How many days,weeks, months before a war with Russia happens?

[Odinson]

I´m more concerned about the west turning into an Islamic hellhole.



With gender transitioning kids thrown into the mix.

I don't see the connection between the them?

The general point is that the west has been infiltrated by the enemy culture already.



And there is cultural decay going on.





Putin is a patriot and he defends Russian culture.

[Odinson]

NATO is for pussies.

 Are you calling Finland a pussy?  

Here is the official Finnish state policy.



https://c.tenor.com/_zAyTl7sRQMAAAAC/come-at-me-bro-told-you.gif">

[Anonymous]

 "Many Russians see Nato as a vestige of the cold war, inherently directed against their country. They point out that they have disbanded the Warsaw Pact, their military alliance, and ask why the west should not do the same." It was an excellent question, and neither the Clinton administration nor its successors provided even a remotely convincing answer.

I keep meaning to address this point.



Neither the Soviet Union, nor its bastard child Russia "disbanded" the Warsaw Pact.



The members of this pact were the Soviet Union, Poland, Hungary, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Romania. If memory serves Yugoslavia was an "ally" but Marshall Tito resisted being a full member.



All of these countries separated from the alliance with the Soviet Union when the Soviet bloc collapsed. The Warsaw Pact ceased to exist.



Russia found itself without "allies" (a better word is puppets) that served no other purpose but to act as a buffer between the Soviet Union and the Western nations. They did not disband it. The other nations walked away by their own choice. It is worth remembering that the Soviet Union invaded two of these countries when they sought to free themselves from Moscow's shackles. The Soviets, aka Russia, was never timid in rolling tanks into other countries to get them to comply.



The collapse of the Warsaw Pact was never a generous gesture of peace and goodwill from Russia. There was no acceptance that the end of that alliance would imply that NATO should pack up and go home.



Whilst I'm sure all members here are experts on NATO's relationship with the West, but it just MIGHT be possible that NATO knows more about the nature of Russian politicians than we do. Putin was a KGB operative. You do not become a member of the KGB's officer ranks without demonstrating an element of barbarity and slavish loyalty to the flag.



Would anyone in this forum trust a Russian politician?

The Warsaw Pact was formed to defend and advance an ideology that no longer exists. NATO was formed counter the advance of an ideology that no longer exists.

[Oliver Clotheshoffe]

[/b]



Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday on CBS's "Face The Nation" that the United States has given the "green light" to NATO countries who have wanted to provide fighter jets to Ukraine.



Russia has warned countries offering airfields to Ukraine would be entering the ongoing conflict.



Partial transcript as follows:



    MARGARET BRENNAN: NATO has said none of its 30 members are willing to set up a no-fly zone. President Biden has been very clear. He has no interest in that or combat troops. But what more can the United States do here? If, for instance, the Polish government, a NATO member wants to send fighter jets, does that get a green light from the U.S.? Or you were afraid that that will escalate tension?



    BLINKEN: No, that- that gets a green light. In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to back fill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to to the Ukrainians. What could we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they're handing over to- to the Ukrainians? We're in very active discussions with them about that. Look, I've been in Europe for the last couple of days working closely as always with our allies and partners at NATO, the European Union, the G7 countries, and all of us together are continuing to take steps to increase the pressure on Russia through additional sanctions, all of which are very actively under discussion and will be implemented in the in the coming days, as well as taking further steps to give the Ukrainians what they need to defend themselves against the Russian aggression.



https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/03/06/blinken-nato-countries-have-green-light-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine/">https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/03 ... o-ukraine/">https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/03/06/blinken-nato-countries-have-green-light-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine/

[Anonymous]

Jesus H, here we go.

[Bricktop]

The Warsaw Pact was formed to defend and advance an ideology that no longer exists. NATO was formed counter the advance of an ideology that no longer exists.

So, if I understand you correctly, because Russia abandoned a flawed ideology, it now renders them a gentle and gregarious member of Europe?



What actions of Russia do you rely on to make that claim?



It still harbours and maintains a massive nuclear stockpile. Is that what you'd expect of a good and friendly neighbour?



If NATO did not exist, do you believe the Baltic states would have remained outside Russian control? Or any of the former Warsaw pact nations?



NATO was formed as an alliance to preserve peace in Europe and to stand against rogue nations that would drag all of Europe into another major war. This is their raison d'etre, so to speak.



"Security in our daily lives is key to our well-being. NATO's purpose is to guarantee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.



POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult and cooperate on defence and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.



MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military power to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under the collective defence clause of NATO's founding treaty - Article 5 of the Washington Treaty or under a United Nations mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organisations."



No mention of communism.



I get it. I see the world as Russia might see it. But to then excuse Russia by this logic from its unprovoked and unnecessary attack on a small and less able nation is irrational. Killing people when there was no justification cannot be condoned.



Russia apologists seem to be akin to "white guilt" warriors. "We've behaved badly in the past, so all this violence against us and our friends must be OK".



Did NATO's existence provoke Russia. Or would Russia have invaded earlier if NATO did not exist.

[Frood]

NATO provoked...



End of.

[Bricktop]

As you know, I've accepted that NATO has not helped this situation.



But it is worth considering what Russia's conduct would have been without NATO.



If I were as sharp and articulate as Russell, this is how I would express my views with greater clarity.

[Frood]

As you know, I've accepted that NATO has not helped this situation.



But it is worth considering what Russia's conduct would have been without NATO.



If I were as sharp and articulate as Russell, this is how I would express my views with greater clarity.

[Bricktop]

So, given we cannot predict what Russia's conduct would be, but history tells us they aren't bashful in sending in the tanks, would you thus stand down your army and HOPE Russia will behave? Big risk.



Nonetheless, I think we agree that the solution to this fiasco is alarmingly simple. NATO agrees to cease expanding towards Russia, Russia agrees to honour Ukraine's sovereignty.

[Frood]

So, given we cannot predict what Russia's conduct would be, but history tells us they aren't bashful in sending in the tanks, would you thus stand down your army and HOPE Russia will behave? Big risk.



Nonetheless, I think we agree that the solution to this fiasco is alarmingly simple. NATO agrees to cease expanding towards Russia, Russia agrees to honour Ukraine's sovereignty.

A win for Russia but not for our West....

[Odinson]

The fact that they aint using all their firepower, has turned the war into oldskool infantry slogging.

[Bricktop]

A win for Russia but not for our West....

Nobody wins in war.



However, the West can claim they have secured Ukraine's security and sovereignty.



That's a fair result, seeing as how Russia has lost lives and military hardware.

[Anonymous]

 NATO agrees to cease expanding towards Russia, Russia agrees to honour Ukraine's sovereignty.

Yep.

[Anonymous]

So, if I understand you correctly, because Russia abandoned a flawed ideology, it now renders them a gentle and gregarious member of Europe?



What actions of Russia do you rely on to make that claim?



It still harbours and maintains a massive nuclear stockpile. Is that what you'd expect of a good and friendly neighbour?



If NATO did not exist, do you believe the Baltic states would have remained outside Russian control? Or any of the former Warsaw pact nations?



NATO was formed as an alliance to preserve peace in Europe and to stand against rogue nations that would drag all of Europe into another major war. This is their raison d'etre, so to speak.



"Security in our daily lives is key to our well-being. NATO's purpose is to guarantee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.



POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult and cooperate on defence and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.



MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military power to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under the collective defence clause of NATO's founding treaty - Article 5 of the Washington Treaty or under a United Nations mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organisations."



No mention of communism.



I get it. I see the world as Russia might see it. But to then excuse Russia by this logic from its unprovoked and unnecessary attack on a small and less able nation is irrational. Killing people when there was no justification cannot be condoned.



Russia apologists seem to be akin to "white guilt" warriors. "We've behaved badly in the past, so all this violence against us and our friends must be OK".



Did NATO's existence provoke Russia. Or would Russia have invaded earlier if NATO did not exist.

Russia disbanded it's empire. Yugoslavia did too. That was not enough for the US though was it. NATO exists today because the military-industrial complex in the US has a lot of power over Washington. Trump tried to change that and Biden changed it back. He also deliberately caused the invasion of Ukraine.



Dissolve NATO. It has caused several wars in the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.