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What They Don’t Tell You About Electric Vehicles

Started by Anonymous, December 27, 2020, 02:10:27 PM

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Anonymous

December 27, 2020, 02:10:27 PM
Electric cars will never fully replace internal combusion engines. Other things, like hydrogen, perhaps. But, we don't have the land, the time, the disposal space for old batteries, and the pollution that goes along with it. Finally, we'll run out of rare earth metals for e-vehicles long before we will fossil fuels.



"Fast" charging is a gift that keeps on taking up your time.

https://spectator.org/electric-vehicle-battery/?fbclid=IwAR0c9gDPOFtc2VuzbpuGvXJTnxng7T4Tbj-Ugm3kH3S5VBK27N3N6vwL9HQ">https://spectator.org/electric-vehicle- ... N3N6vwL9HQ">https://spectator.org/electric-vehicle-battery/?fbclid=IwAR0c9gDPOFtc2VuzbpuGvXJTnxng7T4Tbj-Ugm3kH3S5VBK27N3N6vwL9HQ



Would you wait 15 minutes to get a fast-food hamburger?



Electric cars will make you wait longer. This includes even those touted as being capable of receiving a "fast" charge in 15 minutes or so. Because you'll have to wait for the car plugged in ahead of you to "fast" charge.



This assumes you're second in line. If you're third ...



Well, they'll just install more places to plug in. It is not as easy as it sounds because of the problem in physics of two objects not being able to occupy the same space at the same time. To achieve the same capacity to charge as many electric cars as a gas station is capable of refueling in an hour, it would be necessary to at least quintuple the physical size of the charging station to compensate for the quintupling of the time it takes to recharge each electric vehicle (EV) versus the time it takes to refuel a non-electric car.



At a gas station, a car occupies its spot at the pump for about five minutes; thus, in 15 minutes it is possible for a single pump to refuel three cars. But if it takes 15 minutes to recharge a single EV, it would take two more places to plug in — and the space for those additional two cars — to equal the throughput capability of the gas station's single pump.



Well, they'll figure out a way to reduce recharging time so it's about the same as the time it takes to gas up a non-electric car. The problem there is that the faster you recharge a battery, the more you reduce its life — and increase the odds of a fire.



There is a reason why you trickle charge batteries — if possible.



This is usually not a problem — with lawn mower batteries, for example — because you have the time to wait. But it's a problem with electric car batteries, if you don't like to wait. Unless you don't mind risking a fire. Or reducing the useful life of the battery — which costs a great deal more to replace than a lawn mower battery.



These batteries — EV batteries — are also enormous, mainly because people expect an EV to duplicate (at least) the performance capabilities of a non-electric car. To do that requires about 1,000 pounds of batteries on average, which increases by several orders of magnitude the demand for the raw materials that go into batteries. More energy is also required to make the batteries, the materials for which are among the least renewable things on the market.



You have probably heard of "peak oil." We have been hearing about it for the past 60 years. You probably have not heard about "peak cobalt." Expect to hear about it — but probably not until after non-electric cars have been regulated off the market. The cost of electric cars is a function of the cost of cobalt — including the human cost of this unpleasant but necessary substance for EV batteries.



There's another problem, unique to things powered by electricity.



You cannot just pour in electricity, as you do with gasoline. Electricity doesn't sit ready to go in storage tanks, underneath the pumps. It has to be transmitted as demanded — via cables from the generating source — and this requires cables of much greater capacity than your household extension cord.



This is why it is not possible to "fast" charge an EV at most private homes. You can reduce the waiting time from eight or more hours but not to 15 minutes. Not without upgrading your house to commercial-grade electric capacity.



And then there's that increased risk of burning your house down.



And a word about "fast" charging — which even where feasible is only partial charging. You cannot fully "refill" a battery quickly — as you can fully refuel a non-electric car's tank.



Which means more frequent charging.



Which, in turn, compounds the throughput problem as well as the charge-capacity and fire-potential problems, when you have all those electric cars recharging in a hurry, more frequently.



And losing their capacity to be recharged more quickly — the more often they are "fast" charged.



These are basic EV facts, but most people aren't aware of them.



You are being sold on something you probably wouldn't buy, if you knew what you were buying. EV pushers want you to think you are buying something else — something that makes sense. But if that were the case, why don't they give you all the facts?



That they don't ought to give you a moment's pause.

Zetsu

#1
December 27, 2020, 03:40:10 PM
I used to like EV, but the disadvantages just scared me away.



Another way most ppl ruin a EV battery's charge capacity is fully charging it and not driving it, the problem with lithium batteries is at under full charge they get stressed up under a heavy energy load and will deteriorate the chemical compound inside.  



Another issue is during the winter heating the cabin takes up a lot of juice from the batteries, and can reduce the travel distance per full charge by 1/4 to 1/2, lol.



Not to mention they're so damn heavy for their size, which makes them horrible for off-road.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#2
December 27, 2020, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395525 time=1609101610 user_id=61
I used to like EV, but the disadvantages just scared me away.



Another way most ppl ruin a EV battery is fully charging it and not driving it, the problem with lithium batteries is at under full charge they get stressed up under a heavy energy load and will deteriorate the chemical compound inside.  



Another issue is during the winter heating the cabin takes up a lot of juice from the batteries, and can reduce the travel distance per full charge by 1/4 to 1/2, lol.



Not to mention they're so damn heavy for their size, which makes them horrible for off-road.

I didn't know that Zetsu..



I do know they're not really suited for our cold prairie climate.

Zetsu

#3
December 27, 2020, 03:48:14 PM
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.
Permanently off his rocker

Zetsu

#4
December 27, 2020, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=395528 time=1609101874 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395525 time=1609101610 user_id=61
I used to like EV, but the disadvantages just scared me away.



Another way most ppl ruin a EV battery is fully charging it and not driving it, the problem with lithium batteries is at under full charge they get stressed up under a heavy energy load and will deteriorate the chemical compound inside.  



Another issue is during the winter heating the cabin takes up a lot of juice from the batteries, and can reduce the travel distance per full charge by 1/4 to 1/2, lol.



Not to mention they're so damn heavy for their size, which makes them horrible for off-road.

I didn't know that Zetsu..



I do know they're not really suited for our cold prairie climate.


If any one have expensive gadgets like phones and ultrabook laptop, it's best not to full charge if they'll be left in storage conditions, ideal charge level would be between 30% for storage, but better to be at 50% since charge/voltage levels can drop each month, and once it reaches zero charge or the voltage reverse to negative the battery will be ruined.  This is the problem with lith batteries, can't full charge if they won't be used and never leave them fully depleted.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#5
December 27, 2020, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395529 time=1609102094 user_id=61
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.

A hybrid makes more sense than an EV.

Anonymous

#6
December 27, 2020, 07:20:32 PM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=395531 time=1609103488 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395529 time=1609102094 user_id=61
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.

A hybrid makes more sense than an EV.

There's a woman working out of my terminal that drives a Malibu hybrid. It makes no sound at low speeds.

Anonymous

#7
December 27, 2020, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: "iron horse jockey" post_id=395555 time=1609114832 user_id=2015
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=395531 time=1609103488 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395529 time=1609102094 user_id=61
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.

A hybrid makes more sense than an EV.

There's a woman working out of my terminal that drives a Malibu hybrid. It makes no sound at low speeds.

I used to own a Chevrolet Malibu..



It was a gas engline, but it was a very reliable car.

Zetsu

#8
December 27, 2020, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=395531 time=1609103488 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395529 time=1609102094 user_id=61
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.

A hybrid makes more sense than an EV.


Yea, how a hybrid works is most likely the best way to condition a lithium-ion battery.  Small charges amount each time and never reaching zero or max charge level can extend it's life beyond the average numbers.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#9
December 28, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395579 time=1609120222 user_id=61
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=395531 time=1609103488 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=395529 time=1609102094 user_id=61
Honestly the only good reason to purchase an EV is if people plan to use it for short travels to places like the local supermarket, due to ICEs don't do too well traveling less than 10km or turning off the engine before it reaches their optimal operating temperatures.

A hybrid makes more sense than an EV.


Yea, how a hybrid works is most likely the best way to condition a lithium-ion battery.  Small charges amount each time and never reaching zero or max charge level can extend it's life beyond the average numbers.

This is helpful information Zetsu.

Anonymous

#10
February 10, 2021, 07:48:29 PM
This comes from the hemp lobby. But, how is lithium mining to produce batteries superior to abundant natural gas.



The Spiraling Environmental Costs of Lithium Batteries Could Rival Fossil Fuel

https://returntonow.net/2021/02/09/the-spiraling-environmental-costs-of-lithium-batteries-could-rival-fossil-fuel/">https://returntonow.net/2021/02/09/the- ... ssil-fuel/">https://returntonow.net/2021/02/09/the-spiraling-environmental-costs-of-lithium-batteries-could-rival-fossil-fuel/



As we move into the era of "renewable" electricity, let us remember that the minerals used to make the batteries, used to store that electricity, are not renewable... or recyclable.



And the number of batteries we are going to need to meet the electricity needs of 8 billion people (16 billion in 50 years or so at the current population doubling rate) is enormous.



Every electric car battery requires around 25 pounds of lithium. And renewable energy grid storage systems for our homes and workplaces will require much more. Every smartphone, tablet, laptop and other battery powered device is also reliant on the "white gold."



"Demand for lithium is increasing exponentially," Wired reports. It doubled between 2016 and 2018, and is expected to be 8 times higher by 2027.



And lithium "renews" itself just about as fast as fossil fuel.



Not only is lithium not an infinite resource, the process of extracting and "refining" it is wreaking havoc on the environment, not so unlike that caused by extracting and refining petroleum.



In Tibet, it is becoming commonplace to see masses of dead fish, yaks and cows floating downstream of a lithium mine on the Liqi River.



In Chile, a lithium mine in Salar de Atacama consumes 65% of the regional water supply in an area where many already had to get water driven in. Local quinoa and llama farmers are suffering.



And there's always the potential for toxic chemicals to leak from the lithium evaporation pools into the local drinking water supply.



Those chemicals include hydrochloric acid used to process lithium and heavy metals filtered out of the brine. Research in Nevada found impacts on fish as far as 150 miles downstream from a lithium processing operation.



And, although it's the most abundant, lithium isn't even the most problematic ingredient of lithium ion batteries.



Cobalt and nickel are quickly becoming the new "blood diamonds" of the Democratic Republic of Congo. Both are extremely toxic when pulled from the ground, often using child labor without protective equipment.



And, to top it all off, lithium-ion batteries are not recyclable, leaving their toxic contents to leach into landfills and ground water.



Sunshine, wind and water may be renewable resources, but without renewable materials to store the electricity they generate, we'll eventually run out of lithium, the same way we are running out fossil fuel.

Zetsu

#11
February 10, 2021, 08:25:02 PM
I almost forgot another con about EVs is they weight like 40% more heavy than ICE based on the same size and are really bad for towing due to they can't make use of a transmission.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#12
February 10, 2021, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=401488 time=1613006702 user_id=61
I almost forgot another con about EVs is they weight like 40% more heavy than ICE based on the same size and are really bad for towing due to they can't make use of a transmission.

They have PRNDL, don't they?

Zetsu

#13
February 10, 2021, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=401491 time=1613007283 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=401488 time=1613006702 user_id=61
I almost forgot another con about EVs is they weight like 40% more heavy than ICE based on the same size and are really bad for towing due to they can't make use of a transmission.

They have PRNDL, don't they?


I don't think they have such thing as a L gear since they have no transmission, the motor is just control electronically I assume like hobby RC cars, lol.
Permanently off his rocker

Anonymous

#14
February 10, 2021, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=401492 time=1613007556 user_id=61
Quote from: Fashionista post_id=401491 time=1613007283 user_id=3254
Quote from: Zetsu post_id=401488 time=1613006702 user_id=61
I almost forgot another con about EVs is they weight like 40% more heavy than ICE based on the same size and are really bad for towing due to they can't make use of a transmission.

They have PRNDL, don't they?


I don't think they have such thing as a L gear since they have no transmission, the motor is just control electronically I assume like hobby RC cars, lol.

 :ohmy:
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