At Least 50 Dead In Gay Nightclub Attack in Orlando By Muslim Gunman

[RW]

There are these pesky things called statistics that say more gun owners fall victim to their own firearms than are used successfully for defense.



Isn't that weird?

Nope...can't cure stupid....

No but you can try to control it.

[RW]

Having a weapon to go hunting makes sense.  You're procuring food.  It's done generally with a gun designed to shoot animals unlike handguns which are designed to shoot humans.



As for shooting for entertainment, there's a great number of other things you could do if you weren't able to unload a clip on a target.  Am I right?

Sure, but I have and do go to the range and I enjoy it and you can call it nitpicking if you want but I don't unload a clip at a target. I load and shoot one bullet at a time. I agree there should be stricter controls on who is allowed to purchase a weapon. But why has it become so glorified to own military style weapons? I am not awestruck by them but it seems so many are.

Controls on who can purchase and what can be purchased would be a SMART start in the right direction.  



Is it true that private sales and gun show purchases don't require background checks?

[kiebers]

Private sales don't and if the guns have never been registered there is no way to police it. Some of the gun shows are doing it now but all background checks need to be more in depth than they are doing obviously. But still, where is the infatuation for military style weapons coming from?

[RW]

Private sales don't and if the guns have never been registered there is no way to police it. Some of the gun shows are doing it now but all background checks need to be more in depth than they are doing obviously. But still, where is the infatuation for military style weapons coming from?

Hollywood?

[kiebers]

I think so...and video games. And lack of common sense supervision of those.

[kiebers]

And when you throw in social media it's a whole new ballgame.

[RW]

I think so...and video games. And lack of common sense supervision of those.

And the attitude that guns are toys and to be used for entertainment...

[JOE]

Private sales don't and if the guns have never been registered there is no way to police it. Some of the gun shows are doing it now but all background checks need to be more in depth than they are doing obviously. But still, where is the infatuation for military style weapons coming from?

....well private sales should be tracked in the US, K.

Geez no wonder your country has so many problems with guns.

There's no accountability.



In Canada, private gun sales are tracked, the provinces have no say in the matter and the RCMP (essentially the equivalent of your FBI)  monitors them:



http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htm">http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-f ... re-eng.htm">http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htm



Plus the transferee needs a permit.



You people are way behind much of the civilized world when it comes to gun registration & safety, K. Time for the USA to catch up with the rest of the world.

[RW]

Imagine the whining in the US if the federal government made such requirements.

[Renee]

Why do you own a gun Renee?  Is it to protect yourself and your family Renee?

Because I enjoy shooting sports. I can appreciate the beauty of a finely made weapon and I like to think that in a case of a life or death emergency, I can at least protect myself and family members from harm or death. That mind set was taught to me by more than one police officer and it makes sense to me. I think I'll take their reasoning over anything someone less qualified has to offer.



And above all, it's my right granted under the US Constitution to own a weapon.



BTW, why don't you go ahead and ask me why I own a shovel as well?....

No matter how you try to twist it, hand gun ownership in the US is generally used to "defend and protect".  Statistically speaking, you'll never use your gun for that purpose but you have one nonetheless.  Why?  Fear.



You sit there throwing shit at the wall while making the point that the "anti-gun" lobby uses fear to disarm America when you are armed out of fear.  The difference is, what does the "anti-gun" lobby benefit from your fear vs the "pro-gun" lobby benefit?  I don't need any source to help follow the obvious money trail.



I know why you own a shovel.  I know what a shovel is used for just as I know what a handgun is used for.  I also know why you, and so many others own one.  You can play word games as much as you like but the paranoia is still palpitable.  With that fear comes the increased risk of victimization.  Why are you okay with that is beyond me.

Let me explain something to you which you are obviously ignorant of....in the US the police are under no obligation to protect you. In Warren v. The District of Columbia the  District of Columbia Court of Appeals ruled that the police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens based on the public duty doctrine.The SCOTUS has confirmed in Castle Rock v. Gonzales that the police cannot be held liable for the consequences of not reacting to a call of distress, even when there is a threat of bodily harm. Since early 1980s there have been 10 court cases that have handed down similar rulings.



That sends a very clear message to those with half a brain. The message is that YOU and you alone are responsible for your own protection and defense of your family. I would be remiss as a parent and negligent as an individual if I didn't take that seriously. That means I will use everything in my power that I am comfortable and competent with to defend my life and lives of my loved ones and that means the use of a firearm if necessary.



I was taught that mindset by someone a lot more knowledgeable than you are on this subject. To claim that I have a gun in my possession because I'm afraid or paranoid is the same as saying that I'm paranoid because I have a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors in my home. Under the legal circumstances, I am stunned that you see it In the way that you do.



Oh and don't think I don't see who's homophobic hand is in the idea that firearms ownership is based in fear.  



As for your unadulterated bullshit about following the money trail.....do you think the anti-gun organizations operate on promises and rainbows? Why don't follow their money trail and see who benefits from their success. Most of their money comes from slimbags like George Soros and Michael Bloomberg and other leftwing entities. Hypocrites who hide behind armed body guards and live in gated secure mansions; who are in it for their own nanny state reasons of social engineering and political influence. Regardless of what the media wants you to believe, most of the money going to the various pro-gun organizations comes from donations at the grassroots level from everyday people who are concerned about their rights being infringed by the government. There in lies the real difference between the opposing forces

[RW]

Again Renee, are you aware that statistically speaking, your family has a greater chance of falling victim to any firearms you possess than them being used for defense?  I take the safety and security of my family just as seriously yet I don't own a gun.  Why?  Because I don't want to bring WEAPONS into my home that INCREASE their chance of victimization.



I do see it as fear and paranoia because THAT'S WHY YOU OWN A FUCKING GUN.



I don't need the media to tell me a damn thing Renee.  They just flash body bags and grieving loved ones and I get the message loud and clear.  What if it was your child shot up at school or in a nightclub?  Would you feel differently about guns then?  I bet you would.



I also read the second amendment and it talks about bearing arms for the purposes of establishing a militia should the government get out of line.  What it doesn't say is you have the right to sleep with a cold piece of steel under your pillow at night because you're fucking scared of the boogeyman.

[smell the glove]

As for what Mel is saying.....he is pretty much correct

Of course I am!

[smell the glove]

In Canada, private gun sales are tracked, the provinces have no say in the matter and the RCMP (essentially the equivalent of your FBI)  monitors them:

Only with restricted/prohibited forearms, which are generally handguns.



Joe, Harper nixed the long-gun registry...  There is no longer a requirement in Canada to track any sales for long guns...  If I have a long-gun, and want to sell it to you, my only obligation is to view your Firearms License, just to make sure you have one.  This is from a legal threshold, but it should be done by any firearm seller.



And then?  The gun is yours...  Right then, right there, and right now.  There is no paperwork, buddy!

[smell the glove]

People that don't know shit, should stop posting in a thread, commenting on a subject that they know nothing about...



Joe?  As much as I like you as a poster, you have absolutely no idea about guns, Canadian firearms laws, and the rules to transfer...

[Renee]

Again Renee, are you aware that statistically speaking, your family has a greater chance of falling victim to any firearms you possess than them being used for defense?  I take the safety and security of my family just as seriously yet I don't own a gun.  Why?  Because I don't want to bring WEAPONS into my home that INCREASE their chance of victimization.



I do see it as fear and paranoia because THAT'S WHY YOU OWN A FUCKING GUN.



I don't need the media to tell me a damn thing Renee.  They just flash body bags and grieving loved ones and I get the message loud and clear.  What if it was your child shot up at school or in a nightclub?  Would you feel differently about guns then?  I bet you would.



I also read the second amendment and it talks about bearing arms for the purposes of establishing a militia should the government get out of line.  What it doesn't say is you have the right to sleep with a cold piece of steel under your pillow at night because you're fucking scared of the boogeyman.

I hate to say it but you need to take some fucking valium. Unfortunately that won't do anything for your self-righteous "I know more than you" attitude.



To answer your question full of emotional rhetoric.....NO, I wouldn't feel differently about guns if I lost a loved one to "gun violence", just like I wouldn't feel differently about cars if they got run over in the street. My anger would be directed toward the individual behind the wheel or the individual pulling the trigger. Thats how a rational person thinks.....Get a fucking clue. Your prissy Aussie boyfriend asked me the same illogical question years ago and got the same answer.



I hate to break the the news to you but I have actually a member of my family who was shot and wounded. I was 12 years olds and it was my father. He was called in on a domestic at an apartment building and some wife beating scumbag fired a shitty 9mm thru a doorway before my father and his partner had time to identify themselves. He was struck in the left shoulder and right thigh. He nearly bled to death in the ambulance.



You have no clue what it's like when a police officer shows up at your door at 11:30 at night and tells your mom that she needs to come to the hospital NOW. You have no idea what it's like being a child and not knowing if your father is coming home because his job puts him in the line of fire. I can tell you now.....it ain't a barrel of laughs.



BUT do you think anyone in my family including my dad, blames guns for the actions of a scumbag populace???? No they don't, because we are all very aware of the stupidity and vile nature of human race. As the old saying goes "people kill people" and that's how it fucking works.



So you can take your little emotionally diversionary question about my kids and guns and shove it up your ass.



As for the 2nd Amendment, being Canadian I doubt you even know what it means or it's implications. Unlike your "Charter of Rights" which is a wholely government generated piece of paper that grants rights and can suspend those rights, the US Constitution is a document that safeguards the rights of the people that are acknowledged to be "unalienable". The 2nd Amendment springs from the "unalienable" right to "life". It is a right....no, THEE right that enables every citizen to protect their life. So if you want to be irresponsible enough to sleep with a gun or store it under your bed or keep stored properly, it is your right to take that responsibility into your own hands.



This isn't fucking Canada or Australia so if you can't wrap that loopy nanny state head of yours around that fact, then that's tough shit. People always complain about how Americans think they are so much different than our other ex-colonial cousins.....why......because we ARE. The birth of our nation which shaped our "national psychology" made us that way so stop trying to apply your values and mindset to something you obviously don't understand.



Besides what the hell are you pissing and moaning about? This whole thing gives you Canadians a big excuse to look down your noses at your savage neighbors to the south....after hockey, isn't that your national fucking pastime?



BTW, here is another example of how gun control works so well.



"A British member of Parliament was killed Thursday when a man shot and stabbed her near Leeds, police said, but there were conflicting reports about the man's possible motivation."



http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/16/report-british-lawmaker-wounded-in-shooting-stabbing.html">//http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/16/report-british-lawmaker-wounded-in-shooting-stabbing.html



In this case the victim (a member of Parliament no less) was shot and STABBED. Thankfully knives are also heavily regulated in the UK.