can you only repeat the type of shit that was on f44 and GS boards over a decade ago?

[Anonymous]

This thread has talked about the history of racism. Here's an interesting article by Thomas Sowell about the American Left's history of racism. Most of it I knew about.

Much is made of the fact that liberals and conservatives see racial issues differently, which they do. But these differences have too often been seen as simply those on the right being racist and those on the left not.

You can cherry-pick the evidence to reach that conclusion. But you can also cherry-pick the evidence to reach the opposite conclusion.

During the heyday of the Progressive movement in the early 20th century, people on the left were in the forefront of those promoting doctrines of innate, genetic inferiority of not only blacks but also of people from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, as compared to people from Western Europe.

Liberals today tend to either glide over the undeniable racism of Progressive President Woodrow Wilson or else treat it as an anomaly of some sort. But racism on the left at that time was not an anomaly, either for President Wilson or for numerous other stalwarts of the Progressive movement.

An influential 1916 best-seller, "The Passing of the Great Race" — celebrating Nordic Europeans — was written by Madison Grant, a staunch activist for Progressive causes such as endangered species, municipal reform, conservation and the creation of national parks.

He was a member of an exclusive social club founded by Republican Progressive Theodore Roosevelt, and Grant and Franklin D. Roosevelt became friends in the 1920s, addressing one another in letters as "My dear Frank" and "My dear Madison." Grant's book was translated into German, and Adolf Hitler called it his Bible.

Progressives spearheaded the eugenics movement, dedicated to reducing the reproduction of supposedly "inferior" individuals and races. The eugenics movement spawned Planned Parenthood, among other groups. In academia, there were 376 courses devoted to eugenics in 1920.

Progressive intellectuals who crusaded against the admission of immigrants from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, branding them as genetically inferior, included many prominent academic scholars — such as heads of such scholarly organizations as the American Economic Association and the American Sociological Association.

Southern segregationists who railed against blacks were often also Progressives who railed against Wall Street. Back in those days, blacks voted for Republicans as automatically as they vote for Democrats today.

Where the Democrats' President Woodrow Wilson introduced racial segregation into those government agencies in Washington where it did not exist at the time, Republican President Calvin Coolidge's wife invited the wives of black Congressmen to the White House. As late as 1957, civil rights legislation was sponsored in Congress by Republicans and opposed by Democrats.

Later, when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was sponsored by Democrats, a higher percentage of Congressional Republicans voted for it than did Congressional Democrats. Revisionist histories tell a different story. But, as Casey Stengel used to say, "You could look it up" — in the Congressional Record, in this case.

Conservatives who took part in the civil rights marches, or who were otherwise for equal rights for blacks, have not made nearly as much noise about it as liberals do. The first time I saw a white professor, at a white university, with a black secretary, it was Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago in 1960 — four years before the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

She was still his secretary when he died in 2006. But, in all those years, I never once heard Professor Friedman mention, in public or in private, that he had a black secretary. By all accounts, she was an outstanding secretary, and that was what mattered.

The biggest difference between the left and right today, when it comes to racial issues, is that liberals tend to take the side of those blacks who are doing the wrong things — hoodlums the left depicts as martyrs, while the right defends those blacks more likely to be the victims of those hoodlums.

Rudolph Giuliani, when he was the Republican mayor of New York, probably saved more black lives than any other human being, by promoting aggressive policing against hoodlums, which brought the murder rate down to a fraction of what it was before.

A lot depends on whether you judge by ringing words or judge by actual consequences.

http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/65915/thomas-sowell-black-and-white-left-and-right">http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/ ... -and-right">http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/65915/thomas-sowell-black-and-white-left-and-right

[Anonymous]

This thread has talked about the history of racism. Here's an interesting article by Thomas Sowell about the American Left's history of racism. Most of it I knew about.

Much is made of the fact that liberals and conservatives see racial issues differently, which they do. But these differences have too often been seen as simply those on the right being racist and those on the left not.

You can cherry-pick the evidence to reach that conclusion. But you can also cherry-pick the evidence to reach the opposite conclusion.

During the heyday of the Progressive movement in the early 20th century, people on the left were in the forefront of those promoting doctrines of innate, genetic inferiority of not only blacks but also of people from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, as compared to people from Western Europe.

Liberals today tend to either glide over the undeniable racism of Progressive President Woodrow Wilson or else treat it as an anomaly of some sort. But racism on the left at that time was not an anomaly, either for President Wilson or for numerous other stalwarts of the Progressive movement.

An influential 1916 best-seller, "The Passing of the Great Race" — celebrating Nordic Europeans — was written by Madison Grant, a staunch activist for Progressive causes such as endangered species, municipal reform, conservation and the creation of national parks.

He was a member of an exclusive social club founded by Republican Progressive Theodore Roosevelt, and Grant and Franklin D. Roosevelt became friends in the 1920s, addressing one another in letters as "My dear Frank" and "My dear Madison." Grant's book was translated into German, and Adolf Hitler called it his Bible.

Progressives spearheaded the eugenics movement, dedicated to reducing the reproduction of supposedly "inferior" individuals and races. The eugenics movement spawned Planned Parenthood, among other groups. In academia, there were 376 courses devoted to eugenics in 1920.

Progressive intellectuals who crusaded against the admission of immigrants from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, branding them as genetically inferior, included many prominent academic scholars — such as heads of such scholarly organizations as the American Economic Association and the American Sociological Association.

Southern segregationists who railed against blacks were often also Progressives who railed against Wall Street. Back in those days, blacks voted for Republicans as automatically as they vote for Democrats today.

Where the Democrats' President Woodrow Wilson introduced racial segregation into those government agencies in Washington where it did not exist at the time, Republican President Calvin Coolidge's wife invited the wives of black Congressmen to the White House. As late as 1957, civil rights legislation was sponsored in Congress by Republicans and opposed by Democrats.

Later, when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was sponsored by Democrats, a higher percentage of Congressional Republicans voted for it than did Congressional Democrats. Revisionist histories tell a different story. But, as Casey Stengel used to say, "You could look it up" — in the Congressional Record, in this case.

Conservatives who took part in the civil rights marches, or who were otherwise for equal rights for blacks, have not made nearly as much noise about it as liberals do. The first time I saw a white professor, at a white university, with a black secretary, it was Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago in 1960 — four years before the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

She was still his secretary when he died in 2006. But, in all those years, I never once heard Professor Friedman mention, in public or in private, that he had a black secretary. By all accounts, she was an outstanding secretary, and that was what mattered.

The biggest difference between the left and right today, when it comes to racial issues, is that liberals tend to take the side of those blacks who are doing the wrong things — hoodlums the left depicts as martyrs, while the right defends those blacks more likely to be the victims of those hoodlums.

Rudolph Giuliani, when he was the Republican mayor of New York, probably saved more black lives than any other human being, by promoting aggressive policing against hoodlums, which brought the murder rate down to a fraction of what it was before.

A lot depends on whether you judge by ringing words or judge by actual consequences.

http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/65915/thomas-sowell-black-and-white-left-and-right">http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/ ... -and-right">http://westnewsmagazine.com/2016/03/23/65915/thomas-sowell-black-and-white-left-and-right

So, it was between 1957 and 1964 that the black vote went from overwhelmingly Republican to Democrat. I thought it was earlier than that.

[Anonymous]

The N word has deep social and cultural meaning to black people.  If they were asked, they could cite those reasons without any trouble.



You don't seem to be able to say why the term "Oriental" is offensive to you.  Why is that?

Oriental also has deep social and cultural meaning to East Asian people..



People link the term to old stereotypes of East Asians and the era when the American and Canadian governments passed exclusion acts to keep Asian people from entering the country..



Given this, for many Asian North Americans, it's not just this term: It's about much more...It's about our legitimacy to be here..



On the old Asian American forums this issues of perpetual foreigner syndrome were common topics.

I found the website you got this from BTW.  I'm not saying you can't be offended by the term but I find it rather telling that you need a website to provide you with YOUR reasoning for being offended by it.



I did keep reading and I found that there's a rather significant split in whether or not Asians find the word offensive at all. Guess Shen's not the only one Rambo.

There are many sources like that RW..



It expresses how I feel about such an antiquated and derogatory term..



This was a big topic of discussion on the old Asian American forums..



John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in the 1970s. Tchen has said, "With the anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term ''Oriental'' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."



I agree with him, Oriental does racialize us as outsiders.

And the term "Asians" doesn't?

I'm an Asian Canadian..



On the now defunct Asian boards we always promoted usage of the word Asian American as most posters lived in the USA.

[RW]

Why aren't you just a Canadian?  If "oriental" is a no no because it segregates you, how is using the word "Asian" any different?

[Anonymous]

Why aren't you just a Canadian?  If "oriental" is a no no because it segregates you, how is using the word "Asian" any different?

I don't mind you calling me a Canadian RW..

 ac_smile

If I am to be described I would prefer it not to be Oriental though.

[Anonymous]

Why aren't you just a Canadian?  If "oriental" is a no no because it segregates you, how is using the word "Asian" any different?

I don't mind you calling me a Canadian RW..

 ac_smile

If I am to be described I would prefer it not to be Oriental though.

If someone does, it SHOULD be a case of who fucking cares.

[@realAzhyaAryola]

Flippos!!!

Hippos!  

[@realAzhyaAryola]

I'm not offended by being referred to as "oriental."