Quote from: "Big Wave Dave"

Quote from: "Obvious Li"

Quote from: "Big Wave Dave"
Rene is a typical, big mouthed white American pig. Her breed is the reason North American men are turning our backs on white women. I feel sorry for her husband or boyfriend.

normally i wouldn't respond to this trollbait.....but i do because it gives me an opportunity to say once again how much i admire Renee for her brains, wit  beauty and charm.....signed, a big Renee fan........ :)

You need to get out of Canada if you think Renee is a beauty.

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"If the truth doesn't fit the agenda he gets his panties in a wad and he will do and say anything to try and defend what he believes; even if it means making an ass out of himself. He is very well intentioned but at times very wrong as well.

On the contrary, it's your panties in a wad over your fellow citizens including African Americans right to vote. It actually angers you. Insisting that citizens and minorities you don't like shouldn't be able to vote is an agenda. I'm simply defending Canadian and American values.



I'm definitely not wrong according to your Founding Fathers, Constitution and common sense. The idea that only "men of means" should be allowed to vote is ridiculous. Canada and the US are democracies.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"If the truth doesn't fit the agenda he gets his panties in a wad and he will do and say anything to try and defend what he believes; even if it means making an ass out of himself. He is very well intentioned but at times very wrong as well.

On the contrary, it's your panties in a wad over your fellow citizens including African Americans right to vote. It actually angers you. Insisting that citizens and minorities you don't like shouldn't be able to vote is an agenda. I'm simply defending Canadian and American values.



I'm definitely not wrong according to your Founding Fathers, Constitution and common sense. The idea that only "men of means" should be allowed to vote is ridiculous. Canada and the US are democracies.

All you do is take the statements from the opposing argument and state the opposite. It doesn't matter how stupid or inane you look doing it as long as you get to run your yap. Debating you is like debating Pee Wee Herman and you make about as much sense. That's your typical M.O. You're a one note diversionary idiot with IKYABWAI comeback for everything.

 

What you know about the founding fathers of the US and their sociopolitical point of view could be put into a thimble and there would still be room left over. You have absolutely NO clue what you are saying. If the concept of voting rights were totally inclusionary mean everyone was naturally granted the right to vote then WHY did is take almost 150 years for WOMEN to be granted the right to vote in the US?



You're just a far left babbling stooge and I think its best that you shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Romero"
On the contrary, it's your panties in a wad over your fellow citizens including African Americans right to vote. It actually angers you. Insisting that citizens and minorities you don't like shouldn't be able to vote is an agenda. I'm simply defending Canadian and American values.



I'm definitely not wrong according to your Founding Fathers, Constitution and common sense. The idea that only "men of means" should be allowed to vote is ridiculous. Canada and the US are democracies.

All you do is take the statements from the opposing argument and state the opposite. It doesn't matter how stupid or inane you look doing it as long as you get to run your yap. Debating you is like debating Pee Wee Herman and you make about as much sense. That's your typical M.O. You're a one note diversionary idiot with IKYABWAI comeback for everything.

 

What you know about the founding fathers of the US and their sociopolitical point of view could be put into a thimble and there would still be room left over. You have absolutely NO clue what you are saying. If the concept of voting rights were totally inclusionary mean everyone was naturally granted the right to vote then WHY did is take almost 150 years for WOMEN to be granted the right to vote in the US?



You're just a far left babbling stooge and I think its best that you shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

It's silly because you have never said voting should come with race restrictions. Your whole point is how the US Democratic party has taken the black vote for granted. In fact, they have no desire to see them move further up the economic food chain. Keep em poor, uneducated and dependent is in the interests of the jackassass party.

Quote from: "Renee"
Romero will never get it because he is a brainwashed liberal dolt. He thinks I'm upset about blacks voting when the reality is that I'm upset about the black community being made into dependent uneducated poverty stricken chumps by a group of disingenuous politicians for the sake of an agenda. Furthermore he thinks that our founding fathers were of the opinion that voting rights were just some kind of God given right no matter whom or what you were in society. That is patently false and the prime example is that woman in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries did not have the right to vote and didn't have the right to vote until 1920 with the ratification of the 19th Amendment.

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"
Romero will never get it because he is a brainwashed liberal dolt. He thinks I'm upset about blacks voting when the reality is that I'm upset about the black community being made into dependent uneducated poverty stricken chumps by a group of disingenuous politicians for the sake of an agenda. Furthermore he thinks that our founding fathers were of the opinion that voting rights were just some kind of God given right no matter whom or what you were in society. That is patently false and the prime example is that woman in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries did not have the right to vote and didn't have the right to vote until 1920 with the ratification of the 19th Amendment.

We all get it Renee, including Romero himself.

Quote from: "Renee"

Quote from: "Shen Li"

Quote from: "Renee"
Romero will never get it because he is a brainwashed liberal dolt. He thinks I'm upset about blacks voting when the reality is that I'm upset about the black community being made into dependent uneducated poverty stricken chumps by a group of disingenuous politicians for the sake of an agenda. Furthermore he thinks that our founding fathers were of the opinion that voting rights were just some kind of God given right no matter whom or what you were in society. That is patently false and the prime example is that woman in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries did not have the right to vote and didn't have the right to vote until 1920 with the ratification of the 19th Amendment.

We all get it Renee, including Romero himself.

I think you give him waaaaay too much credit.  

Quote from: "Renee"You're just a far left babbling stooge and I think its best that you shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"You're just a far left babbling stooge and I think its best that you shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

Why so upset? It's just a little discussion.



Nope, you're the one with the opposing argument. African Americans, other minorities and the poor aren't banned from voting, are they? Equal rights are enshrined in your Constitution. No politician or court would dare entertain the idea of taking voting rights away based on race or income.



The vast majority of Americans are against taking the right to vote away from their fellow citizens. It's not what America and democracy stands for. This makes yours the opposing view.

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Renee"You're just a far left babbling stooge and I think its best that you shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

Why so upset? It's just a little discussion.



Nope, you're the one with the opposing argument. African Americans, other minorities and the poor aren't banned from voting, are they? Equal rights are enshrined in your Constitution. No politician or court would dare entertain the idea of taking voting rights away based on race or income.



The vast majority of Americans are against taking the right to vote away from their fellow citizens. It's not what America and democracy stands for. This makes yours the opposing view.

Quote from: "Shen Li"That's because you keep repeating the same silly line that Renee has not said. She's giving pretty solid examples of how the Democratic party does NOT deserve the African-American vote, but takes it for granted anyway. You are not countering her arguments at all.

Quote from: "Renee"I'm not upset. Unfortunately like you most Americans don't understand the history of voting rights in the US or who voting rights were granted to and why. The US Constitution in its original form did not grant anyone the right to vote. It was purposely left ambiguous so that states could decide their own criteria.  Originally only Caucasians who owned more than a certain amount of land could vote because they were the main contributors to the agrarian style economy that the US had at the time. Only certain states like NJ allowed women to vote as long as they met the state mandated property ownership requirement. In some states freed slaves could vote only if they also met the property ownership requirement. So as you can see there was consensus throughout the states that only people of means and those who contributed to the welfare of society and supported the government financially thru taxes had the right to vote. All in all almost half the population was barred from voting because they didn't own enough land or paid taxes. It was almost 80 years before that consensus was changed and added to the US Constitution mainly because of the ramifications of the civil war and increased taxation. The idea that voting privileges should only be granted to those who have a stake in where the money is spent is nothing new and in fact it is the concept that laid the original foundation of voting rights in the US.



Whether you know it or not, it is still up to the individual states to deny or allow voting rights regardless of your status as a citizen, your race or gender. All of the states require registration before voting or you cannot vote. Many states require that you register a set number of weeks in advance of a federal election or you cannot vote. Many states do not allow convicted felons to vote and you cannot vote in any state, county, district or town other than the one you are registered in.



Voting rights are not natural rights they are legal rights and being legal rights they are subject to change at the will of the government. It has nothing to do with what American democracy stands for. Like I said previously you like most people in the US don't understand what voting rights are or how they are applied or where they come from. Just because my point of view on this subject is the opposing view it doesn't mean it is wrong; in fact it's the contrary. Popular "opinion" no matter how misinformed it happens to be is not the foundation or the crux of this issue.

Quote from: "Romero"

Quote from: "Shen Li"That's because you keep repeating the same silly line that Renee has not said. She's giving pretty solid examples of how the Democratic party does NOT deserve the African-American vote, but takes it for granted anyway. You are not countering her arguments at all.

Renee agreed with Obvious Li that certain people they don't like shouldn't be allowed to vote and she included African Americans.



If it's not what she said, why is she disagreeing with my opinion that all American citizens should have a right to vote? This thread is about who Obvious Li and Renee would deny voting to. I'm arguing that all American citizens should have the right to vote and she's claiming that I'm wrong.

Quote from: "Romero"See? She's trying to argue that certain people shouldn't have the right to vote even though they're citizens.



Imagine if I said white conservatives shouldn't have the right to vote because they always vote Republican. You'd all rightfully think I was out of my mind.  

Quote from: "Renee"I'm not upset. Unfortunately like you most Americans don't understand the history of voting rights in the US or who voting rights were granted to and why. The US Constitution in its original form did not grant anyone the right to vote. It was purposely left ambiguous so that states could decide their own criteria.  Originally only Caucasians who owned more than a certain amount of land could vote because they were the main contributors to the agrarian style economy that the US had at the time. Only certain states like NJ allowed women to vote as long as they met the state mandated property ownership requirement. In some states freed slaves could vote only if they also met the property ownership requirement. So as you can see there was consensus throughout the states that only people of means and those who contributed to the welfare of society and supported the government financially thru taxes had the right to vote. All in all almost half the population was barred from voting because they didn't own enough land or paid taxes. It was almost 80 years before that consensus was changed and added to the US Constitution mainly because of the ramifications of the civil war and increased taxation. The idea that voting privileges should only be granted to those who have a stake in where the money is spent is nothing new and in fact it is the concept that laid the original foundation of voting rights in the US.



Whether you know it or not, it is still up to the individual states to deny or allow voting rights regardless of your status as a citizen, your race or gender. All of the states require registration before voting or you cannot vote. Many states require that you register a set number of weeks in advance of a federal election or you cannot vote. Many states do not allow convicted felons to vote and you cannot vote in any state, county, district or town other than the one you are registered in.



Voting rights are not natural rights they are legal rights and being legal rights they are subject to change at the will of the government. It has nothing to do with what American democracy stands for. Like I said previously you like most people in the US don't understand what voting rights are or how they are applied or where they come from. Just because my point of view on this subject is the opposing view it doesn't mean it is wrong; in fact it's the contrary. Popular "opinion" no matter how misinformed it happens to be is not the foundation or the crux of this issue.

We're talking about now, not a hundred years ago.



All American citizens are equal under the Constitution and all American citizens have the right to vote. It's what Americans have fought for.



There's no going back to the days where women and African Americans were denied their rights. The Supreme Court has ruled those restrictions were unconstitutional.