Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56

Quote from: Herman post_id=447413 time=1650422172 user_id=1689

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447412 time=1650421332 user_id=56
The West promised back in 1990 that NATO would expand "not an inch to the east."

That was former Secretary of State james Baker who said that.

He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Quote
Thinking through the Ukraine crisis – the causes

"It would be extraordinarily difficult to expand Nato eastward without that action's being viewed by Russia as unfriendly. Even the most modest schemes would bring the alliance to the borders of the old Soviet Union. Some of the more ambitious versions would have the alliance virtually surround the Russian Federation itself." I wrote those words in 1994, in my book Beyond Nato: Staying Out of Europe's Wars, at a time when expansion proposals merely constituted occasional speculation in foreign policy seminars in New York and Washington. I added that expansion "would constitute a needless provocation of Russia".



What was not publicly known at the time was that Bill Clinton's administration had already made the fateful decision the previous year to push for including some former Warsaw Pact countries in Nato. The administration would soon propose inviting Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary to become members, and the US Senate approved adding those countries to the North Atlantic Treaty in 1998. It would be the first of several waves of membership expansion.



Even that first stage provoked Russian opposition and anger. In her memoir, Madeleine Albright, Clinton's secretary of state, concedes that "[Russian president Boris] Yeltsin and his countrymen were strongly opposed to enlargement, seeing it as a strategy for exploiting their vulnerability and moving Europe's dividing line to the east, leaving them isolated."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ia-ukraine">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56

Quote from: Herman post_id=447413 time=1650422172 user_id=1689

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447412 time=1650421332 user_id=56
The West promised back in 1990 that NATO would expand "not an inch to the east."

That was former Secretary of State james Baker who said that.

He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447590 time=1650503564 user_id=1688

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56

Quote from: Herman post_id=447413 time=1650422172 user_id=1689

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447412 time=1650421332 user_id=56
The West promised back in 1990 that NATO would expand "not an inch to the east."

That was former Secretary of State james Baker who said that.

He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

The United States and NATO have broken every assurance they have given Russia. I hate this war, and I'm sure Russia does too, but they have to defend themselves from further NATO threats.

Quote from: Fashionista post_id=447601 time=1650505088 user_id=3254

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447590 time=1650503564 user_id=1688

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56

Quote from: Herman post_id=447413 time=1650422172 user_id=1689

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447412 time=1650421332 user_id=56
The West promised back in 1990 that NATO would expand "not an inch to the east."

That was former Secretary of State james Baker who said that.

He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

The United States and NATO have broken every assurance they have given Russia. I hate this war, and I'm sure Russia does too, but they have to defend themselves from further NATO threats.

I don't want this war or any other, but I'm not sure certain interests in the USA feel the same.

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447612 time=1650505867 user_id=1688

Quote from: Fashionista post_id=447601 time=1650505088 user_id=3254

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447590 time=1650503564 user_id=1688

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56

Quote from: Herman post_id=447413 time=1650422172 user_id=1689


That was former Secretary of State james Baker who said that.

He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

The United States and NATO have broken every assurance they have given Russia. I hate this war, and I'm sure Russia does too, but they have to defend themselves from further NATO threats.

I don't want this war or any other, but I'm not sure certain interests in the USA feel the same.

I assume you mean military industrial corporate interests?

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447614 time=1650506312 user_id=56

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447612 time=1650505867 user_id=1688

Quote from: Fashionista post_id=447601 time=1650505088 user_id=3254

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447590 time=1650503564 user_id=1688

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447414 time=1650422583 user_id=56


He was far from being the only Western government official to offer assurances to the Russians that NATO would not expand East.



German Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, "The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next."

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ders-early">https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

The United States and NATO have broken every assurance they have given Russia. I hate this war, and I'm sure Russia does too, but they have to defend themselves from further NATO threats.

I don't want this war or any other, but I'm not sure certain interests in the USA feel the same.

I assume you mean military industrial corporate interests?

I know I sure as fuck do. Those companies own both political parties save the Trump wing of the GOP.

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447616 time=1650506938 user_id=1688
That is one of the worst aspects about Washington. Trump's administration scared them.

Quote from: "Dinky Dazza" post_id=447619 time=1650507948 user_id=1676
The anti Russia campaign over the decades has been highly effective.

Quote from: "Shen Li" post_id=447617 time=1650507725 user_id=56

Quote from: Thiel post_id=447616 time=1650506938 user_id=1688
That is one of the worst aspects about Washington. Trump's administration scared them.

This war wouldn't have happened if Trump was still president. He wasn't dumb enough or sleazy enough to offer NATO membership and US weaponry to a country beside Russia his son had dubious financial interests with while in Poland.