Quote from: DKG on Today at 10:30:37 AMI disagree. He wants to neutralize Ukraine and help an Eastern leading candidate get elected. Make it like Lukashenko in Belarus.

Maybe, but the end result is the same, i.e. Putin controls ukraine. Also, you cant ignore that he ALREADY claims Russian sovereignty over 20%? of ukraine??? What makes you think taking the rest isnt in the cards?

Quote from: Lokmar on Today at 10:33:49 AMMaybe, but the end result is the same, i.e. Putin controls ukraine. Also, you cant ignore that he ALREADY claims Russian sovereignty over 20%? of ukraine??? What makes you think taking the rest isnt in the cards?

Because that would be a red line with NATO. And besides not all of Ukraine is historically Russian territory. The areas under Russian control now are.

Quote from: DKG on Today at 10:49:09 AMBecause that would be a red line with NATO. And besides not all of Ukraine is historically Russian territory. The areas under Russian control now are.

I guess we'll see but again, the ONLY thing that matters to me is some sort of offramp.

Putin isnt giving up the land he's annexed or conquered. Z has to accept that. Putin cant disarm Ukraine and he has to accept that.

I suppose the third option is Ukraine and Russia just agree to keep slugging it out. In such a scenario, I 100% support SELLING them the weapons to carry on.