Quote from: Oliver the Second on October 11, 2025, 11:38:30 AM"We're taking away your citizenship because your parents were illegal aliens" - once you accept that it becomes "because your parents are jews", "because your parents are Republicans", "because you have green eyes"..

Respectfully, I disagree. But it does at least as a useful benchmark to argue from.

Consider; the left has been using this as the basis for the argument for clemency in cases of illegals, allowing them to remain in the country (and often on the taxpayer dime) because they shat out an anchor on US soil. "Think of the children" and all. Hell, I see a few on the right nodding their heads in agreement. Bleeding hearts is as bleeding hearts does and I would be lying if I claimed it was preferable to my sensibilities to advocate for ripping a child from its parents, not even if I were absolutely certain that the primary (or even sole) reason for this child's very existence was to function as a bargaining chip to force the nation to accept its parents presence on its soil and under sufferance.

And it isn't as if the sweaty "bump and grind" that produces these fresh faced young Americans has to happen on US soil either. The policy as it currently stands effectively means that any expecting mother can waddle across the Rio Grande, spread her legs and burp out a mewling cabbage patch kid (or three) and have it automatically counted as a US citizen. Welfare, voting rights (eventually), the whole kit and kaboodle.

You invoked George Orwell, I'll see your George and raise you a John Wyndham. He wrote a few allegories that apply here, principle among them being "The Midwich Cuckoos" (used as the basis for the movie "The Village of the Damned"). Another work of his that bears mentioning would be "The Chrysalids". Both serve as cautionary tales of where citizenship due to accident of birth might be leveraged against a society. The former is of particular note, given that every woman and girl capable of childbirth suddenly found themselves pregnant with children who demonstrated the unchallenged ability to enforce their collective will against the society they found themselves in, whereas the latter is an example of a group of people who were "othered" by the fundamentalist society they were born into and at risk of sterilization and banishment had they remained. It should also be noted the aforementioned fundamentalist state sent its agents after the fleeing party for the purposes of rendering "judgement" on what it considered were "blasphemies in the eye of God", something I doubt either of us would be arguing for in our current discussion, though it might strike a chord with someone like brother Lokmar.

I think I know you well enough through your posts to avoid mischaracterizing you as someone that wishes to see the US fail as a nation, I imagine you hold the constitution as sacrosanct and that this is the lynchpin of your arguments for what you interpret as what makes for its enduring and laudable traits. You don't strike me as a progtard that is hellbent on tearing it all down, so we both have that much in common at least. At the risk of belabouring an earlier made point, the US constitution has been weighed and found wanting before; that's why there exist 27 amendments to it. So making considered argument for adjusting it is far from "unprecedented". Indeed, considering that the US appears to have been invaded and systematically undermined over the better part of a century, I'd submit further amendment is necessary to guard against it being dissolved utterly in the years ahead; furthermore that due to the sheer scale of the invasion, we are not afforded the luxury of time to wrangle unduly over the minutia of such amendment.

So the problem seems clear; namely a bunch of anchor babies (explicitly the cohort where neither parent enjoyed citizenship) find themselves in possession of citizenship in a country where a substantial percentage of its citizens are arguing for a blind eye to the criminality that led to the anchor babies being born in the first place. Ideally this loophole needs be closed and serious consideration given to the annulment of existing citizenships already granted in bad faith under its rubrick.

And before you mistake this for Hitlerian tactics, I should remind you that the jews Adolph and his merry band of goose-steppers kicked out of Germany to places like Palestine (at least before the outbreak of World War 2) were largely a multi-generational group of Germans in their own right, documented as such in the 1933 census and not a bunch of alien criminals parachuted in to fuck up the German state in the wake of their little party  circa 1914-18. Oh sure, such critters existed in Germany at the time, you couldn't run a business without a DEI hire in a yamulka controlling the purse strings after the Treaty of Versailles, but the holocaust was the indiscriminate displacement and/or execution of ALL jewry, irrespective of how much tenure they enjoyed. So quite different from the suggestion I made earlier. It is also matter of record that the Third Reich were already wholly against the idea of creating a Jewish state in Palestine (ie: Israel) by the outbreak of World War 2, whereas I recognize the anchor babies have statehood of their own by their parents case, so fuck it - US citizenship would appear superfluous be extension anyway.

Quote from: Oliver the Second on October 11, 2025, 11:38:30 AMWhen the kid was born the law clearly stated the child is automatically a citizen. Was the law mistaken? Perhaps. But it was the law of the land at the time and we must honor it. Because if we don't follow the law then why do we even bother making any.

You honour it until such time as you determine that it is being used to hang you. Then you revisit it and make the necessary adjustments to loosen the chokehold about your neck. We do it with tariffs, why not with amendments to the constitution? At the end of the day your most pressing contract should be to yourself and the environment under which you operate. Charity is fine, I indulge in it myself and I applaud it in others, but when someone shows up and demands I grab my ankles and take it up the hoop because The Law demands it then we have a problem. I will look at ways to redress that problem, even should it mean I need to go to the mat and get called a nazi for defending my "inalienable god given rights". As I defend yours here, even though I find myself in opposition to some of their outgrowths. You are after all a citizen of citizens, you have free will and a brain to exercise it.

Entertaining the creation of an oppositionary force within you own country's borders is affording your opponent the vector to take your shit from you. I see that problem metastasizing and recommend immediate legal and political remedy. The expulsion of foreign state actors and undocumented economic opportunists is legally provided for, demanding citizenship for their US born progeny invites future financial/legal/political repercussions. Allowing the threat to fester outside your borders for eventual return is marginally better in the short term and you should at least enjoy some kind of check and balance at your disposal to determine if they pose a genuine threat or not. Giving them carte blanche to waltz in and out as they please just seems dumb.

And if they've no intention of returning at all, then fine. It's not like they asked to be a citizen in the first place, rescinding it won't affect them at all.

Quote from: JOE on October 11, 2025, 10:43:41 AMThis the result of overpopulation which the Republican Party is promoting or pushing.

50 years ago before some of ya like Shen Li Shen were born, the world population was less than half of what it is today.

Surprise Surprise...the world was in much better shape.

Fast forward 50 years....the population has doubled to over 8 billion. Illegal migration is just another symptom of overpopulation which should have been addressed 50 years ago when the Club of Rome was warning us about it.

I remembered that back in 1973 or 74 and nobody was listening. They just wanted to make fucking babies.

We've added more people in half a century to this planet than existed for all the prior millennia. No wonder there isn't enough to go around.

50 years ago organizations like UNICEF were pushing feed the hungry children in Africa when they should have been feeding them a cocktail of birth control instead.

Kill all liberals, problem solved!

IDGAF about the kids that were born here. We dont need to deal with that whatsoever.

Are you here illegally? GTFO. Got kids THAT WERE BORN HERE? Either take em with you or hand em over to a relative, friend, or the government. Kids not born here? GTFO!

Born citizenship is an issue for SCOTUS to revisit. We'll be deporting illegals for the rest of my life before we need to worry about next steps.

Quote from: Lokmar on October 12, 2025, 01:26:58 PMKill all liberals, problem solved!

But then who'd rein ya in if ya stepped over the line...Lokmar?!

Quote from: Biggie Smiles on October 10, 2025, 04:54:16 PMThis problem is very similar in nature to Social Security.

At what point do we change a broken system and how do we handle the problem fairly for all of those who have paid into it for decades

Myself for instance. For me social security has capped out at the maximum for the last 30 years. So at a rate of approximately 18,000.00 per year multiplied by 30, adjusted for inflation and factoring in earned interest I'd accept a pay out of 750K right now in lieu of the 5424.00 a month they are set to owe me upon retirement.

Provided a few conditions exist of course. they cannot tax that 750K payout and all payments into social security must end immediately.

Under such an arraignment I would happily take my money and go

otherwise, fuck that, I'm expecting my monthly payouts when I retire.

I think the dilemma surrounding birthright is similar. From today forward it must end but how do we properly handle previous cases justly?

I don't have an answer for that one.

I keep hearing that Social Security in the US is nearly bankrupt Biggie Smiles Bigly.


So if that's correct, there may not be any pensions waitin' fer future retirees in America eh? That's why it may be advisable for folks like my good friend Lokmar ta,retire soon eh. So he can get at least some a that pension money in yer country.

I don't have that problem myself since I've already started gettin my pension. Truth be known I don't think I put in as much as I'll be gettin out eh. Personally I plan ta live a long time. By then I'll have received far more pension money than I contributed.

Actually I'm kind of a lazy bugger but heck if the guv wants ta give it to me, I'm all for it. Free healthcare. Free this, free that.

Socialism works, eh.

Quote from: JOE on October 12, 2025, 04:02:51 PMI keep hearing that Social Security in the US is nearly bankrupt Biggie Smiles Bigly.

So if that's correct, there may not be any pensions waitin' fer future retirees in America eh? That's why it may be advisable for folks like my good friend Lokmar ta,retire soon eh. So he can get at least some a that pension money in yer country.

I don't have that problem myself since I've already started gettin my pension. Truth be known I don't think I put in as much as I'll be gettin out eh. Personally I plan ta live a long time. By then I'll have received far more pension money than I contributed.

Actually I'm kind of a lazy bugger but heck if the guv wants ta give it to me, I'm all for it. Free healthcare. Free this, free that.

Socialism works, eh.

Fuk SSI. Its a rip off and ponzi scheme thats already bankrupted because libtards gave all the money away to undesirables. 

Quote from: Lokmar on October 12, 2025, 01:35:07 PMIDGAF about the kids that were born here. We dont need to deal with that whatsoever.

Are you here illegally? GTFO. Got kids THAT WERE BORN HERE? Either take em with you or hand em over to a relative, friend, or the government.

Nah, don't codify handing them to the government into law, the whole idea of a relative taking charge of them is to keep them OFF the public dime. And you just know that should the democrats ever get back into office they'll be disappearing kids off into underaged sexual slavery, medical experiments and organ harvesting programs like the 30,000 kids that went missing under Joe Biden's watch.

Otherwise you're bang on the money. Anchor babies fortunate enough to have a US citizen for a parent who is prepared to care and nurture them get to stay. Those that don't.... "fuck off, we're full". And make it constitutionally clear bu amendment that the actual "anchor" in the arrangement needs to be a US citizen so you don't end up with a line of mexcrement tith their feet in the Rio Grande mud and their twats fanny farting potential fifth columnists into the fray. Fuck that noise, fuck them and fuck anyone that disagrees; the whole "give me your huddled masses" should not be used to undermine the 330 million stakeholders in the US that are here legally.

Quote from: Lokmar on October 12, 2025, 04:26:50 PMFuk SSI. Its a rip off and ponzi scheme thats already bankrupted because libtards gave all the money away to undesirables. 

Whatcha gonna do in retirement if tharz no pension...Lokmar?!?

I hate ta see ya without a pension...Bud!

Quote from: JOE on October 12, 2025, 04:39:55 PMWhatcha gonna do in retirement if tharz no pension...Lokmar?!?

I hate ta see ya without a pension...Bud!

I'll die before it runs out. My family doesnt see old age so thats why I'm taking my money soon.

Quote from: Lokmar on October 12, 2025, 04:43:28 PMI'll die before it runs out. My family doesnt see old age so thats why I'm taking my money soon.

Ya better, Bud.

I knowz ya had a few bouts of covid so that musta shortened yer life by at least a year or 2 ...Lokmar.

I never caught it so that should extend my life by at least 10 years or more, eh.

Long life runs in my family

Minimum 90.

I might live ta be 100 eh.

Quote from: JOE on October 12, 2025, 04:49:47 PMYa better, Bud.

I knowz ya had a few bouts of covid so that musta shortened yer life by at least a year or 2 ...Lokmar.

I never caught it so that should extend my life by at least 10 years or more, eh.

Long life runs in my family

Minimum 90.

I might live ta be 100 eh.

COVID did nothing to me because I didnt get the jab like you. The jab cut 15 years off your life.

Quote from: . on October 12, 2025, 04:36:06 PMNah, don't codify handing them to the government into law, the whole idea of a relative taking charge of them is to keep them OFF the public dime. And you just know that should the democrats ever get back into office they'll be disappearing kids off into underaged sexual slavery, medical experiments and organ harvesting programs like the 30,000 kids that went missing under Joe Biden's watch.

Otherwise you're bang on the money. Anchor babies fortunate enough to have a US citizen for a parent who is prepared to care and nurture them get to stay. Those that don't.... "fuck off, we're full". And make it constitutionally clear bu amendment that the actual "anchor" in the arrangement needs to be a US citizen so you don't end up with a line of mexcrement tith their feet in the Rio Grande mud and their twats fanny farting potential fifth columnists into the fray. Fuck that noise, fuck them and fuck anyone that disagrees; the whole "give me your huddled masses" should not be used to undermine the 330 million stakeholders in the US that are here legally.

I could be wrong but I believe the figure was twice as high.

Quote from: JOE on October 12, 2025, 03:13:05 PMBut then who'd rein ya in if ya stepped over the line...Lokmar?!

You would like Lokmar to "reign" over you wouldn't you honeybunch.

Quote from: JOE on October 12, 2025, 04:49:47 PMYa better, Bud.

I knowz ya had a few bouts of covid so that musta shortened yer life by at least a year or 2 ...Lokmar.

I never caught it so that should extend my life by at least 10 years or more, eh.

Long life runs in my family

Minimum 90.

I might live ta be 100 eh.

Sweetie, sitting is the new smoking.

As I told you after we had sex last night you have shortened your life by at least ten years by sitting down and posting on forums all day.

And you are over seventy. So, at your age and with your sedentary lifestyle you should be thankful for each day above ground.

Quote from: DKG on Today at 10:37:32 AMI could be wrong but I believe the figure was twice as high.

I've heard a few figures tossed about, all of them significant non-zero amounts. For the purposes of the argument, the actual figure is (I think) purely academic, the real issue being that the government ought not be allowed to continue the egregious practice of separating children from their parents and "forgetting" what happened to them.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". The rearing of a child is the responsibility of its parents, it is not the responsibility of the state, certainly not the responsibility of a state that has demonstrated periods of inefficiency and gross incompetence. We already pay taxes for that expression of inefficiency, sacrificing sections of the next generation to its incompetence is criminal. "Of the people, for the people" remember; the government is mandated not to own us, but to serve us.

So when Lokmar says "hand [the kids] over to a friend or relative" I am in agreement with him. When he options the government as an acceptable surrogate, then I disagree. My argument is really that simple, I've no guarantee of the government acting in the best interests of kids it did not produce; it might very well do so and doubtless at great expense to the taxpayer, it might also treat them as cattle, future democrat voters if you will. And my taxes are not paying for that, not without a fight.