Should I pack this in bear country?

[Anonymous]

He's an expert on crime control in areas where gun ownership is prolific.



Isn't he?

He's not even an expert flamer. Not that that is anything to boast about except to the deranged lowlifes at the soon to be extinct TRF.

[Bricktop]

In truth, many of his peers mock and sneer at him. He is not highly regarded other than by those of his vintage who simply cannot live without insulting, humiliating, trolling or sneering at others. Its an obsession and compulsion driven by a character flaw the size of Mt Everest.



It is stating the stupifyingly obvious to observe that the driving force behind this mentality is a degree of self loathing high on the Weinstein scale.

[Angry White Male]

Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.



Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.

I appreciate your effort, but you haven't moved me, Renee...



Improved Cylinder is the choke that I run in the Browning for slugs, which should be optimal for slug usage.



Just admit that a 12 Gauge is a very powerful firearm at closer ranges, with devastating results.



And I'll also state this!  If you were worthy of being my partner in an actual African Safari, then yes...  I would equip ourselves not only with your beloved .45-70, but with a rifle chambered in .375 Holland & Holland.  Why?  It's one of the most powerful rounds that are still relatively available no matter where you go!



Now tell me how your beloved .45-70 can even begin to trump .375 H&H.  I dare ya!

[Angry White Male]

I can't blame you for being patriotic, Renee.  But it's like trying to say that a 9mm is garbage, while .45 ACP always takes the target down.



You and I know that's not the truth, but I can smell your patriotism...

[Renee]

Mel, you're stuck on one aspect of terminal performance and it's one of lesser importance. In order to inflict as much damage as possible on dangerous game you have to use a round that deforms yet retains it's weight and mass so that it obtains optimal penetration. A 12 gauge slug on average is too soft to retain it's mass while achieving proper penetration. Soft slugs tend to deform rapidly on impact thus impeding penetration. Now if you insist on using a shotgun it is my understanding that the 20ga sabot rounds from companies Brenneki out perform most 12 ga slugs for accuracy and penetration. Either way, given the choice, I personally would not want to face down a big brown with a shotgun of any kind. You do what you want but at least get a barrel for that pump gun that is more optimal for shooting slugs.



Now as to your idea that just because a 12ga slug may move a little faster than a 45-70 govt....well just remember that the 45-70 started it's life in the 19th century as a black powder round and in its over 100 years of existance it has been used successfully on everything from whitetail deer to elephants. Can the same be said for the 12ga....no, sorry.

I appreciate your effort, but you haven't moved me, Renee...



Improved Cylinder is the choke that I run in the Browning for slugs, which should be optimal for slug usage.



Just admit that a 12 Gauge is a very powerful firearm at closer ranges, with devastating results.



And I'll also state this!  If you were worthy of being my partner in an actual African Safari, then yes...  I would equip ourselves not only with your beloved .45-70, but with a rifle chambered in .375 Holland & Holland.  Why?  It's one of the most powerful rounds that are still relatively available no matter where you go!



Now tell me how your beloved .45-70 can even begin to trump .375 H&H.  I dare ya!

Two very different rounds, for 2 very different applications, for 2 very different rifles types...apples and oranges, Mel.



I dont care what you say, because you are wrong......12 gauge slugs do not have the penetration like any .44 cal or similar round. Unless you are using some kind of sabot type slug you are at a disadvantage....That's a fact proven buy ballistics and wound cavity studies....Your opinion is invalid by comparison.



By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't  assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's  not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.

[Blazor]

I just want to applaud your gun knowledge Renee lol.



And I believe you are right, the choke tubes are for shot, not slugs. They are to control the "spread" of the shot, depending on what you are hunting.

[Angry White Male]

By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't  assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's  not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.

Browning says Improved Cylinder is choice for slugs, as do most other shotgun manufacturers...  And lead buckshot can be fired through any modern choke.  Steel may be a different story, but Browning modern chokes are made for steel also.  Come on Renee, get with the program...  It's clear to me that you haven't brushed up on shot-gun etiquette for quite some time.  No fox hunt for you!  You can slum with the bums, while I enjoy tea-time with royalty after the fox hunt, ya bum!



I/C or Cylinder is A-OK for slugs.  And of COURSE it won't be mega-accurate at longer ranges!  That's not what they were designed for!



Remember I'm talking about close-range defense, and not long-range hunting abilities!

[cc]

I just want to applaud your gun knowledge Renee lol.



And I believe you are right, the choke tubes are for shot, not slugs. They are to control the "spread" of the shot, depending on what you are hunting.

I'm kinda surprised that our a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious item

[Angry White Male]

I'm kinda surprised that a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious item

Don't even fucking try...  I've forgotten more than most here will ever know.  Renee is the ONLY one here that is even somewhat certified to debate with me...

[cc]

Really Lame try to save yourself after getting it dead wrong



" somewhat certified "   ... she's a  major leaguer ... listen and learn sonny

[Angry White Male]

Really Lame try to save yourself after getting it dead wrong

" somewhat certified "   ... she's a  major leaguer ... listen and learn sonny

Um no...  Nothing I've stated is wrong.  You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should just probably stay out of gun talk between Renee and I.



In fact, I doubt you even know what shotgun choke is, so don't pretend to be smarter than you actually are...

[cc]

Have used one many times "to control the width of shot spread"  ... mainly as a teen when I was into hunting ... still have chokes for the 12 guage, just don't use it often now .. occasionally for skeet



That's what they are for  ... as your superior  pointed out to you



Again, listen and learn from the major leaguer

[Angry White Male]

Then you should know that Improved Cylinder choke is what most manufacturers recommend when throwing slugs down the barrel...



You and Renee should both know this before opening your yaps, and calling me 'wrong.'



Now get back to emptying the dishwasher!

[Angry White Male]

This is what happens when women are told that they are equals to the man...  Nothing ever good comes of it!

[cc]

Mel's world