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Santa's Here - Form an orderly queue.

Started by Bricktop, November 27, 2017, 06:34:11 PM

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Zetsu

#75
November 29, 2017, 10:08:53 PM Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:37:54 PM by Zetsu
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Zetsu"


I'm not exactly sure what does the p stands for but in Ontario it's currently at 6.5 cents per kWh from 7pm-7am, assuming the Model 3 has a 75kWh battery and can travel 550km per full charge.  6.5*75=487 cents for each 550km, that's $0.0088 CAD per km traveled, unless I'm mistaken.


QuoteCost of Charging

 

If you only have one hour you can charge for one hour and go - you don't need to charge to 100% all at once.

On average a typical battery EV will cost less than $300 per year, or about $0.78 per day to charge at night. *1

A typical plug-in hybrid EV will cost about $700 per year, or $1.92 per day for fuel (including gasoline and electricity costs). *2

Comparable gasoline cars can cost between $1,000 and $2,500 per year to fuel - up to eight times more money spent each day. *3

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicl ... icle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml

It's pence.



I would say that car could do less than half that on a full charge in Canada. Unless you're shelling out more than $100,000 for a Tesla Model S 85D that'll get you an advertised 435 km of range — you can only drive 120-200 km on a single charge, depending on the vehicle.



That range is even shorter when it's cold outside and you're using extra juice to heat the interior. Take away the taxes on fuels and put them on  electricity and the operating costs disappear entirely.


Tesla doesn't sell the 85D anymore, they've been upgrade to a 100kWh battery.  Depending on the weather at 20 degrees celsius @ 100km/hr the 100D can travel up to 540km per charge, while in cities speed with regenerative breaking it can go over 800km.  Though in the winter and at highway speeds they probably get only a bit over 400km per charge, but the same can go for gas cars fuel consumption almost double under freezing temperatures, especially in short distance trips, even if we average it all out it's about 600km per charge through out all season and between city/highway driving.  120-200km is closer to the entry level EVs like the leaf, fiat and egolf, while mid range ones like the bolt, model 3 and VW ID series can last about 500km, and ones like faraday future and roadster 2.0 can go up to 1000km per charge with formula 1 race car performance.  Shen you need to understand I have nothing against gas cars, but just saying EVs aren't as bad as how they seem, plus I don't think owning electric cars can leave a dent on the oil industry, considering oils is the most useful, practical and precious energy we only have.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#76
November 29, 2017, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Zetsu"


I'm not exactly sure what does the p stands for but in Ontario it's currently at 6.5 cents per kWh from 7pm-7am, assuming the Model 3 has a 75kWh battery and can travel 550km per full charge.  6.5*75=487 cents for each 550km, that's $0.0088 CAD per km traveled, unless I'm mistaken.


QuoteCost of Charging

 

If you only have one hour you can charge for one hour and go - you don't need to charge to 100% all at once.

On average a typical battery EV will cost less than $300 per year, or about $0.78 per day to charge at night. *1

A typical plug-in hybrid EV will cost about $700 per year, or $1.92 per day for fuel (including gasoline and electricity costs). *2

Comparable gasoline cars can cost between $1,000 and $2,500 per year to fuel - up to eight times more money spent each day. *3

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicl ... icle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml

It's pence.



I would say that car could do less than half that on a full charge in Canada. Unless you're shelling out more than $100,000 for a Tesla Model S 85D that'll get you an advertised 435 km of range — you can only drive 120-200 km on a single charge, depending on the vehicle.



That range is even shorter when it's cold outside and you're using extra juice to heat the interior. Take away the taxes on fuels and put them on  electricity and the operating costs disappear entirely.


Tesla doesn't sell the 85D anymore, they've been upgrade to a 100kWh battery.  Depending on the weather at 20 degrees celsius @ 100km/hr the 100D can travel up to 540km per charge, while in cities speed with regenerative breaking it can go over 800km.  Though in the winter and at highway speeds they probably get only a bit over 400km per charge, but the same can go for gas cars fuel consumption almost double under freezing temperatures, especially in short distance trips, even if we average it all out it's about 600km per charge through out all season and between city/highway driving.  120-200km is closer to the entry level EVs like the leaf, fiat and egolf, while mid range ones like the bolt, model 3 and VW ID series can last about 500km, and ones like faraday future and roadster 2.0 can go up to 1000km per charge with formula 1 race car performance.  I have nothing against gas cars, but just saying EVs aren't as bad as how they seem, plus I don't think owning electric cars will leave a mark on the oil industry.

You can still buy it though and there are more resale cars sold than new.  



I can  go  a thousand kilometres on a tank of fuel in my Jetta.  I can't drive to Buffalo from Barrie on a single charge in a Volkswagen e-Golf. And that's in the summer time.

Zetsu

#77
November 29, 2017, 10:26:09 PM Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 10:34:14 PM by Zetsu
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Blazor"Santa's gonna be real upset when he finds out y'all conspiring to use electric cars. You know he dont supply the batteries! lol

lol



EV's are not a bad idea when the taxpayer is subsiding the price of the vehicles. And taxes on fossil fuels subsidizes free electricity at malls and hotels.



If everyone were to charge their vehicle overnight the demand would be around three times greater – or almost the entire current  winter electricity use. To put this in perspective, even a 50 per cent increase of electric cars, spread over the next 10 years or so, is unlikely.


That's true, but if we look at the past, now and the future, the price of entry level EV will be cheaper than gas car within a decade or 2, just like hybrid cars that used to 30grand, but now they're starting around only at 20grand.  And the tax rebate will go away in a few years or when teh libs are finally kicked out of the parliament.  For the super chargers they'll only be free for ppl that have purchased the model X or S.  



But if everyone owns an EV, the price of electricity will definately go up, espeically during off-peak hours unless the government does something about it.  But EV gaining a portion of the transportation market is not impossible, especially in China.



Sustainable Energy

[size=150]The 2020s Could Be the Decade When Electric Cars Take Over[/size]

A new analysis of battery costs predicts that EVs will start making significant gains in market share in the next few years.



https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6009 ... take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/
Permanently off his rocker

Zetsu

#78
November 29, 2017, 10:32:47 PM
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Shen Li"
Quote from: "Zetsu"


I'm not exactly sure what does the p stands for but in Ontario it's currently at 6.5 cents per kWh from 7pm-7am, assuming the Model 3 has a 75kWh battery and can travel 550km per full charge.  6.5*75=487 cents for each 550km, that's $0.0088 CAD per km traveled, unless I'm mistaken.


QuoteCost of Charging

 

If you only have one hour you can charge for one hour and go - you don't need to charge to 100% all at once.

On average a typical battery EV will cost less than $300 per year, or about $0.78 per day to charge at night. *1

A typical plug-in hybrid EV will cost about $700 per year, or $1.92 per day for fuel (including gasoline and electricity costs). *2

Comparable gasoline cars can cost between $1,000 and $2,500 per year to fuel - up to eight times more money spent each day. *3

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicl ... icle.shtml">http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/charging-electric-vehicle.shtml

It's pence.



I would say that car could do less than half that on a full charge in Canada. Unless you're shelling out more than $100,000 for a Tesla Model S 85D that'll get you an advertised 435 km of range — you can only drive 120-200 km on a single charge, depending on the vehicle.



That range is even shorter when it's cold outside and you're using extra juice to heat the interior. Take away the taxes on fuels and put them on  electricity and the operating costs disappear entirely.


Tesla doesn't sell the 85D anymore, they've been upgrade to a 100kWh battery.  Depending on the weather at 20 degrees celsius @ 100km/hr the 100D can travel up to 540km per charge, while in cities speed with regenerative breaking it can go over 800km.  Though in the winter and at highway speeds they probably get only a bit over 400km per charge, but the same can go for gas cars fuel consumption almost double under freezing temperatures, especially in short distance trips, even if we average it all out it's about 600km per charge through out all season and between city/highway driving.  120-200km is closer to the entry level EVs like the leaf, fiat and egolf, while mid range ones like the bolt, model 3 and VW ID series can last about 500km, and ones like faraday future and roadster 2.0 can go up to 1000km per charge with formula 1 race car performance.  I have nothing against gas cars, but just saying EVs aren't as bad as how they seem, plus I don't think owning electric cars will leave a mark on the oil industry.

You can still buy it though and there are more resale cars sold than new.  



I can  go  a thousand kilometres on a tank of fuel in my Jetta.  I can't drive to Buffalo from Barrie on a single charge in a Volkswagen e-Golf. And that's in the summer time.


It really depends on your needs, when it comes to long distance travel gas is definately the superior choice, i believe the egolf can only go around 330km max on eco+ mode, and you'll need to charge it at a station for 45mins.  But 1000km on one tank is pretty insane for a gas car, even my civic hybrid only travels 800km per tank and it's already a very gasoline efficent car.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#79
November 29, 2017, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: "Zetsu"
A new analysis of battery costs predicts that EVs will start making significant gains in market share in the next few years.



https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6009 ... take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/

That seems like an impossibility. Electricity was designed for coffee pots, not transportation. We would never be able to meet the exponential demand for power.



And electric car manufacturers receive subsidies as well as the consumer. But, they have come down in price, that's undeniable.

Anonymous

#80
November 29, 2017, 10:45:56 PM
Quote from: "Zetsu"
It really depends on your needs, when it comes to long distance travel gas is definately the superior choice, i believe the egolf can only go around 330km max on eco+ mode, and you'll need to charge it at a station for 45mins.  But 1000km on one tank is pretty insane for a gas car, even my civic hybrid only travels 800km per tank and it's already a very gasoline efficent car.

I looked into one last year and it was 125 miles(200 kms). But,  that is only in test conditions.  I contacted owners and discovered that in  real conditions, it is about 100-120 km range. A forty five minute charge would  add about 45 kilometres. I travel a lot in my car, so it made no sense to buy one even with the subsidy.

Zetsu

#81
November 29, 2017, 11:14:14 PM Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:48:43 AM by Zetsu
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
A new analysis of battery costs predicts that EVs will start making significant gains in market share in the next few years.



https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6009 ... take-over/">https://www.technologyreview.com/s/600910/the-2020s-could-be-the-decade-when-electric-cars-take-over/

That seems like an impossibility. Electricity was designed for coffee pots, not transportation. We would never be able to meet the exponential demand for power.



And electric car manufacturers receive subsidies as well as the consumer. But, they have come down in price, that's undeniable.


You'll be surprised how much electricity it takes to convert into heat just to cook, even the all the strength of a Olympic champion on a bike generator is just barely enough to power a toaster.  Plus think about all the high voltage power tools, air conditioning, water heaters, cargo trains, clothing dryers, restaurant kitchens, heavy machineries in our factories running during the day, those old 100watt light bulbs, or 500 watt metal halide soccer stadium or street lamps, just about 12 of them running for 1 night is enough to fully charge up a model 3 and running for a 600km drive.
Permanently off his rocker

Zetsu

#82
November 29, 2017, 11:21:08 PM
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
It really depends on your needs, when it comes to long distance travel gas is definately the superior choice, i believe the egolf can only go around 330km max on eco+ mode, and you'll need to charge it at a station for 45mins.  But 1000km on one tank is pretty insane for a gas car, even my civic hybrid only travels 800km per tank and it's already a very gasoline efficent car.

I looked into one last year and it was 125 miles(200 kms). But,  that is only in test conditions.  I contacted owners and discovered that in  real conditions, it is about 100-120 km range. A forty five minute charge would  add about 45 kilometres. I travel a lot in my car, so it made no sense to buy one even with the subsidy.


Think the 100-120km range is the first gen egolf 2015 egolf the owner has that can only travel about 85miles.  The 2nd gen 2017 model should last 300km based on NEDC test standards.  And it's most likely he might have damage the battery through too much DC fast charging since the egolf still doesn't have built in liquid cooling.



[size=150]2017 VW e-Golf with up to 186 miles of range by the end of the year[/size]



The executive confirmed that the 2017 e-Golf will receive a battery upgrade by the end of the year and that it will allow for an NEDC rated range of 300 km (186 miles) on a single charge.



https://electrek.co/2016/05/23/2017-vw-e-golf-186-miles-range/">https://electrek.co/2016/05/23/2017-vw- ... les-range/">https://electrek.co/2016/05/23/2017-vw-e-golf-186-miles-range/
Permanently off his rocker

Bricktop

#83
November 29, 2017, 11:24:57 PM
300km in Australia is to the mall and back.



Useless.

Anonymous

#84
November 29, 2017, 11:44:20 PM
Quote from: "Zetsu"[

[size=150]2017 VW e-Golf with up to 186 miles of range by the end of the year[/size]

Volkswagen e-Golf

[size=150]The EPA estimates 125 miles of range[/size]

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/e-golf">https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/e-golf



And that is in ideal test conditions. The reality for drivers of the e-Golf in Canada is about  75 miles per charge or about 120 kms.

Zetsu

#85
November 30, 2017, 12:02:32 AM Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:09:46 AM by Zetsu
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"[



The EPA is definitely not ideal, if it's ideal then how could the NEDC test resulted in 300kilometers of range, and people reporting on eco+ mode they get around 330km in city stop and go traffic.  About the 75miles per charge I believe is the first generation egolf or some how they kept DC fast charging at every station to a level the battery is almost non-usable.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#86
November 30, 2017, 12:09:32 AM
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"[


You raise a good point about driving ranges for electric vehicles..



I did a search and discovered this,

Looking back at nearly 2,700 miles of all-electric motoring, the longest distance we saw on a full charge was 108 miles—and at that point the trip computer still anticipated 3 miles remaining (the turtle symbol had illuminated in the gauge cluster and the drivetrain was severely limiting power at that point).



We reached this top end for driving range, of around 110 miles, at least two other times—when we'd used the climate control lightly, and driven carefully at city speeds.



The lowest range we saw when waiting as long as we comfortably could before plugging back in was 58 miles—during a cold snap just below 30 degrees F, with the heat and heated seats on, with most of the charge spent on the highway, at around 70 mph.

This is not on the latest e-Gulf model,  but you get the idea..



I read the new Altima gets about 920 kilometres on a single tank of gasoline..



That's hard to believe.

Zetsu

#87
November 30, 2017, 12:22:01 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"[


You raise a good point about driving ranges for electric vehicles..



I did a search and discovered this,

Looking back at nearly 2,700 miles of all-electric motoring, the longest distance we saw on a full charge was 108 miles—and at that point the trip computer still anticipated 3 miles remaining (the turtle symbol had illuminated in the gauge cluster and the drivetrain was severely limiting power at that point).



We reached this top end for driving range, of around 110 miles, at least two other times—when we'd used the climate control lightly, and driven carefully at city speeds.



The lowest range we saw when waiting as long as we comfortably could before plugging back in was 58 miles—during a cold snap just below 30 degrees F, with the heat and heated seats on, with most of the charge spent on the highway, at around 70 mph.

This is not on the latest e-Gulf model,  but you get the idea..



I read the new Altima gets about 920 kilometres on a single tank of gasoline..



That's hard to believe.


The range of EVs are problem, but think this is VW's first electric car so it's not surprising.  The new ID series should have a range of at least 300 miles based on EPA standards and 250-310 horse power coming in 2020.  But 920km for the new Altima, looks like gas cars are upping it another level, which is always nice to see, the last thing we need is a stale and stagnant economy/market.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#88
November 30, 2017, 12:28:38 AM
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"[


You raise a good point about driving ranges for electric vehicles..



I did a search and discovered this,

Looking back at nearly 2,700 miles of all-electric motoring, the longest distance we saw on a full charge was 108 miles—and at that point the trip computer still anticipated 3 miles remaining (the turtle symbol had illuminated in the gauge cluster and the drivetrain was severely limiting power at that point).



We reached this top end for driving range, of around 110 miles, at least two other times—when we'd used the climate control lightly, and driven carefully at city speeds.



The lowest range we saw when waiting as long as we comfortably could before plugging back in was 58 miles—during a cold snap just below 30 degrees F, with the heat and heated seats on, with most of the charge spent on the highway, at around 70 mph.

This is not on the latest e-Gulf model,  but you get the idea..



I read the new Altima gets about 920 kilometres on a single tank of gasoline..



That's hard to believe.


The range of EVs are problem, but think this is VW's first electric car so it's not surprising.  The new ID series should have a range of at least 300 miles based on EPA standards and 250h-310 horse power coming in 2020.  But 920km for the new Altima, looks like gas cars are upping it another level, which is always nice to see, the last thing we need is a stale and stagnant economy/market.

It's more expensive than the e-Golf..



And I tend to agree with Seoul those ranges are skewed towards best condition test scenarios.

Zetsu

#89
November 30, 2017, 12:41:51 AM
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "Zetsu"
Quote from: "Fashionista"
Quote from: "seoulbro"
Quote from: "Zetsu"[


You raise a good point about driving ranges for electric vehicles..



I did a search and discovered this,

Looking back at nearly 2,700 miles of all-electric motoring, the longest distance we saw on a full charge was 108 miles—and at that point the trip computer still anticipated 3 miles remaining (the turtle symbol had illuminated in the gauge cluster and the drivetrain was severely limiting power at that point).



We reached this top end for driving range, of around 110 miles, at least two other times—when we'd used the climate control lightly, and driven carefully at city speeds.



The lowest range we saw when waiting as long as we comfortably could before plugging back in was 58 miles—during a cold snap just below 30 degrees F, with the heat and heated seats on, with most of the charge spent on the highway, at around 70 mph.

This is not on the latest e-Gulf model,  but you get the idea..



I read the new Altima gets about 920 kilometres on a single tank of gasoline..



That's hard to believe.


The range of EVs are problem, but think this is VW's first electric car so it's not surprising.  The new ID series should have a range of at least 300 miles based on EPA standards and 250h-310 horse power coming in 2020.  But 920km for the new Altima, looks like gas cars are upping it another level, which is always nice to see, the last thing we need is a stale and stagnant economy/market.

It's more expensive than the e-Golf..



And I tend to agree with Seoul those ranges are skewed towards best condition test scenarios.


But isn't Nissan Altima starting at 26000CAD?  Unless you take in the EV tax rebate then yea egolf will be a cheaper to purchase.  The EPA testing I wouldn't say their ideal, 15 years ago they were pretty loose but now they've been increasing the standards for gas and EVs.  It really depends on the driving style, in city tests like the NEDC an egolf would get about 300km, while on highway due to air resistance they get about 200km only.
Permanently off his rocker
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