Quote from: . on June 08, 2025, 03:22:23 AMAnd before you tell me, yes I am aware that a sideways drilling operation would be horrendously ineffective. Just as I am sure that you are aware that the window of opportunity to exploit this resource for the benefit of Albertans is necessarily subject to its own use-by date. After all, nothing lasts forever, not even a promise from the Orange One.

Make us both happy Herman. Get Alberta out of Canada while the getting is good.

I read the premier of Alberta recognizes that too which is why she wants to build the province's sovereign wealth fund while the sun shines.

Quote from: DKG on June 08, 2025, 10:18:50 AMI read the premier of Alberta recognizes that too which is why she wants to build the province's sovereign wealth fund while the sun shines.

Then let's see her prove that with Alberta's exit from its obligations to Canada. Forgive my cynicism, I'm too used to political figures making all the right noises and doing buttfuck nothing to back it up with concrete action. Sovereign wealth is a hard enough thing to build when you aren't afforded the free and unfettered ability to create the wealth you know you might realise and any progress that you do make gets taxed by equalization payments.

There's limited options that can address that and they all start with independence from Canada.

Quote from: . on June 09, 2025, 08:31:03 AMThen let's see her prove that with Alberta's exit from its obligations to Canada. Forgive my cynicism, I'm too used to political figures making all the right noises and doing buttfuck nothing to back it up with concrete action. Sovereign wealth is a hard enough thing to build when you aren't afforded the free and unfettered ability to create the wealth you know you might realise and any progress that you do make gets taxed by equalization payments.

There's limited options that can address that and they all start with independence from Canada.

It's not Alberta's obligations to Canada that are unlikely to be met in the unlikely event that they get a fifty percent plus one yes vote in a referendum. It is Canada's obligations to the oversized contribution that province has made to Canada.

She has done a lot to protect her province from the economic warfare of the federal Liberals. So has Scott Moe of Saskatchewan.

Quote from: DKG on June 09, 2025, 10:28:50 AMIt's not Alberta's obligations to Canada that are unlikely to be met in the unlikely event that they get a fifty percent plus one yes vote in a referendum. It is Canada's obligations to the oversized contribution that province has made to Canada.

You are missing my point; the oversized (and ongoing) contributions are the obligations I am referring to. Alberta's premier can best show her commitment to building Alberta's sovereign wealth by terminating said contributions, something that is only assured through independence or (don't laugh) through the generosity of Ottawa's consideration.

The latter I'm sure you will agree is a pipe dream. That leaves us with the former. The longer Alberta remains yoked to those equalization payments, the longer they will put a drain on any attempt to build sovereign wealth. Ergo, any dragging of the feet or capitulation on the path to independence is working counter to efforts to build said sovereign wealth, every bit as surely as the termination of infrastructure development works to get your product out of the ground and into the international market.

I am getting the impression of feet being dragged on this issue. The premier of Alberta is at liberty to prove me wrong and I sincerely hope she does, but flowery Words and assurances of her past record will not do it. Expedited results will. Alberta and your province of Saskatchewan need concrete and tangible movement towards their independence, not a bunch of press releases of "we're gunna do this thing".

With all respect my friend, defending their character to me or anyone else on this forum achieves nothing. I certainly cannot magic away the drain on your province's coffers any more than I can wave my dick at Shen-Li's stock portfolio and have it suddenly be expressed in US dollars. You can however continue to provide incentive to your premier to get things done to that end and get all the louder and more raucous about it at the first hint of them putting a foot wrong. Which I strongly urge you do, even should it mean marshalling convoys of disgruntled voters to converge on parliament and make your voices heard if need be.

Everyone has their price, your elected representatives are no exception. Leave them as little wriggle room to be bought as you can.

She has done a lot to protect her province from the economic warfare of the federal Liberals. So has Scott Moe of Saskatchewan.
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QuoteYou are missing my point; the oversized (and ongoing) contributions are the obligations I am referring to. Alberta's premier can best show her commitment to building Alberta's sovereign wealth by terminating said contributions, something that is only assured through independence or (don't laugh) through the generosity of Ottawa's consideration.

I thought you were referring to Alberta's share of the national debt if they leave Canada.

First of all, I do not live in either prairie province. I am a sympathetic Central Canadian. The two prairie provinces contribute so much to confederation and Ottawa continues to bite the hand that feeds them.

I want both provinces to stay in Canada, but the status quo is unacceptable. Alberta held a referendum on changing equalization that passed with something like sixty two percent of the vote. The Trudeau government ignored the results.

I like Premiers Smith and Moe's third way option that protects provincial jurisdiction and creates provincial alternatives to the RCMP, CPP, CRA, immigration like Quebec has. But, I expect the Carney government will stand in the way of that.

So, it is most likely status quo or independence. And neither premier supports independence. The ball is in Carney's court. His actions will decide if independence referendums receive the magical fifty percent plus one. I have no faith in any Liberal to do anything in the national interest.

Quote from: DKG on June 10, 2025, 10:29:38 AMI thought you were referring to Alberta's share of the national debt if they leave Canada.

First of all, I do not live in either prairie province. I am a sympathetic Central Canadian.

My mistake, I batted that one out thinking I was talking to Herman, he's started quite a few threads regarding this of late.

Re: the debt - a less than charitable prick (ie: me) would weigh that against the blood money those two provinces that already probbed up Quebec with, perhaps pointing out that forbidding development of key parts (like pipelines) ought be levied against national debt. Yeah, Ottawa would cry foul and the correct response should be "haha, fuck off you cunt".

But that's not going to happen now, eh?

Quote from: DKG on June 10, 2025, 10:29:38 AMI want both provinces to stay in Canada, but the status quo is unacceptable. Alberta held a referendum on changing equalization that passed with something like sixty two percent of the vote. The Trudeau government ignored the results.

I like Premiers Smith and Moe's third way option that protects provincial jurisdiction and creates provincial alternatives to the RCMP, CPP, CRA </snip>

In other words "ignoring the public's will". Just like Trudeau did. This is no different; a large whack of the population want out, their "representatives" are instead looking to boilerplate on more regulations to the already existing red tape that doesn't work and the citizenry want out from beneath, Something they can point to and say "we fixed everything" when really all they did was kick the can further down the road in the name of representing the interests of someone other than the public they are supposed to be doing the will of.

And should Canada's ruling elites find themselves find themselves as popular as a wet fart in a spacesuit because of it, then no matter. They can simply install someone new at the last minute who will promise to deliver what the last guy failed to and we can watch it all fall apart in the first month a-la Carney.

It rather seems like the skepticism I maintain is well founded, eh? This is the exact same kind of bullshit that played out in the UK's bid for economic and legislative autonomy, resulting in an "independence" where Europe is still shoveling "refugees" in by the boatload to loot and to burn, to rape and to pillage. All at the Britisher's expense and may the cops kick your door in and fuck you up if you complain about it.

It is futile to the point of insanity to even hope for a different outcome without tacit and tangible support from someone to get the job done. Which you are telling me SK and AB do not enjoy in the state and which I seriously doubt exists in the public. Oh they say they want independence, some may even believe it in their widdle heartie-poos, but few (if any) have the stomach for the fight and are instead pinning their hopes on champions who are looking to weasel their way out of it.

Quote from: DKG on June 10, 2025, 10:29:38 AMSo, it is most likely status quo or independence. And neither premier supports independence. The ball is in Carney's court. His actions will decide if independence referendums receive the magical fifty percent plus one. I have no faith in any Liberal to do anything in the national interest.

Nor I in any Canadian, it's why I got the fuck out of the country five years ago. Carney finds himself on a good wicket, one where he can negotiate directly with two premiers who according to you are both receptive and willing to defuse the independence movement. Newsflash matey; Canada as a nation is failing, Alberta and Saskatchewan are the parachutes that are expected to slow the inevitable Fail. They can and will continue to be exploited to this end for as long as the fight keeps getting palmed off to people that shuffle up to the table of public sentiment and say "ooooo, look at this shiney we've got".

Much better that AB and SK cut all ties with Ottawa forthwith and let it careen off the cliff than to be dragged down along with it. All the while wailing "we're with you Unkie Trump, saaaaave us" as you're all chasing the lie of a better future from an establishment that has consistently failed to provide for generation after generation.

But hey, what do I know, right? The average Albertan might just be masochistic enough that they enjoy the status quo. Gives them something to moan about while they're being sodomized like prison bitches. It's certainly in the rest of Canada's interest that things continue the way they are.

I am curious what support there is for independence vs some new arrangement vs status quo. My guess is that status quo would win because of Redmonton. Some new federal arrangement would be the least popular option.

That's just my opinion. Besides, I don't live in Canada anymore and I'm just a Chink.

Quote from: Shen Li on June 10, 2025, 10:18:07 PMI am curious what support there is for independence vs some new arrangement vs status quo. My guess is that status quo would win because of Redmonton. Some new federal arrangement would be the least popular option.

That's just my opinion. Besides, I don't live in Canada anymore and I'm just a Chink.

Population centers traditionally lean left. I think you'll find the most pro-secessionist voices are to be found among those who are actually ON the prairies, not holed up in suburban enclaves.

Quote from: . on Today at 09:47:32 AMPopulation centers traditionally lean left. I think you'll find the most pro-secessionist voices are to be found among those who are actually ON the prairies, not holed up in suburban enclaves.

I read that in rural areas of Alberta and Saskatchewan there is majority support for secession.