Should I pack this in bear country?

[kiebers]

I'm kinda surprised that a bit savvy gun person would not know that obvious item

Renee is the ONLY one here that is even somewhat certified to debate with me...

Not necessarily...just sayin

[Angry White Male]

Not necessarily...just sayin

Well, I question the knowledge of some posters.



To be honest, any modern shotgun with modern chokes can throw a slug...  Even Full chokes can throw a slug generally without harm, although I wouldn't do it.  There's a reason slugs have 'rifling' cast into them...  They're not to impart any spin on the slug, as slugs don't spin.  They are simply designed to compress even when going through a full choke.



Renee should know this, and should also know that I know enough to know that often Improved Cylinder is usually recommended for slugs.



Renee should also know that .45-70 doesn't really excel at anything in particular...  If I truly wanted a large game round, .375 H&H would be the go-to round.



Now prove me wrong!  Renee is just stuck in the past, and unwilling to modernize her thought patterns.  It's not the old West anymore, Renee!  Cowboys aren't casting their .38's over the camp fire anymore!

[Bricktop]

Relax, Mel.



Renee has priors for opening her cavernous yap without having all the facts.

[Anonymous]

Mel's world  

And you and I get to be a small part of it.

 

[Angry White Male]

I don't mind Renee.  If it wasn't for my odd gun thread, it seems that she wouldn't post here at all!

[Bricktop]

You got that right.



She has reasons to stay away.

[Renee]

By the way, have you ever fired slugs thru that bird gun? Do you know where they go at any given yardage? Don't  assume just because you have a improved cylinder choke that it's going to shoot straight. Also better check if the Browning choke tubes are okay to fire slugs or buck shot. Some choke systems say it's  not advisable. I'm not sure where Browning stands on that.

Browning says Improved Cylinder is choice for slugs, as do most other shotgun manufacturers...  And lead buckshot can be fired through any modern choke.  Steel may be a different story, but Browning modern chokes are made for steel also.  Come on Renee, get with the program...  It's clear to me that you haven't brushed up on shot-gun etiquette for quite some time.  No fox hunt for you!  You can slum with the bums, while I enjoy tea-time with royalty after the fox hunt, ya bum!



I/C or Cylinder is A-OK for slugs.  And of COURSE it won't be mega-accurate at longer ranges!  That's not what they were designed for!



Remember I'm talking about close-range defense, and not long-range hunting abilities!

Okay dumbass. You asked for it....



It's quite clear that you have very little clue as to what you are talking about. You have circle jerked this discussion no end and you have mouthed off like a fool as usual. You have no clue about the sectional density of bullets nor do you understand terminal performance or wound cavity science. Furthermore you like to go off on tangents comparing rounds mpre suitable for hunting at range and rounds more suitable for close quarters encounters, which is irrelevant to the discussion. Also it's obvious that you have no clue as to were your pump gun throws a slug regardless of the diameter choke tube you have in it. Have you ever sighted the damn thing in? And I dont mean punching holes in a cat carrier from 10 feet away.



The 45-70 govt. or better yet, the .450 marlin, are proven close quarters grizzly stoppers. They generally come in a handy package and are hard hitting, large frontal mass bullets with decent sectional density, designed to give adequate penetration to stop a charging bear. As I've said before, your choice of a 12 gauge, rifled, soft, foster style slug is inferior by comparison and only a fool would argue otherwise. But true to form you step right up....



 I also find it laughable that you disparage the 45-70 based on its age while extolling the virtues of the .375 Holland and Holland, when any firearms aficionado knows that the 375 H&H is also and old bastard of a cartridge, introduced in 1912 as a tea bagger, cordite based round... Your ignorance as it pretains to the subject is showing once again. While a medium sized belted mag like the 375 H&H is an excellent hunting round for dangerous game, it generally does not come in a rifle that lends itself to close encounters, unless you are talking a very, very expensive SxS double rifle. It is also outclassed by newer rounds such as the .375 Ackly improved, both the .300 and .338 Weatherby mag, .300 Rem. Ultra mag, or even the venerable 416 rigby along with it's nasty, barrel eating, Lapua offspring. I'm not even going to get into the fact that in an emergency bear encounter, a neophyte like you would probably fumble fuck a heavy recoiling bolt action chambered in 375 H&H or the like, and end up on the bears dinner table.



That brings me to the the issue of you carrying a firearm  for any kind of self defense against 4 legged or even 2 legged predators.... I dont advise it. You admittedly have never hunted. Other than drowning yourself a large bottle of bottom shelf vodka, you probably have no real experience with life threatening situations. You probably don't understand or can even recognize the value of proper bullet placement. Do you even know the recommended point of impact you should aim for on a charging bear or the lethal logic behind it?...Probably not. You probably dont have the stones to do it anyway.



That is why I'm going to change my POV on this and sincerely recommend pepper spray as a bear repellent. It's fast and easy enough to use, even for a half smoked up alky like you. Furthermore, there is mounting a d very persuasive field evidence suggesting that the outcome of the use of pepper spray on an angry bear has greater success than the use of a firearm of any kind. Especially when said firearm is in the hands of a novice like you.



Furthermore, I hate to be disrespectful and bust your bubble, but let's YOU be serious for once. You aren't going hiking in bear country or any terrain rougher than the local dive bar in Langley...The chances of anyone seeing you and that red face of yours, huffing and puffing your way through the brush, sporting a full pack while humping that 5 dollar Walmart pump gun are slim to none. So let's just cut the bullshit, shall we?

[Bricktop]

Bitch just can't stay away...

[Frood]

Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.

[Bricktop]

Nah, she's just another gun nut who analyses and studies everything and anything to do with killing machines.



That, and she pokes her pug nose into other people's private affairs.

[Anonymous]

Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.

Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..



She learned everything about them.

[kiebers]

Not to mention the thousands of rounds she has fired in competitions. I doubt anyone here could even come close to matching her expertise/accuracy with a firearm. I couldn't, and I grew up on a range myself. Well except for perhaps one bench target rifle I have...

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the thousands of rounds she has fired in competitions. I doubt anyone here could even come close to matching her expertise/accuracy with a firearm. I couldn't, and I grew up on a range myself. Well except for perhaps one bench target rifle I have...

I miss her too.  Besides being a huge firearms resource, she's big fun to have because you never know when she'll come outta the woodwork and go bitch on someone.  Always entertaining even if it's you.

[kiebers]

Not to mention the thousands of rounds she has fired in competitions. I doubt anyone here could even come close to matching her expertise/accuracy with a firearm. I couldn't, and I grew up on a range myself. Well except for perhaps one bench target rifle I have...

I miss her too.  Besides being a huge firearms resource, she's big fun to have because you never know when she'll come outta the woodwork and go bitch on someone.  Always entertaining even if it's you.

So true. LOL

[Renee]

Renee seems quite knowledgeable or well read on firearms and ammunition. I wonder if she has a lot of brothers or works in the firearm industry or related field.

Her father is a retired policeman and she grew up around firearms..



She learned everything about them.

My dad is also an avid hunter, competition shooter and outdoor sportsman. Even at age 67 he is still out there beginning in early fall, straight through winter. Wild game was a staple on our families dinner table while I was growing up. My dad was also a police firearms instructor for about 5 different municipalities as well. I wouldn't even try and count the number of firearms, gear and firearms accessories he owns or has owned in his lifetime. Unlike some who run their rancid, authoritarian, mealy mouths around here, he believes that personal self defense and preparedness is the best first line when it comes to staying alive in a life threatening situation. He instilled that concept in me and my sibs at a very young age and I'm thankful for it.



I've also hunted since I was a teen and competed in NRA prescison pistol shooting since I was a preteen. I've spent countless hours of range time sending hundreds of thousands of rounds down range competing in and preparing for IDPA competition. I'm an experienced hand loader...I think I have more than a fair grasp of load performance and ballistics.



For many years I was a certified NRA coach but pressures of family life have caused me to let that certification lapse. I have full intention of reviving that certification in the future. I have also been a range officer at one of the local ranges I belong to as well.



I'm a ccw holder and have attended dozens of seminars hosted by police depts, gun clubs and independent legal experts covering the legal responsibilities surrounding the ownership, carry and use of firearms for personal protection. I usually attend at least one seminar a year just to stay current with the law. Unfortunately due to the onerous legal ramifications of concealed carry in my state, I very rarely have a firearm on my person.



If anyone here knows more than me in regard to firearms, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion and impart some knowledge. I welcome it. Firearms and their use are one of my favorite subjects. BUT what I will not engage in is hysterical pointless political arguments extolling the virtues of turning law abiding citizens into criminals through toltalitarian gun control scams. I have nothing but contempt for hoplophobic fools who soak their already overloaded adult diapers with piss or spew foam all over their keyboards, each time a gun related incident is mentioned.